 Worst abuse of Endowment, ever, With Inhabitation Goodness |
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 Sep 19 2007, 08:37 PM
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#1
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Midnight Toker  Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456  |
1) Conjure 2 Force 1 Inhabitation Ally spirits; make one with some cool powers that you'd like to have; the other doesn't matter.
2) Conjure a Great Form Guardian Spirit with Endowment 3) Project and have it endow you with Astral Form; Materialization/Possession is optional 4) Have the Ally with powers that you like Inhabit your now empty body. 5) Endow Endowment to the other Ally 6) Have it Endow you with Inhabitation 7) Inhabit your body with the Ally Spirit in it. 8)Repeat This is only slightly less cheesy than the other version, in which you just repeatedly Inhabit your own empty body for stat bonuses. |
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Sep 19 2007, 08:51 PM
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#2
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Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490 |
...shouldn't #8. be "Wash, Rinse, Repeat? :grinbig:
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Sep 19 2007, 08:52 PM
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#3
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,706 Joined: 30-June 06 From: Fort Wayne, IN Member No.: 8,814 |
If you can get that by your GM, more power to you!
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Sep 19 2007, 09:50 PM
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#4
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 993 Joined: 5-December 05 From: Crying in the wilderness Member No.: 8,047 |
sigh
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Sep 19 2007, 10:04 PM
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#5
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,180 Joined: 22-January 07 From: Rochester, NY Member No.: 10,737 |
Don't forget the extra cheese! *sigh* Jeeze, this is munchkiny... |
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Sep 19 2007, 10:13 PM
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#6
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
Am I the only one that suddenly had a visual related to that scene in Strange Days. Or maybe it's the kink turn that the Momhammerer thread has taken. Wait, can you feedback an AR feed to yourself?....oh man, I need to get some rest. My back's been killing me and I haven't been able to sleep more than an hour at a time since Sunday. Even with the Percocet. :dead:
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Sep 19 2007, 10:34 PM
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#7
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Target Group: Members Posts: 89 Joined: 8-September 07 From: Boston, England Member No.: 13,170 |
Ok, but what do you do if you get banished from your own body?
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Sep 19 2007, 10:38 PM
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#8
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
You can't banish someone who is Inhabiting. When you Inhabit a body, it becomes your body. And when you Inhabit a living body, you eat its soul and take all of its powers. When is why sacrificing an Ally with useful spirit powers in this manner give you those powers.
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Sep 19 2007, 10:43 PM
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#9
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 615 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,895 |
Seems to me since your ally spirit is occupying your body you can't per RAW |
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Sep 19 2007, 10:45 PM
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#10
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 615 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,895 |
You do NOT keep the abilities of the host... so you would NOT gain the powers of the spirit that was previously inhabiting your body, even if they above 'one spirit' in a vessel rule did not apply |
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Sep 19 2007, 10:49 PM
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#11
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 615 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,895 |
Also if you are being cheesy ... then both sides can..
Hmm you get to make force (0) you dont have force) *2 against hosts willpower + inutution... hmm zero dice... MAYBE you can make it with longshot rules, but better have maxxed edge and hope the other side rolls crappy. |
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Sep 19 2007, 10:57 PM
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#12
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 615 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,895 |
Hmm also even while 'projecting' atleast a porition of yoru spirit is tied to you body... (since damage to body... is damage to your 'spirit')... So when ally inhabitis your body... YOU DIE. |
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Sep 19 2007, 11:19 PM
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#13
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 615 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,895 |
Also it takes 'days per force' to do the inhabitation... One can project for hours per magic.... So you will be dead before the first inhabitiation is finished... Now that could be worked around if you could get another spirit with astral gateway... Also you will be using 2 services from the great spirit per day (to maintain astral gateway on yourself) plus 2 more services per day, to keep endow endowment up on your ally... So even if everything else is ignored you are looking at 4+ services per day (and if allowing it I would have to assume your 'magic' is going to be your 'force' rating... it takes days per force to inhabit... so likely looking at 24+ services to do this... Furhter more if GM wants to get evil (and with this abuse I would)...
