1) Conjure 2 Force 1 Inhabitation Ally spirits; make one with some cool powers that you'd like to have; the other doesn't matter.
2) Conjure a Great Form Guardian Spirit with Endowment
3) Project and have it endow you with Astral Form; Materialization/Possession is optional
4) Have the Ally with powers that you like Inhabit your now empty body.
5) Endow Endowment to the other Ally
6) Have it Endow you with Inhabitation
7) Inhabit your body with the Ally Spirit in it.
8)Repeat
This is only slightly less cheesy than the other version, in which you just repeatedly Inhabit your own empty body for stat bonuses.
Full Version: Worst abuse of Endowment, ever
...shouldn't #8. be "Wash, Rinse, Repeat? 
If you can get that by your GM, more power to you!
sigh
| QUOTE (Kyoto Kid) |
| ...shouldn't #8. be "Wash, Rinse, Repeat? |
Don't forget the extra cheese!
*sigh* Jeeze, this is munchkiny...
Am I the only one that suddenly had a visual related to that scene in Strange Days. Or maybe it's the kink turn that the Momhammerer thread has taken. Wait, can you feedback an AR feed to yourself?....oh man, I need to get some rest. My back's been killing me and I haven't been able to sleep more than an hour at a time since Sunday. Even with the Percocet. 
Ok, but what do you do if you get banished from your own body?
You can't banish someone who is Inhabiting. When you Inhabit a body, it becomes your body. And when you Inhabit a living body, you eat its soul and take all of its powers. When is why sacrificing an Ally with useful spirit powers in this manner give you those powers.
| QUOTE |
| Only one spirit may occupy a vessel at a time. |
Seems to me since your ally spirit is occupying your body you can't per RAW
| QUOTE |
| Regardless of how a spirit has entered a vessel, the spirit’s mind has control of the body and the host’s mind (and abilities) |
You do NOT keep the abilities of the host... so you would NOT gain the powers of the spirit that was previously inhabiting your body, even if they above 'one spirit' in a vessel rule did not apply
Also if you are being cheesy ... then both sides can..
| QUOTE |
| At the end of thatperiod, the spirit makes an Opposed Test pitting its Force x 2 against the host’s Willpower+ Intuition |
Hmm you get to make force (0) you dont have force) *2 against hosts willpower + inutution... hmm zero dice... MAYBE you can make it with longshot rules, but better have maxxed edge and hope the other side rolls crappy.
| QUOTE |
| During merging, the vessel’s original spirit (if present) is consumed and for all intents and purposes that character is essentially lost (though, as always, gamemasters may decide otherwise if appropriate to their stories). |
Hmm also even while 'projecting' atleast a porition of yoru spirit is tied to you body... (since damage to body... is damage to your 'spirit')...
So when ally inhabitis your body... YOU DIE.
Also it takes 'days per force' to do the inhabitation...
One can project for hours per magic....
So you will be dead before the first inhabitiation is finished...
Now that could be worked around if you could get another spirit with astral gateway...
Also you will be using 2 services from the great spirit per day (to maintain astral gateway on yourself) plus 2 more services per day, to keep endow endowment up on your ally...
So even if everything else is ignored you are looking at 4+ services per day (and if allowing it I would have to assume your 'magic' is going to be your 'force' rating... it takes days per force to inhabit... so likely looking at 24+ services to do this...
Furhter more if GM wants to get evil (and with this abuse I would)...
One can project for hours per magic....
So you will be dead before the first inhabitiation is finished...
Now that could be worked around if you could get another spirit with astral gateway...
Also you will be using 2 services from the great spirit per day (to maintain astral gateway on yourself) plus 2 more services per day, to keep endow endowment up on your ally...
So even if everything else is ignored you are looking at 4+ services per day (and if allowing it I would have to assume your 'magic' is going to be your 'force' rating... it takes days per force to inhabit... so likely looking at 24+ services to do this...
Furhter more if GM wants to get evil (and with this abuse I would)...
| QUOTE |
| Is there a maximum period of time a spirit power may be used continuously at the cost of a single service? This is up to the gamemaster's discretion, as per the guidelines given on pp. 177-178, SR4, and pp. 94-95, Street Magic. No spirit is going to let their summoner abuse them in this manner. If nothing else, a spirit is most likely to charge a service for each sunrise or sunset that passes while continuously using a power. |
Now do the 'powers' end at each sunrise/sunset... (if even for only a nanosecond)... then the inhabitiation fails, since you no longer have the power to inhabit...
| QUOTE (Street Magic P.100) |
| During merging, the vessel's original spirit (if present) is consumed and for all intents and purposes the character is essentially lost. |
This serves a twofold purpose. First, it means that serial Inhabitation of a vessel is possible. The current spirit is destroyed. There is never more than one spirit in the vessel.
The highlighted portion is more important, however, since it means that projecting mages are not destroyed if their empty bodies are Inhabited. It is, in fact, common for Shedim to possess the empty bodies of projecting magicians and when this happens the magician continues to live until dying from essence loss which, depending on your point of view, can either be taken care of with Endowment of Astral Form or Endowment of Essence Drain.
