 Need suggestions, player wants to make a deal |
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 Sep 5 2007, 04:33 PM
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#1
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Genuine Artificial Intelligence  Group: Members Posts: 4,019 Joined: 12-June 03 Member No.: 4,715  |
I need to tap the collective Dumpshock consciousness for ideas.
A player wants something, and is willing to make a deal for it, but I'm not sure what to give or take. The situation: The PCs are in a gang-type setting. They all belong to one gang, and there's a big rival gang trying to kill them. After much aggression over many sessions, things are really coming to a head and the enemy gang is going to attack their turf in an all-out assault with superior numbers and the PCs are going to have to defend themselves. One PC in particular is a mage who's character has always been very protective of the other members. His player wants to know if there's anything he can do to gain an edge for the team in the coming fight. The player has told me that the character would pretty much be willing to sell his soul to guarantee a victory. Now I'm willing to make deals with players. ex: Cut the programming time in half in return for an addiction to Long Haul, etc. So what could I give him? High force spirit? What kind of an edge (unconventional ideas welcome!) could he gain? And what do I take in return? Geas? Loss of magic? Magic flaws? (again, unconventional ideas are fine here too) Help me out, please. Get creative; get mean. :-) |
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Sep 5 2007, 04:35 PM
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#2
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Deus Absconditus Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,742 Joined: 1-September 03 From: Downtown Seattle, UCAS Member No.: 5,566 |
Sounds like it's time for SOMEONE to pick up their first Corruption points and a new friend: Mr. Blood Spirit!
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Sep 5 2007, 04:40 PM
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#3
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,246 Joined: 8-June 07 Member No.: 11,869 |
If he's that desperate, have a free blood spirit overhear their conversation and offer to teach him blood metamagic. Have the blood spirit offer to pay the karma cost for learning it in exchange for...certain services. Invoking a bunch of blood spirits would win their fight, but would open up a whole new campaign of trouble. |
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Sep 5 2007, 04:46 PM
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#4
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 609 Joined: 13-August 07 Member No.: 12,615 |
I agree. Allow him to enter into a Spirit Pact with, shall we say, certain obligations, and be sure there are consequences if he fails to meet them.
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Sep 5 2007, 04:56 PM
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#5
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Deus Absconditus Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,742 Joined: 1-September 03 From: Downtown Seattle, UCAS Member No.: 5,566 |
That said, let me put out a few less dire ideas for you.
1) He gets some help from local organized crime. Doesn't matter which kind, because in this regard they all act very alike. They offer some assistance in the little gang fight in exchange for him owing them. They start to collect on his debt by having him move packages, do jobs here and there, etc. If he starts to resist, they should note he owes them, and they could always make sure an accident befalls one of his friends in the gang. This is how people end up being driven under by the mob - nickled-and-dimed. To keep this being a bad thing rather than having him make new friends, make sure the shit always rolls downhill, so to speak: he has to do crappy jobs that are dangerous for little to no pay. He catches the heat from the Star. And when they're done with him, they hang him out to dry. If you're feeling nicer, maybe they eventually take a shine to the gang. 2) If he's telling people this, maybe a corporate guy hears about it from a fixer. Maybe the corp says, "Okay. We can give you some 'ware. It's untested, but you're willing to do ANYTHING, right?" Or maybe it's a souped-up drug, like "Ultra-Zen" or something - ramps up his magic, but has aftereffects like Kamikaze. 3) Have some corrupt cops take a glance his way. They've heard about the brewing gang war, and they offer to maybe crack down on the opposition, providing he starts selling out people he's close to, but doesn't like much. Just to get their arrest numbers up. It can start with Scumbly Joe down the way, who nobody likes. Then maybe they want info on his neighbors. Eventually, the cops make a play to start arresting/killing his friends. |
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Sep 5 2007, 04:59 PM
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#6
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 609 Joined: 13-August 07 Member No.: 12,615 |
Agreed. A "Deal With the Devil" does not neccessarily have to be with a literal devil.