Now do the 'powers' end at each sunrise/sunset... (if even for only a nanosecond)... then the inhabitiation fails, since you no longer have the power to inhabit... |
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Sep 19 2007, 11:21 PM
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#14
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
This serves a twofold purpose. First, it means that serial Inhabitation of a vessel is possible. The current spirit is destroyed. There is never more than one spirit in the vessel. The highlighted portion is more important, however, since it means that projecting mages are not destroyed if their empty bodies are Inhabited. It is, in fact, common for Shedim to possess the empty bodies of projecting magicians and when this happens the magician continues to live until dying from essence loss which, depending on your point of view, can either be taken care of with Endowment of Astral Form or Endowment of Essence Drain. Next, I look at the The Inhabitation Merges Sidebar on Page 100
Then I look at the Inhabitation table on p.101 and I notice that you want to fail the test as miserably as is possible. If the Inhabitor's dice pool is reduced to 0, he is guaranteed the best result possible. If the vessel wins, you get a flesh form. Inhabitation can only fail if there is a critical glitch on the part of the Inhabitor. 0 Pool means 0 chance of gliching. Also, once you get inside the vessel you will Inhabit, Essence loss ceases instantly. There is no need to use any more services. But, since we're dealing for Force 1 spirits here, you can do a lot of binding and rebinding. |
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Sep 20 2007, 01:30 AM
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#15
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 7,089 Joined: 4-October 05 Member No.: 7,813 |
funny... i would have recommended just inhabiting *other* people (people with skills that you want, in particular ;) )
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Sep 20 2007, 01:38 AM
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#16
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
Fail. Astral Form takes your entire body into the astral. You have no physical body to have inhabited. Projecting prior to that changes nothing. |
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Sep 20 2007, 01:47 AM
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#17
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
This arguement has been done. essence Drain is preferable to Astral Form since it doesn't creat such a huge pile of crap, my mistake on that one. Just get Materialization and Essence Drain and a few lobotomized slaves. |
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Sep 20 2007, 02:01 AM
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#18
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 615 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,895 |
Well possesion is completely different then inhabitiation... Secondly there is no essence loss in SR4 from projecting... you merely go for hours magic then die... (or if physical body is killed hour *magic *2) Also, Endowment Essence drain does help, you do not lose essence, you merely die after essence hours of astral projection.
No where does the power say it eleminates the after X hours of astral projection you DIE... so after magic hours of seperated from your body the astral form dies.... Neither astral form or essence drain would help this. OK will have to yield on the 'flesh' form says it does keep the powers (despite the text elsewhere that says it does not). Hwoever lets look to the actual mechanics: 1) Conjure Allies.... Nothing really wrong here. 2) Conjure great form... well you need 5 hits on the invoking test to get endowment, but past that nothing ground breaking rules wise. 3) Porject and be endowed with Astral form... take a services every sunset/sunrise from teh great form spirit. 4) Have ally inhabit your body. Body does not need to be prepared since it is an 'empty' body. Takes 1 day per force in a magic lodge equal to force. (your rules say force 1 spirit, so one day).. This is 2 services to maintain astral form for 'a day' (unless you start at the instant of sunrise or sunset it would technically take three, but will presume 2 and you time it perfectly). 5) Endow second ally. Again takes a services at sunrise and sunset. 6) Second ally endow you with inhabitiation. No 'services' since ally has unlimited no problems 7) Inhabit your 'old body' Well the body is not an empty vessel (it has something in it) so at this point you would need to use the rules , so you have to prepare the vessel making an enchanting+magic (willpower of vessel, 1 day) with the essence or magic of the ally in your body subtracting (it will be utterly destroyed as an ally it may be helpless to resist but it certainly is not WILLING to be completely destroyed). A minimum of 1 day, possibly longer... so atleast 2 more services from the great form (to maintain astral form for you) (no need to actually have the inhabitiation power endowed yet, so not burning services there yet)... also is questionable if YOU could prepare your body, or you would need somebody else to prepare it for you.... Now once you body is prepared you may attempt to inhabit it... So have spirit endow you with inhabitate and you can try:
