 Say it ain't so!, Bioware costs Essence?! |
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  Sep 10 2007, 12:03 AM
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#1
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Runner  Group: Members Posts: 2,654 Joined: 29-October 06 Member No.: 9,731  |
I dropped by the local bookstore today, noticed they had a copy of SR4, and snagged it. Giving the new (well, new to me, anyway) character creation rules a preliminary skim, I noticed this on page 84 under "Cyberware and Bioware:"
Bioware now costs Essence? Why? Please tell me this is a misprint. |
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Sep 10 2007, 12:06 AM
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#2
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
Streamlining.
They do cost Essence, but only half the listed cost if you have more Cyberware than Bioware. If you have more Bioware, the Cyberware costs are halved instead. Don't ask me why they did that. Should have just cut Bioware Essence costs in half to begin with and called it a day. You have to remember that the main point of Essence is to limit how many implants you get for your character. From a metagaming point of view, having Bioware eat up Essence makes total sense. Doubly so since Essence is also used to limit implants versus Magic, and even in the old system Bio Index affected Essence. So it's all just streamlined. It's that whole halving thing that completely negates any attempt to streamline the rules though. The exceptions are weird, bizarre situations crop up because of it, and there's no reason that Cyberware should have less impact on a character's system than Bioware. |
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Sep 10 2007, 12:11 AM
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#3
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 718 Joined: 10-September 05 From: Montevideo, in the elusive shadows of Latin America Member No.: 7,727 |
Welcome to Fourth ed! I didn't like that at first, but now I am quite happy with that and mostly everything else.
Good luck with converting some characters though! Cheers, Max |
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Sep 10 2007, 12:15 AM
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#4
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,654 Joined: 29-October 06 Member No.: 9,731 |
But why make it cost Essence at all? What was wrong with the Body Index system? Simpler doesn't necessarily mean better, and I'm not even sure the new system is any simpler. You still have to track two separate cumulative costs: one for cyberware and one for bioware.
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Sep 10 2007, 12:19 AM
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#5
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
Not really, only when calculating the Essence impact.
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Sep 10 2007, 12:21 AM
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#6
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
You can also get your bioware in different grades now, to help with the essence cost. Alternatively, you can take the 30 BP positive quality from Augmentation and all of your bioware will be considered delta grade.
As for why, it's definitely simpler. You're still tracking two numbers, but it's not as annoying as bioindex, since they both feed into the same final product. If you pick up Augmentation you'll see that Symbiotes, Genetech, and Nanoware also take essence. Basically, if it's a large change to your base body identity, it'll cost essence. Bioware and Genetech are all very low, since they're as natural as the scientists can make it. |
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Sep 10 2007, 12:47 AM
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#7
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
All of your non-cultured bioware will be Delta. ;) |
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Sep 10 2007, 02:25 AM
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#8
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Mr. Johnson Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,148 Joined: 27-February 06 From: UCAS Member No.: 8,314 |
How is one not less than human when bioware is implanted?
I suppose one could claim that one is more than human, but there's still a delta-humanity there. So I can see it. |
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Sep 10 2007, 02:52 AM
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#9
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Canon Companion Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 |
Can cultured bioware be had at a higher grade than standard? The FAQ says yes, but the bioware rules seem to indicate no, except that it doesn't spell it out explicitly like in geneware.
BTW, it is nano-cybernetics that cost Essense - nanoware do not cost Essense. |
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Sep 10 2007, 02:54 AM
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#10
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 7,089 Joined: 4-October 05 Member No.: 7,813 |
where do the bioware rules imply that cultured bioware doesn't come in grades?
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Sep 10 2007, 02:58 AM
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#11
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Yes. All Bioware comes in grades. |
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Sep 10 2007, 03:48 AM
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#12
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,228 Joined: 24-July 07 From: Canada Member No.: 12,350 |
I really don't understand why lots of people seem to freak out about this. I always perceived the whole "bio index" system as strange anyway. When I saw SR4 had bioware costing Essence my reaction was "finally." Remember, your Bio-index was based on your Essence anyway. When your Essence went down, so did your Bio-index. They were "joined at the hip" anyway, so why not just merge them together?
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Sep 10 2007, 07:55 AM
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#13
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,314 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Lisbon, Cidade do Pecado Member No.: 185 |
Two things to keep in mind regarding Bioware costing Essence:
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Sep 10 2007, 12:30 PM
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#14
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Slacker Extraordinaire Group: Retired Admins Posts: 337 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Ashburn, VA Member No.: 997 |
I was a little unsure when I first saw this, but given that 3rd edition's Bio Index was based off of Essence anyway... it didn't seem like too huge a change. I definately like only having to track a single number, and with the way costs (and the whole half-of-the lesser thing) are set up it seems to work just fine.
