 Say it ain't so!, Bioware costs Essence?! |
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 Sep 12 2007, 06:47 PM
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#51
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Genuine Artificial Intelligence  Group: Members Posts: 4,019 Joined: 12-June 03 Member No.: 4,715  |
Ooh, I like that. I always wanted an essence of 60,000.
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Sep 12 2007, 06:52 PM
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#52
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 212 Joined: 30-November 04 Member No.: 6,858 |
Alternatively get a calculator.
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Sep 12 2007, 08:20 PM
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#53
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Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490 |
...just wait 'til another SURGE hits :grinbig: |
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Sep 12 2007, 08:43 PM
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#54
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Genuine Artificial Intelligence Group: Members Posts: 4,019 Joined: 12-June 03 Member No.: 4,715 |
Alright now, be honest. Who is a big dork and checked my math on the fractions thing? ;-)
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Sep 12 2007, 08:44 PM
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#55
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
sorry, i just had d&d flashbacks and walked away...
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Sep 12 2007, 09:10 PM
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#56
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
I did. :P |
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Sep 13 2007, 12:27 AM
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#57
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Grand Master of Run-Fu Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,840 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Tir Tairngire Member No.: 178 |
WHole numbers are streamlined. If multiplication is necessary, streamlined is multiplication by 2's and 5's and 10's, which most people can do in their heads (including GM's!) Don't forget, it takes almost as long to dissect a character as it does to build one. If you need a calculator to do so, you're taking up a lot of tedium on both the part of the player *and* the GM. Compare this to other tactical systems, like White Wolf's Scion or Savage Worlds, and you'll see how streamlined things really can be. Compare it to a *really* steamlined system, like Wushu or Risus or Capes, and four decimal places seems to be juts plain silly. Heck, I've never even theoretically had to go to four decimal places while playing ultra-crunch games, like GURPS or Champions. The second halving is wholly unnecessary, and just stupid. |
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Sep 13 2007, 01:00 AM
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#58
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
Huh. Silly me. I just do math. Never realized how complicated it was. :)
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Sep 13 2007, 01:08 AM
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#59
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
meh, i just round after each halving. sure, its not accurate, but it saves a bit of work ;)
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Sep 13 2007, 02:24 AM
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#60
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The back-up plan Group: Retired Admins Posts: 8,423 Joined: 15-January 03 From: San Diego Member No.: 3,910 |
Nowhere in the rules does it state that you must go out to 4 decimal points. If you want to and can do math in your head quickly, by all means, do so. If not, then round, and call it "Close enough." This is cybertechnology not rocket science. :)
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Sep 13 2007, 02:52 AM
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#61
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Grand Master of Run-Fu Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,840 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Tir Tairngire Member No.: 178 |
Rocket Science, no. Brain Surgery, yes. :P
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Sep 13 2007, 05:47 AM
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#62
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 349 Joined: 16-January 05 Member No.: 6,984 |
I prefer to think of cybertech as rocket surgery.
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Sep 13 2007, 12:03 PM
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#63
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
hmm, rocket powered cybertech anyone?
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Sep 13 2007, 02:15 PM
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#64
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
Go, go gadget cyberskates!
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Sep 13 2007, 05:34 PM
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#65
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Grand Master of Run-Fu Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,840 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Tir Tairngire Member No.: 178 |
But seriously, folks...
That statement is essentially toturi's argument that, if the book doesn't say I can't shoot down Z-O with a hold out and enough successes, then I can do it. Which has its own silliness attached to it. Besides, if you start rounding 0.0625 off, you're going to get a zero. So, any low-impact 'ware would become free in terms of essence. That opens up a whole can of worms I wouldn't want to touch. Zero is "close enough", but that doesn't mean it's workable. Even if we round up, we're screwing over the pleyrs who can take things to four decimal paces. Generally, they're munchkins or power players looking for every last edge they can find. James McMurray is a perfect example: he says he does the math, showing that he wants that 0.0005 ess for something. |
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Sep 13 2007, 05:45 PM
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#66
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 327 Joined: 28-January 06 Member No.: 8,209 |
If the original essence of 0.25 isn't cumbersome, then 0.0625 really isn't particularly either. For my own part, yes, I find the merged essence rules infinitely more convenient and less annoying than the old bio shock crap. In both cases, you're making your body less human. Why not have a unified system to do it, instead of multiple ratings driven differently by multiple things, with entirely separate rules for what they do to you? I have to admit, this entire discussion is making me agree more and more strongly with someone's comment before, that this is the point at which he'd tell his player "Get over it." If you object to SR4's rules that much, don't play it. :) |
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Sep 13 2007, 05:46 PM
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#67
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 212 Joined: 30-November 04 Member No.: 6,858 |
The words fuck off you dim wanker do spring to mind.
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Sep 13 2007, 05:46 PM
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#68
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 212 Joined: 30-November 04 Member No.: 6,858 |
Thats aimed at Cain
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Sep 13 2007, 05:49 PM
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#69
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Slacker Extraordinaire Group: Retired Admins Posts: 337 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Ashburn, VA Member No.: 997 |
I don't round. I just cut everything off at two decimal places. Does it mean that a careful planner can pack a little extra ware into a character? Yeah... but my players were rarely that efficient, and I don't mind if some people seem to have a tiny bit more chrome than others.
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Sep 13 2007, 05:50 PM
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#70
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
In SR3 there was a little known rule that stated that you did, indeed, round Essence costs up to the nearest 100th (two decimal places). So that 0.0625 cost would actually be a 0.07 cost. This applied to adept powers as well if memory serves (though I think that rule had you round up to the nearest 0.25). I tried looking for a similar rule in SR4 without much luck, but it seems a very reasonable house rule to me if you really have a problem with it.
Personally, I don't see that much of a difficult change between two decimal places and four decimal places. It's only a perception problem, really, and one someone else already pointed out with their "just multiply everything by 10,000" example. Sure, it would be nice if everything was dealt with in whole numbers, but the game already goes to two decimal places so... how is 0.0625 that much more difficult again? Especially when it only shows up with a precious few implants that have an x.x5 Essence cost, none of which are all that fantastic. |
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Sep 13 2007, 05:59 PM
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#71
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 327 Joined: 28-January 06 Member No.: 8,209 |
Orthoskin, Math SPU, Sleep Regulator, internal air tanks, cyber-gills; all very useful in their own ways. A bunch of non-full limb replacements (hands and half-arms/legs, for example), which - while you may not typically do as a voluntary procedure - are great for people with injuries. And, of course, someone will eventually remind you of cyber-breasts and cyber-penises, which are both 0.25 essence. And just to top it off, quite a few cyber-weapons of various types, though you typically see those paid for in capacity rather than essence. |
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Sep 13 2007, 06:05 PM
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#72
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Slacker Extraordinaire Group: Retired Admins Posts: 337 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Ashburn, VA Member No.: 997 |
If folks want to insult one another please do it privately.
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Sep 13 2007, 06:10 PM
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#73
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
Are you sure it doesn't just mean that I follow the rules and am not afraid of a little math? |
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 Sep 15 2007, 02:37 AM
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#74
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,654 Joined: 29-October 06 Member No.: 9,731 |
I know I'm going to regret asking this, but exactly what is "cyber" about breasts and penises? If biotech in 2070 can grow custom organs, why are we going to chrome for wangs and ta-tas? |
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Sep 15 2007, 03:02 AM
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#75
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ghostrider Group: Retired Admins Posts: 4,196 Joined: 16-May 04 Member No.: 6,333 |
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