One small catch, what is the 'appropirate tradition' for a spirit of cheesy mage... The preperation has to be done by somebody that can summon that spirit (appropriate tradition).... who can summon the mage? (anwer nobody).... (well immortal elves maybe).... However ignoring the above (since somehow previously we did cover you prepaing the vessel (which per RAW is impossible)... It now takes Force Days. Now here the fact you are clearly doing stuff rules are not intended shows, but the 'logical' assumption is magic equal force (since it is the closest to measuring waht force is), so we are looking at 6+ days (presuming magic 6 which if you have initiated a couple of times, is likely low)... So 12 more services to maintain inhabitation power during the process and 12 more services to maintain astral form... also you haven't 'inhabited' the vessel until the end... so how are wyou staying alive for the period... (Since you live magic hours outside body... yet it takes magic DAYS to inhabitied body.)
The rules never mention anything else 'breaking' the process, but from this text, we could infer that if the process is interrupted (such as the great form spirit runs out of services, is banished, or otherwise prevented from re-newing the endow power...) both die... So even if 'allowed' you are looking at 20-30 services from a great form spirit. some how surviving numerous days without a body, somewhow having a mage that can prepare a vessel (and yet another concern below) appropriate to the 'cheesy powergaming munchkin mage' tradition. As a final concern on the body...
Ok we have addressed what is the 'appropriate tradition' which technically is none, since nobody can summon 'a mage in astral form' But lets check out the rest of the rules: First we hit page 94:
Ok so the first ally inhabit your body works since you body (either since you summoned the spirit, or your body is empty) counts as a prepared vessel) The problem occurs when YOU try to inhabit the body... You did not summon yourself, so 'your body' doesnt count (and technically it is not your body any more it is a dual-natured entity housing the ally spirit). Nor is your 'body' empty, but rather it is a vessel carrying a spirit already. So we have to hit page 86... and see if the body can be prepared: Well I think we all will say your body is not dead.. an object, or a hummoculi ... so the only possible entry is 'living vessel'... however considering the 'vessel' is actually already an inhbatied vessel... is it a "from a living metahuman or critter" personaly my answer is no. Since by this token the spirit possesing a car, now suddenly is a 'living entity' .. the spirit inhabititing your 'body' is just that a spirit inhabiting a prepared vessel... the body is now nothing more then a prepared vessel... They way I read the rules, inhabited vessels are immune to being inhabited... (from what I can read, they could be termporarily possed, but inhabitation requires a prepared vessel... and there are no rules for preparing a already inhabitited vessel.). The final 'break' is the simple fact... Inhabitation is permenant.... so the instead you have your ally inhabit (rather then posses) your body... it is no longer your body... you have no living body.... (otherwise how do you handle if you want to 'come back' the ally can't leave your body....
The only way to get a inhabited spirit out of a prepared vessel is to destroy the vessel... so there is no way to inhabit and inhabited vessel. So: 1) Aint allowed. 2) No way you could live for days outside your body... required to inhabit your body... 3) Impossible for somebody to 'prepaire' your body as they have to be appropriate traddition for the spirit... there is no class which can summon spirits of cheesy mages... 4) No way to 'inhabit' an already inhabited vessel... only way to seperate the spirit from the vessel is to completely destroy the vessel.... which then leaves you with no vessel. |
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Sep 20 2007, 02:22 AM
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#19
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
I would presume that a magician is the aproperiate tradition for himself, but I cna see how this is debatable.
