 Genetech Doctor, Things can be done with Genetech |
  |
 Sep 2 2007, 06:03 PM
Post
#1
|
|
|
Neophyte Runner  Group: Members Posts: 2,159 Joined: 12-April 07 From: Ork Underground Member No.: 11,440  |
Ok here is a Doctor who has the skills and the shops needed to do some self improvements.
Due to he is building his own geneware availability limits do not count, and costs are halved. The half costs for building your own, is in RAW, the no available limits is a rule that has been discussed with several DM's. This character has two qualities, 1-Genecrafted which gives a 20 cost reduction in any Genecrafted items, and 2-Genetic Heritage which gives another 20 reduction in costs. Costs of Genetech items is reduced by 40 % for the Genecrafted quality and Genetic Heritage and 50 % for building his down Genetech, as per the discussions here on this,,the actual costs is 30 % of the costs in the Augmentation, ie it is 20% + 10 %+50% = 90% cost reduction ie 10% of costs. The Genetech work took place in "PreGame" so the time it took for all the work to be done is a discussion not for this thread. The back story on the character will incorporate the time it took. Some of the Bioware items were done using Genetech, Augmentation page 93 under Animal Features "Most of the functional changes available through biotech (page 61) are also possible through transgenic alteration for comparable Essence and nuyen costs but longer treatment times (typically several months)." To me the Symbionts did not fall into the bioware items that could be done using Genetech. While he was "tanked" he used the VR of the various shops to perform the work/adjustment/care needed, Augmentation page 125, Remote Medical Operations "In the wireless world, virtually all medical equipment is capable of being remotely operated......Remote operations through a medical shop (even a mobile medical shop) are performed much more easily, and do not suffer the -2 penalty. Further more these kinds of equipment are intended to be used in VR mode, and Biotech skills are considered Vehicle skills for the purpose of the control rig cyberware when used through a medical shop or medical facility." Yes he can work on medical things, and has some ability to work in VR/Matrix, yes he will not be the Nova hot hacker/decker but he was not designed to be one. Rule 1. No Discussion of the Time it would take for creation or implantation? of Genetech items, in this thread. Rule 2. No Discussion of additional items/things needed for the care etc, this is pregame, not in game. Rule 3. No Discussion of limits/obstacles etc that in Your Game you would put into place to keep this character from being created. Race: Human Character Name: Herb Marcos Street Name: Doktor Body 2 Agility 3 Reaction 3 Strength 2 Charisma 2 Intuition 3 Logic 6 (8 ) Willpower 3 Edge 3 Initiative 6(7) Initiative Pass 2 Essence 2.3 Skills Medicine 6 (Genetics) Cybertechnology 4 (Bioware) Computer 3 Data Search 3 Hacking 3 Dodge 4 Perception 4 Cybercombat 2 First Aid 4 (Combat Wounds) Pistols 2 (Semi Automatics) Automatics 2 Software 1 Knowledge Medicine 4 (6) Genetics 4 (6) Bioware 4 (6) Nanoware 4 (6) Cyberware 4 (6) Ork Underground 4 (6) Ork Underground Gangs 4 (6) Ork Underground Politics 4 (6) Languages English N Or’Zet 4 (6) Contacts (Fixer) 3/3 Biomedical Fixer 5/5 Genecrafted Genetic Heritage SINer (Criminal) Sensitive Neural Structure Sensitive System Allergy Mild, Uncommon Genetic Optimization Logic Reprint Genewipe EPE PuSHeD EPE Reakt EPE Sych EPE Qualia Transgenic Alteration-Animal Features Cat (tail, ears, fur) Clean Metabolism Skin Pigmentation Nictitating Membranes Tactile Sensitivity Cerebral Booster 2 Mnemonic Enhancer 2 Synaptic Booster 1 Cat's Eyes Sensitive Skin Cybertechnology Shop Medical Shop Genetics Shop Note removed the Type O quality but added Genetic Heritage, also changed essence level. Edit removed Reception Enhancer 3, EchoLocation, Enhanced Pheromone Receptors 3, Hearing Enhancement, Vocal Range Extender and Symbiotes 3. Cerebral Booster 2, Mnemonic Enhancer 2 and Synaptic Booster 1 have been installed by someone other than the Doktor nor were they "grown" by him. Changed the stats and essence to reflect the neurowares changes. |
 |
 
|
|
Sep 2 2007, 06:51 PM
Post
#2
|
|
|
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,246 Joined: 8-June 07 Member No.: 11,869 |
You need a medical facility to construct bioware from components (p. 126), I would think genetech needs a medical facility too. It's still only 200k though, still a good plan.