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Sep 5 2007, 05:03 PM
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#7
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 993 Joined: 5-December 05 From: Crying in the wilderness Member No.: 8,047 |
A pact with a shadow spirit, the literal deal with the devil, has alot of mileage. Ultimatly it could twist him into destroying his gang as the classic 'destroys what he loves.', before ripping him apart.
However the option of a syndicate/major gang picking him up for his magical talent and giving the muscle to beat down the oppersition, has merit. Particularly with Tamous... A corp scooping up the entire gang before the face off or giving serious firepower as long as the mage signs on the dotted line with complimentary kink bomb. Edit: Damn it, must type faster. What Adarael said. |
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Sep 5 2007, 05:10 PM
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#8
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Deus Absconditus Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,742 Joined: 1-September 03 From: Downtown Seattle, UCAS Member No.: 5,566 |
One of the things I've always really liked about SR is the general feel that you always pay for your decisions.
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Sep 5 2007, 05:13 PM
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#9
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 609 Joined: 13-August 07 Member No.: 12,615 |
Yes, whether in terms of nuyen, or other things....
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Sep 5 2007, 06:26 PM
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#10
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 986 Joined: 29-June 07 Member No.: 12,093 |
May I suggest a pre-emptive strike? I know, it's my solution to everything but that's because it usually works. Casting high force spirits (over summoning that is) would be a good start on the desperate path.
That rival gang has to have their own enemies too, even if they are just a handful of survivors. He's also a Magician and they are rare. Have him sign a contract with a corp, some wagemage work (plus the gang too) in exchange for their fire support. Like a few combat drones. The alternative solution would be to hire some demo experts, rig up their 'alamo' to blow up and so on. Not the most subtlest of moves, but if you could engineer a way out of the building or lure them in... I'd consider Spirit Pacts to be a truly desperate act. So if that seems like a good extension to your campaign, you can work that in after they suffer some setbacks. Like the fact that the Rival Gang sends in its own pre-emptive ambushes and disables some key piece of defense, wrecks the vehicles, etc. If he's a bastard of a mage, he could do something horrid. Like say kidnapping someone fairly important and insured and alerting Lone Star or the corp he belongs to about the kidnapping. As long as they have a way out they can then lure the cavalry into the Rival Gang's homebase or their own, while the firefight is still taking place or just before. |
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Sep 5 2007, 06:44 PM
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#11
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 944 Joined: 19-February 03 Member No.: 4,128 |
When you say a big gang is after them. how big?
Rather than an actual deal with the devil, how about making it a little more ambigous. At the height of the gang on gang fight, the Cutters or the Ancients show up and massacre both gangs and take their turf. The players get away relatively unscathed, but are among the few that get away at all. The mage's price is he takes a horrific wound and loses a point of magic because of it. Rather than the char dealing with a spirit, the player is dealing... with you. |
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Sep 5 2007, 06:53 PM
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#12
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
Is this intended to be the climax of a campaign, or will you be continuing on afterwords? The reason I as is that you have to make the price of the deal count, not just from a character standpoint, but within the game itself.