Next, I look at the The Inhabitation Merges Sidebar on Page 100
| QUOTE (Street Magic p.100) |
| [Hybrid Form] retains the host's natural abilities [...] [Flesh Form] Retains all teh memories abilities and skills of the host [...] |
Then I look at the Inhabitation table on p.101 and I notice that you want to fail the test as miserably as is possible. If the Inhabitor's dice pool is reduced to 0, he is guaranteed the best result possible. If the vessel wins, you get a flesh form. Inhabitation can only fail if there is a critical glitch on the part of the Inhabitor. 0 Pool means 0 chance of gliching.
Also, once you get inside the vessel you will Inhabit, Essence loss ceases instantly. There is no need to use any more services. But, since we're dealing for Force 1 spirits here, you can do a lot of binding and rebinding.
funny... i would have recommended just inhabiting *other* people (people with skills that you want, in particular 
)
)
| QUOTE (hyzmarca) |
| 3) Project and have it endow you with Astral Form; Materialization/Possession is optional |
Fail. Astral Form takes your entire body into the astral. You have no physical body to have inhabited. Projecting prior to that changes nothing.
| QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein) | ||
Fail. Astral Form takes your entire body into the astral. You have no physical body to have inhabited. Projecting prior to that changes nothing. |
This arguement has been done.
essence Drain is preferable to Astral Form since it doesn't creat such a huge pile of crap, my mistake on that one. Just get Materialization and Essence Drain and a few lobotomized slaves.
| QUOTE |
| n fact, common for Shedim to possess the empty bodies of projecting magicians and when this happens the magician continues to live until dying from essence loss which, depending on your point of view, can either be taken care of with Endowment of Astral Form or Endowment of Essence Drain. |
Well possesion is completely different then inhabitiation...
Secondly there is no essence loss in SR4 from projecting... you merely go for hours magic then die... (or if physical body is killed hour *magic *2)
Also, Endowment Essence drain does help, you do not lose essence, you merely die after essence hours of astral projection.
| QUOTE |
The magician can maintain this form for a number of hours equal to her Magic attribute. After this time, if she has not returned to her physical body, her astral form will die, leaving her physical body in a permanent coma |
| QUOTE |
| A critter with the Astral Form power exists in the astral plane only. It cannot be damaged by physical attacks or physical spells; only astral attacks or mana spells may hurt an astral critter. Likewise, an astral critter cannot aff ect other creatures in the material world, only dual-natured creatures or astrally perceiving characters. Critters with this power may manifest on the physical plane in the same way as astrally projecting magicians can (see p. 182). |
No where does the power say it eleminates the after X hours of astral projection you DIE... so after magic hours of seperated from your body the astral form dies....
Neither astral form or essence drain would help this.
OK will have to yield on the 'flesh' form says it does keep the powers (despite the text elsewhere that says it does not).
Hwoever lets look to the actual mechanics:
1) Conjure Allies.... Nothing really wrong here.
2) Conjure great form... well you need 5 hits on the invoking test to get endowment, but past that nothing ground breaking rules wise.
3) Porject and be endowed with Astral form... take a services every sunset/sunrise from teh great form spirit.
4) Have ally inhabit your body. Body does not need to be prepared since it is an 'empty' body. Takes 1 day per force in a magic lodge equal to force. (your rules say force 1 spirit, so one day).. This is 2 services to maintain astral form for 'a day' (unless you start at the instant of sunrise or sunset it would technically take three, but will presume 2 and you time it perfectly).
5) Endow second ally. Again takes a services at sunrise and sunset.
6) Second ally endow you with inhabitiation. No 'services' since ally has unlimited no problems
7) Inhabit your 'old body'
Well the body is not an empty vessel (it has something in it) so at this point you would need to use the rules , so you have to prepare the vessel making an enchanting+magic (willpower of vessel, 1 day) with the essence or magic of the ally in your body subtracting (it will be utterly destroyed as an ally it may be helpless to resist but it certainly is not WILLING to be completely destroyed). A minimum of 1 day, possibly longer... so atleast 2 more services from the great form (to maintain astral form for you) (no need to actually have the inhabitiation power endowed yet, so not burning services there yet)... also is questionable if YOU could prepare your body, or you would need somebody else to prepare it for you....
Now once you body is prepared you may attempt to inhabit it...
So have spirit endow you with inhabitate and you can try:
| QUOTE |
| In order to inhabit a vessel, a spirit must have the assistance of a magician of an appropriate tradition who must prepare the intended vessel in advance (see Vessel Preparation, p. 86) within a magical lodge with a Force equal or higher than the spirit’s. |
One small catch, what is the 'appropirate tradition' for a spirit of cheesy mage... The preperation has to be done by somebody that can summon that spirit (appropriate tradition).... who can summon the mage? (anwer nobody).... (well immortal elves maybe)....
However ignoring the above (since somehow previously we did cover you prepaing the vessel (which per RAW is impossible)...