|
|
|
|
|
Sep 2 2007, 07:00 PM
Post
#3
|
|
|
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
What exactly is it you're wanting us to discuss? Are you looking for a pat on the back, mechanical problems that don't fall under your three rules, or what?
|
|
|
|
|
Sep 2 2007, 08:00 PM
Post
#4
|
|
|
Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,159 Joined: 12-April 07 From: Ork Underground Member No.: 11,440 |
@Buster the RAW does not say that. Geneware is not technically bioware.
Augmentation Under Gene Therapy page 129 "...if not performed in a proper clinical environment (e.g. hospital with genetic capabilities, or elite private or shadow clinics)" From the description of making and installing bioware, you are creating a bioware item then force growing it in a artificial environment. Under Geneware, you perform a diagnoses, then perform the gene therapy, then the individual is "tanked" for the duration of the treatment. Basically the patient is growing the geneware item inside them self. That is why I included a genetics shop to craft/research the therapy. Question is what types of medical facilities have a "healing tank" like the one mentioned above? To me most medical facilities would and so would a medical shop. To me it is a 2070 version of an Intensive Care Unit etc. @James McMurray things like the above that I am having with Buster. :) Changes to the set of skills? or suggestions for improvements to the set of skills, etc. |
|
|
|
|
Sep 2 2007, 08:24 PM
Post
#5
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 394 Joined: 19-May 03 From: In your base eating your food. Member No.: 4,607 |
Catboys! Uh it must be a dark future if people are still called Herb. ;)
|
|
|
|
|
Sep 2 2007, 08:43 PM
Post
#6
|
|||
|
Target Group: Members Posts: 67 Joined: 15-June 04 From: Richmond, BC Member No.: 6,405 |
First things first, the above quotes, to me at least, break this entire idea. You are here proposing a character built, in part, on a GM-fiat,but for some reason you don't want people to discuss that? Secondly, I have never gamed with a GM who would allow a character to build their own items pre-game and get that oh-so-essential 50%. If one were able to do that, as fast as you can spit people will be trying to claim all sorts of Street Value adjustments to prices pre-game to save themselves precious build points and nuyen. Just opens the door to far too much player abuse of the system as a whole. As for the character - if he is so capable of crafting and administering all these genetreatments, why is he even shadowrunning? The guy could be making a mint working in a shadow clinic, with much less threat to his personal health. Above all else, the most glaring problem is Herr Doktor's reason for running the shadows. Right now, with those skillsets, he should be patching up and splicing runners in a shadow clinic, not doing it in his basement so he can go catch some bullets later. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Sep 2 2007, 09:02 PM
Post
#7
|
|
|
Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,159 Joined: 12-April 07 From: Ork Underground Member No.: 11,440 |
@de4dmeta1
The rules for building your own gear, has been in the RAW for several iterations of the Shadowrun rules. Just like how many players know that the smartgun camera in there smartgun installed on the weapon, can be upgraded with things like Low Light etc. It is in the current RAW. As for why he is a shadow runner, again that is in the back story. Yes he could but look at his SINer(criminal), also why has he changed his appearance totally? He could be shadow runner due to his extreme choices in gene therapies. Same reason could be applied to a similar skilled hacker,, he could make a mint working for the corporations etc. The reason the rules are posted, is because I have seen similar things posted and it becomes too many postings on one of the three rules or all of them. Each GM gets to make the call on what is or is not included IG. But if the GM rules against what is allowed as per RAW he had better be able to explain why, like Knasser has explained why TM's are not in his campaigns. Not picking on you Knasser just using you as a good example of the reasons why some GM's do not allow everything in RAW. Some GM's and players were not familiar with the rule of building your own gear etc. As for the RAW on medical care, he can still practice medicine(genetics) via VR. :D So who says he is not making a mint, along with shadow running. :D |