I'd like to get some clarification on the cultured bioware thing too. |
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Sep 10 2007, 02:14 PM
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#15
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,245 Joined: 27-April 07 From: Running the streets of Southeast Virginia Member No.: 11,548 |
My house rule clarification of cultured bioware...
If you have the Type O Trait, then all bioware (cultured for you & off-the-shelf stuff) is considered Delta grade. How's that for simple? |
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Sep 10 2007, 03:16 PM
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#16
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
It might be simple, but it still is, as you say, a house rule.
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Sep 10 2007, 07:59 PM
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#17
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Grand Master of Run-Fu Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,840 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Tir Tairngire Member No.: 178 |
I have to agree: halving the lowest of the two has got to be one of the sillier concepts of "streamlining" I've ever seen.
But anyway, here's a question. If you have the Type O Edge, what happens when you've got more bio than cyber? Is it halved yet again? Potentially taking things to four decimal places? |
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Sep 10 2007, 08:20 PM
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#18
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,706 Joined: 30-June 06 From: Fort Wayne, IN Member No.: 8,814 |
I can't remember where I read this, but it was saying that (with regards to game mechanics), anytime you start multiplying and dividing, you start adding complexities to the system...and for the most part, you start taking it out of the hands of the common gamer...
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Sep 10 2007, 08:27 PM
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#19
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Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490 |
...for one, because the essence index cap was 9 instead of 6 For example, you could have 3 Essence worth of Cyber and still implant up to 6 BI of bio. In 4th edition you are left with only the remaining 3 Essence for bio. Furthermore if you exceeded your essence index with Bioware, the implants were only more prone to overstress. On the other hand, if you exceed your 6 Essence, the character simply dies. So for a bioware/genetech heavy character, there is no break. Once you reach 6 essence worth, that is it whereas in 3rd ed a character could go up to 9, provided she had little or no chrome (a good example was my baseball throwing sammy Tomoe who had about 8 of her EI taken up by Bioware with almost no chrome outside of a couple of retinal mods) Bioware is also so bloody expensive as it is that I would never even consider Beta or even Alpha grade. Cain, I agree with you on the silliness of the "1/2 rule". The old index was not really all that unwieldy to figure out. |
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Sep 10 2007, 08:54 PM
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#20
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Slacker Extraordinaire Group: Retired Admins Posts: 337 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Ashburn, VA Member No.: 997 |
Is that right? Skipping past the fact that essence costs have been modified and that you really can't compare ware from the two editions point for point... You would be halving one of the two, wouldn't you? So wouldn't it be closer to 4 points of one and 4 (technically 3.99) of another, halved to 2 (1.995), to fill 6 essence? So the theoretical point comparison would be 8 to 9, wouldn't it? |
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Sep 11 2007, 12:45 AM
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#21
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Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490 |
...OK Ill give in to that in the case of an even mix of bio & cyber. "Effectively" one can get close to 6 essence worth of bio.
However for the character that is all bio, (like the example I mentioned) she does not gain this benefit and can only take a maximum of 5.99 in Bio implants instead of 9. That was one of the beauties of bioware and why, back then, I had no issue with the higher cost. Plain and simple, Bio was slick stuff. Now it is treated pretty much as a "wet" version of cyber (for lack of a better term) which takes away from a character's metahumanity even if it is cloned directly from her own genetic code. The book even applies the same grades (α, β, Δ) as for cyber. In the past the only way to get a reduction to Body Index impact was to have the implant cultured, and you could only do that with Standard Bioware. One more reason I oft find myself "looking backwards down the road" |
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Sep 11 2007, 02:28 AM
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#22
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Dude! 8) How do you do those? |
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Sep 11 2007, 11:58 AM
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#23
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,245 Joined: 27-April 07 From: Running the streets of Southeast Virginia Member No.: 11,548 |
ALT + XXXX number codes.
Can also use the character map in Windows to copy & paste those. |
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Sep 11 2007, 12:45 PM
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#24
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Yeah, thanks. I figured that was the case. I never think to use the character map thingie. :) |
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Sep 11 2007, 02:03 PM
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#25
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
If you can't multiply decimals, you're not welcome at my table anyway. ;) |
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