Does he have a decent Edge rating? Maybe he could summon a spirit that trades him his immortal soul (Edge and Essence) for temporary luck (double the amount of Edge lostgoes into a pool that can be used as Edge on other people). |
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Sep 5 2007, 07:06 PM
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#13
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Genuine Artificial Intelligence Group: Members Posts: 4,019 Joined: 12-June 03 Member No.: 4,715 |
[warning: I explain what's going on a bit more for the benefit of people who want to know. I try not to let this become a gaming story, but it toes the line. If you don't want to hear about my campaign, and I won't blame you, just skip to the end.] Actually, the campaign started with the rival gang blowing up their headquarters and killing all members of the gang except for the PCs. So, the preemptive strike already happened, and the PCs were on the wrong end of it. The only reason they lasted this long is because the rival gang didn't know they were still alive. Now they've figured out who's been messing with them for the last few months and they're moving in to finish the job. This campaign is sort of an underdog story. :-D The PCs have spent the last 10 sessions kicking the legs out from under the enemy gang, turning their allies against them, building allies of their own, taking out key figures, etc. I don't want to get into the details, 'cause gaming stories are annoying, but they're not standing alone in this. And they're not going to kill the rival gang with this fight, their goal is just to survive long enough for some corporate reinforcements to arrive. Otherwise, I really like the corp angle, but since they're already dealing with the Azzies just to get those reinforcements I'd say their situation is truly desperate. Lone Star is a good suggestion, but there's already some LS stuff going on that might not fit too well. Dealing with that is going to be their next major task. They're already doing the enemy-of-my-enemy thing, although not without it's price. They could make a deal with tanamous, but they've already promised all the bodies to a pack of ghouls who will be keeping an eye on the sewers for them. He's not really a bastard of a mage, he's more of a friendly grandpa type, which really makes the soul-selling angle appeal to me. The magic drug option is definitely one I hadn't considered. And no one's sold their soul to organized crime yet, that could work. The blood spirit thing is cool, but wouldn't he need Sacrifice, Invoking, and Invoking Blood Spirit metamagics to get a big scary blood spirit? Just to let you know, the whole theme of the campaign has been the PCs trying to dismantle a group (the enemy gang) who is dramatically more powerful than them and will squash them in a direct confrontation. They will (dice gods willing) eventually succeed, but they're going to have to make a lot of deals and do a lot of favors for a lot of people to get there. If they're very smart about it, though, and play all the sides just right, they might well come out ahead. This coming confrontation is marking a major turning point in the campaign where the PCs have turned the tides enough for the conflict to come out in the open and for them to have a tiny amount of defensible "turf" again, although the enemy will still have vastly more territory and members for a while. That said, there's still a lot of room for this to go poorly or well, and one PC is offering up a lot to make sure it goes well. Some really good ideas, here. Thanks everybody. Please feel free to keep 'em coming, I've got some time before I have to settle this. |
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Sep 5 2007, 07:08 PM
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#14
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Genuine Artificial Intelligence Group: Members Posts: 4,019 Joined: 12-June 03 Member No.: 4,715 |
This is a good point. This isn't the end of the campaign. Both the player and I want the price to be something that he has to deal with as an ongoing thing. Something like Edge loss is a good idea, but that's a price that he can pay and be done with. True, his stats are lower, but the deal is still basically over and resolved. We want something that he has to suffer with for a longer period. |
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Sep 5 2007, 07:17 PM
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#15
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Genuine Artificial Intelligence Group: Members Posts: 4,019 Joined: 12-June 03 Member No.: 4,715 |
There are 9 PCs (plus their NPC allies/deals/etc) The enemy is roughly 400. The PCs spend most of their time changing disguises. ;) Like I said, they survived the first major chunk of the campaign by hiding and pretending to be dead. Eventually, though, the bad guys figure someone is picking on them and bust out the divination. I'm very interested to see how thing turns out for them. |
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Sep 5 2007, 11:59 PM
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#16
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,288 Joined: 4-September 06 From: The Scandinavian Federation Member No.: 9,300 |
Ouch! If I were the players I would try to infiltrate the big gang and take over ;) Even their powerful leader(s) is as vulnerable as a child when asleep, especially if the PCs manage to get into position as guards (not likely). Even so, a pissed off mage is a terrible enemy. He can find you anywhere, spy on you, and assassinate from a distance without most non-mages detecting them. Unless the gang leader has more than one shaman in their group (unlikely but possible), the mage could concievably strike at the leader when the Shaman is otherwise engaged. A few spirits could go a long way to achieve that. Basically the PCs need a heck of alot of legwork to pull this off more than a deal with a devil. If all else fail, the Yakuza is probably possible to ally with - in return for them pretty much ruling the neighbourhood afterwards. Although why they would ally with the PCs and not "the 300" is beyond me... what do they really have to offer? |
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Sep 6 2007, 12:44 AM
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#17
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 615 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,895 |
I still go with the almost perfect example..