|
|
|
|
Sep 2 2007, 09:09 PM
Post
#8
|
|||
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 394 Joined: 19-May 03 From: In your base eating your food. Member No.: 4,607 |
They mocked his research, now he's going to show them? We'll see who's laughing then? :D |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Sep 2 2007, 09:18 PM
Post
#9
|
|
|
Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,159 Joined: 12-April 07 From: Ork Underground Member No.: 11,440 |
@Droconis
So close so very close. :D Transhumans Rule!!!! :D |
|
|
|
|
Sep 2 2007, 10:43 PM
Post
#10
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 615 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,895 |
Also as a side note:
The build repair rules do NOT allow you to design inventions. You will have to ask your gm, the 'cost' for the blueprints for all of the Genetech you are wanting to do to yourself... Also personally I would have to say during the 'hospitilization' time of the treatment time, the 'patient' isn't going to be doing anything, not only are the 'tanked' to me they would be more then likely drugged / etc, to block pain and keep the brain from doing anything. It would be a complete 'comatose' state. Also as mentioned Gentech is NOT bioware... it's essence loss may be treated as essence loss from bioware, but that is a different statement. Qualitys or Flaws that effect bioware would NOT effect genetech. |
|
|
|
|
Sep 2 2007, 10:55 PM
Post
#11
|
|||
|
Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
The Type-O Quality only applies to normal, non-cultured, off-the-shelf bioware. Not cultured stuff or genetech. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Sep 2 2007, 11:05 PM
Post
#12
|
|
|
Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,159 Joined: 12-April 07 From: Ork Underground Member No.: 11,440 |
@Fortune
Where does it say that? reference please. Genetech is not cultured either. |
|
|
|
|
Sep 2 2007, 11:20 PM
Post
#13
|
|||
|
Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
|
||
|
|
|
||
|
Sep 2 2007, 11:27 PM
Post
#14
|
|||
|
Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,159 Joined: 12-April 07 From: Ork Underground Member No.: 11,440 |
@fortune please look at this
He has genetech not bioware. None of the genetic therapies he has are cultured. I have yet to have seen anywhere that Type O does not affect the essence loss via genetech. If you have please reference it. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Sep 2 2007, 11:35 PM
Post
#15
|
|
|
Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Genetech is not Bioware! Genetech merely uses the Bioware mechanics to determine Essense loss, but nowhere does it state that Genetech is actually Bioware. Especially not off-the-rack, basic bioware.
|
|
|
|
|
Sep 2 2007, 11:46 PM
Post
#16
|
|
|
Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,159 Joined: 12-April 07 From: Ork Underground Member No.: 11,440 |
@Fortune
Cultured bioware a sample is taken from the host subject, then force grown to more correctly match the neural patterns etc, from a posting by Synner in the Augmentation Q&A topic. Genetech is not cultured, nor force grown. Once the process is started, the host's own body grows the new genetech items. Genetech does not come in grades or cultured states. Ip so facto it is not cultured nor delta grade. So the part about Type O not applying to cultured bioware is correct, the genetech is neither cultured or delta grade. No where does it state that Genetech does not benefit from Type O either. So until someone of Authority (Synner, etc) over this says either way, it is a mute issue. |
|
|
|
|
Sep 2 2007, 11:46 PM
Post
#17
|
|||||
|
Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Maybe you need to review what Type-O organs are. They are the base, non-allergenic organ stock that is used for transplants.