Okay, then, we can cut out the spirit altogether and just Inhabit the empty body. That'll work, because Inhabitation is assumed to take place as soon as the process is started (other wise no threat spirit can actually use Inhabitation), he doesn't even need Astral Form. He Inhabits his own body and only gets Immunity to Normal Weapons and Aura Masking. |
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Sep 20 2007, 02:30 AM
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#20
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
whats this? a poor attempt at the sr variant of pun-pun?
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Sep 20 2007, 02:37 AM
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#21
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
How exactly are you getting Essence Drain again? |
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Sep 20 2007, 02:39 AM
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#22
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
By makinga Blood Spirit and telling the Guardian Spirit to give it Endowment.
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Sep 20 2007, 02:40 AM
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#23
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
Ah, so GM Fiat land. Okay, no worries.
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Sep 20 2007, 03:41 AM
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#24
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 615 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,895 |
Ok ignoring the debate on the appropriate traddition, since agreed it is alteast debatable. You lose me on the otherwise no threat spirit can actually use inhabitation... Inhabitation is a process that takes days (and generally a helpless victim).. Thus why we had wonderful homeless shelters and coocons.... Inhabitation is not a 'in combat' power but a behind the scenes power. Possesion is used to 'jump' somebody... Inhabitation is used to make a permenant long term investment.... Traditionaly (admitedly doesnt mean a whole lot in SR4).... bugs.. forced people into coocoons (where they would merge over several days helpless) and then hatch as a new thing... Sounds exactly like inhabitate works (if the coocon is a magic lodge).... To inhabit himself the mage would have to 1) leave his body... (projection) then inhabitate.. which takes days per force.... so once again you have to survive days projecting not something possible for something tied to meat.... (leaving out could you inhabit yourself.....) Secondly what happens when you lose the inhabitation power.... The rules don't cover this (since it clearly isnt intended for non-inhabitation spirits to have use of the power)... It is perfectly 'by raw' to say once the power ends, the inhabitation ends... Sure the 'power' says the merge is permenant... but then again that presume you have the power.... once the endowment is over... you no longer have the power, you are no longer inhabitating the vessel.... you die..... When the 'endowment inhabiation' service runs out... you suddenly no longer have inhabitations, it is impossible for you to force yourself into a prepared vessel.. you get ejected..... |
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Sep 20 2007, 01:23 PM
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#25
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,245 Joined: 27-April 07 From: Running the streets of Southeast Virginia Member No.: 11,548 |
Just a note... SM also clearly states the mage's body is always considered to be a prepared vessel.
Astral Form gives you the ability to live astrally (without a meat body). Sure he'd have to have a lot of services from supporting spirits but it could be accomplished. BTW, once he successfully Inhabits his own body, his need of Endowment would be eliminated. Why? He's already successfully inside the body. As such, if he lost the power of Inahabitation, it's no great loss. He's already anchored there. It's much like a healing spell. Once the spell is done and ends, the damage doesn't return. It stays gone. Once Inhabitation runs its course, the power ends with some sort of merge (or failure to Inhabit). It's not a sustained power. It's a Permanent one. Once its effects are in place, the power ends. It'd be a creative way to stock up spirit powers on a PC. Do it enough and you'd have the ability to live forever (get the hidden life power). Just curious though... what would be your metaplane of existance should you get disrupted? What if your tradition doesn't have access to that metaplane? Just an aside, in SR4 projection lasts for (Magic) Hours, not Essence. At any rate, Astral Gateway gets around the hour - day disparity, especially if you are using a bound spirit that you've stocked up a crap load of services on. The entire process would be convoluted but it could be done. Would I allow it as the GM? Probably not. But if the player did propose it in a neat and creative manner and per RAW showed every step as being legitimate and correct, I'd give them some sort of reward for creativity. You never want to punish a player for being creative. You want to reward them for it and encourage them to keep coming up with new and unusual ways to accomplish goals. |
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