If hes a mage, expressing thoughts that strong... its heard on the astral.. A friendly free-spirit (possesion) type agrees to help them... not really a 'pact' for say just friendly neighboring help.. Spirit will take care of the gang.. (astral gateway and possesion is such a fun thing) Mage, will help out the spirit. (perhaps sacrificing karma, and/or perhaps just doing things the spirit 'couldnt') If the spirit plays well.... the 'cost' will be a long time coming (at least obviously)... initially its stopping drug dealers X.. (rivals cutting into the now 'possed' gang busniess)... but something the mage wouldnt feel bad about... Then stopping some people doing 'protection rackets' (again edging on the possed gang turf (or jsut something else the spirit wants)... again not something 'bad' but a little more agreesive, rather then protective.. Slowly over time, the mage has to do more and more to keep the spirit happy ... at some time realizing having to make the choice of sacrificing the gang..... or fighting the spirit (with the gang backing him)... In the end, the pact merely buys the mage (and buddies) time to build their characters.... Aka US/Russia during WW2.... Both sides new the ultimately were going to have issues... but liked the altenative less. If done well, the mage intially thinks it not that bad, and slowly over time, is either corrupted by the spirit and becomes 'a bad person', or realizes that the spirit has deep hooks in him and that it is going to come to a sacrifice what he belives in or fight the spirit (and the gang)... Corp contact could do much the same also... but with a 'mage' I would see it being a spirit being the most 'in character' |
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Sep 6 2007, 04:16 PM
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#18
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Genuine Artificial Intelligence Group: Members Posts: 4,019 Joined: 12-June 03 Member No.: 4,715 |
I'm not going to go into why they don't infiltrate the enemy, or why so-and-so is allying with someone else, 'cause it's hours and hours of backstory and explanation. That would become a gaming story, and nobody wants that. I've come too close already. Suffice to say, my players trust that I have my reasons and logic, that there is consistency in the world, and that if and when they find it all out then why someone made a certain decision with the information they had at the time will make sense. Believe me, getting other people in a position to help them in their stupid suicidal cause has been the biggest challenge, and no one has done it lightly or without serious incentive. Thanks for all the suggestions. |
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Sep 7 2007, 10:56 AM
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#19
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 394 Joined: 19-May 03 From: In your base eating your food. Member No.: 4,607 |
Cut a deal with the cops then have the PCs use themselves as bait to get the other gang into a trap. I'm sure the cops would love to have one less gang to deal with.
If the cops won't play ball have the PCs pretend to be the rival gang. Cause a bunch of high profile problems then have the heat rain down upon the rival gang. It sounds like your PCs have a good grasp of disguises to pull this off. If you're going into some kind of fair fight where it's PCs vs the other guys head to head then they've already done something wrong. Having someone else clean up your mess is much more efficient and satisfying. Worse case scenario have a sammy PC challenge the rival gang leader for control. It's a long shot, he probably didn't get to the position by luck but it sure beats the barbarians at the gate scenario. |
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Sep 18 2007, 09:37 AM
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#20
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 573 Joined: 17-September 07 Member No.: 13,319 |
If the mage Stunballs his buddies, tosses them in a van, and drives away, then when they wake up... they're alive, and the opposition has taken over their turf. He's saved their lives, at least for today, at the cost of their cause and their trust.
If the mage wants an actual battlefield victory, then overcasting, burning Edge, and drugs with side effects are classic high-cost tactics. Is he hermetic or shamanic? If the latter, then maybe there's some way that he can devote himself more totally to a totem spirit, acquiring limitations according to the totem's theme, in return for a one-time power boost. If he's hermetic, then he should look up spells on non-reputable grimoires, ones with notes such as "I thought of this, but it's untested because I've never been desperate enough to actually try it; if you cast it and survive with your sanity, then let me know if it worked". Blood spirits are bad. If you know the Earthdawn crossover backstory: Horrors are worse. He could make a side deal with the Azzies, that any fallen PCs get made into cyberzombies. I'd encourage the player to come up with ideas and run them by you; reward player creativity! |
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