|
||||
|
|
|
||||
|
Sep 2 2007, 11:48 PM
Post
#18
|
|||
|
Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
It isn't a moot issue. The rules are quite clear. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Sep 2 2007, 11:48 PM
Post
#19
|
|||||
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 615 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,895 |
@wearzmanyskins re-read the one Fortune posted: "Off the rack, basic bioware is considered delta grade for purposes of interacting with a type O body (i.e., reduce Essence Costs by half, though nuyen prices remain the same)." THE ONLY EFFECT Type O system has is that off the shelf generic bioware counts as delta grade (essence cut in half). If it isnt off the shelf generic bioware, Type O has no effect. Also as mentioned before.. Genetech is NOT bioware... Qualities that effect Bioware do NOT effect genetech... |
||||
|
|
|
||||
|
Sep 2 2007, 11:53 PM
Post
#20
|
|||
|
Target Group: Members Posts: 67 Joined: 15-June 04 From: Richmond, BC Member No.: 6,405 |
I am well aware of the rules for building your own gear. The point of contention is that, as far as I can tell, they're all meant for use in-game - show me where it says that you can make all the relavent skill checks during character creation, and I'll consider the matter settled. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Sep 2 2007, 11:56 PM
Post
#21
|
|||
|
Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
This does not state that Genetech is the same as Bioware. Merely that the Essense loss from genetech comes from the Bioware side of the calculation (as nanotech reduces cyber Essence loss) As an aside, this is an unwarranted complication brought about by splitting the Essence hole calculation. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Sep 3 2007, 12:02 AM
Post
#22
|
|||||
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 394 Joined: 19-May 03 From: In your base eating your food. Member No.: 4,607 |
That's an old trick loading up on "difficult" items at character creation. Stuff that requires extra time, money, or rolls to aquire. I must admit that I'm guilty of that. I've always loaded up on APDS at character creation because I don't feel the need to roleplay the acquisition later. I've always had later access to the stuff I just prefer to get it all up front. |
||||
|
|
|
||||
|
Sep 3 2007, 12:18 AM
Post
#23
|
|||
|
Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Sure, but your character is not actually making (using the Armorer Skill) the APDS pre-game. It is usually assumed that anything requiring actual rolls (like construction, etc) be done after chargen ends and the game actually starts. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Sep 3 2007, 12:20 AM
Post
#24
|
|||||||
|
Target Group: Members Posts: 67 Joined: 15-June 04 From: Richmond, BC Member No.: 6,405 |
I'm still not sure where it says you can make build-repair tests during character creation, though. All I've read from SR4 (p.125 specifically) makes it seem as though it's only an available option once the character is finished and in-game. |
||||||
|
|
|
||||||
|
Sep 3 2007, 12:27 AM
Post
#25
|
|||||||||||||
|
Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,159 Joined: 12-April 07 From: Ork Underground Member No.: 11,440 |
Even paying full essence costs the character is still viable, he has essence left, and then he only pays 10% of cost due to taking Genetic Heritage. From this thread http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?show...entation&st=150
Note what Synner replied to Dancers question above. From this part of the thread http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?show...entation&st=250
Note what it takes to cultured bioware. From the above quotes, genetech is not a sample of tissue force grown outside the host. So It can not be cultured. Is Genetech off the rack ware? It does not come in grades. Genetech inserts itself into the hosts body, resulting in the bioware essence lost. Despite all of the above quotes Synner never directly answers the question the question of does genetech gain anything from Type O quality. Does Biocompatability-cyberware reduce the essence loss from cybernanoware? |
||||||||||||
|
|
|
||||||||||||
|
|
Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: 18th April 2024 - 10:47 PM |
Topps, Inc has sole ownership of the names, logo, artwork, marks, photographs, sounds, audio, video and/or any proprietary material used in connection with the game Shadowrun. Topps, Inc has granted permission to the Dumpshock Forums to use such names, logos, artwork, marks and/or any proprietary materials for promotional and informational purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not affiliated with the Dumpshock Forums in any official capacity whatsoever.