It now takes Force Days. Now here the fact you are clearly doing stuff rules are not intended shows, but the 'logical' assumption is magic equal force (since it is the closest to measuring waht force is), so we are looking at 6+ days (presuming magic 6 which if you have initiated a couple of times, is likely low)...
So 12 more services to maintain inhabitation power during the process and 12 more services to maintain astral form... also you haven't 'inhabited' the vessel until the end... so how are wyou staying alive for the period... (Since you live magic hours outside body... yet it takes magic DAYS to inhabitied body.)
| QUOTE |
| The period of inhabitation is trying for both vessel and spirit. If the vessel is removed from the lodge before completion, both the spirit and host will die gamemaster’s discretion). |
The rules never mention anything else 'breaking' the process, but from this text, we could infer that if the process is interrupted (such as the great form spirit runs out of services, is banished, or otherwise prevented from re-newing the endow power...) both die...
So even if 'allowed' you are looking at 20-30 services from a great form spirit. some how surviving numerous days without a body, somewhow having a mage that can prepare a vessel (and yet another concern below) appropriate to the 'cheesy powergaming munchkin mage' tradition.
As a final concern on the body...
| QUOTE |
| In order to inhabit a vessel, a spirit must have the assistance of a magician of an appropriate tradition who must prepare the intended vessel in advance (see Vessel Preparation, page 86) within a magical lodge with a Force equal or higher than the spirit’s. |
Ok we have addressed what is the 'appropriate tradition' which technically is none, since nobody can summon 'a mage in astral form'
But lets check out the rest of the rules:
First we hit page 94:
| QUOTE |
| The body of a magician or mystic adept is considered a prepared vessel for any spirit he conjures, no special preparation needed. Likewise, an astrally projecting character’s empty body counts as an available vessel, whether it has been specially prepared or not. |
Ok so the first ally inhabit your body works since you body (either since you summoned the spirit, or your body is empty) counts as a prepared vessel)
The problem occurs when YOU try to inhabit the body...
You did not summon yourself, so 'your body' doesnt count (and technically it is not your body any more it is a dual-natured entity housing the ally spirit).
Nor is your 'body' empty, but rather it is a vessel carrying a spirit already.
So we have to hit page 86... and see if the body can be prepared:
Well I think we all will say your body is not dead.. an object, or a hummoculi ... so the only possible entry is 'living vessel'...
however considering the 'vessel' is actually already an inhbatied vessel... is it a "from a living metahuman or critter" personaly my answer is no. Since by this token the spirit possesing a car, now suddenly is a 'living entity' .. the spirit inhabititing your 'body' is just that a spirit inhabiting a prepared vessel... the body is now nothing more then a prepared vessel...
They way I read the rules, inhabited vessels are immune to being inhabited... (from what I can read, they could be termporarily possed, but inhabitation requires a prepared vessel... and there are no rules for preparing a already inhabitited vessel.).
The final 'break' is the simple fact... Inhabitation is permenant.... so the instead you have your ally inhabit (rather then posses) your body... it is no longer your body... you have no living body.... (otherwise how do you handle if you want to 'come back' the ally can't leave your body....
| QUOTE |
| An inhabiting spirit permanently merges with a prepared vessel, and cannot be separated with Banishing or even by the spirit’s choice. An inhabiting spirit is not disrupted until the vessel is killed from Physical damage overflow (see p. 244,SR4). |
The only way to get a inhabited spirit out of a prepared vessel is to destroy the vessel... so there is no way to inhabit and inhabited vessel.
So:
1) Aint allowed.
2) No way you could live for days outside your body... required to inhabit your body...
3) Impossible for somebody to 'prepaire' your body as they have to be appropriate traddition for the spirit... there is no class which can summon spirits of cheesy mages...
4) No way to 'inhabit' an already inhabited vessel... only way to seperate the spirit from the vessel is to completely destroy the vessel.... which then leaves you with no vessel.
I would presume that a magician is the aproperiate tradition for himself, but I cna see how this is debatable.
Okay, then, we can cut out the spirit altogether and just Inhabit the empty body. That'll work, because Inhabitation is assumed to take place as soon as the process is started (other wise no threat spirit can actually use Inhabitation), he doesn't even need Astral Form.
He Inhabits his own body and only gets Immunity to Normal Weapons and Aura Masking.
Okay, then, we can cut out the spirit altogether and just Inhabit the empty body. That'll work, because Inhabitation is assumed to take place as soon as the process is started (other wise no threat spirit can actually use Inhabitation), he doesn't even need Astral Form.
He Inhabits his own body and only gets Immunity to Normal Weapons and Aura Masking.
whats this? a poor attempt at the sr variant of pun-pun?
| QUOTE (hyzmarca) |
| essence Drain is preferable to Astral Form since it doesn't creat such a huge pile of crap, my mistake on that one. Just get Materialization and Essence Drain and a few lobotomized slaves. |
How exactly are you getting Essence Drain again?
By makinga Blood Spirit and telling the Guardian Spirit to give it Endowment.
Ah, so GM Fiat land. Okay, no worries.
| QUOTE (hyzmarca) |
| I would presume that a magician is the aproperiate tradition for himself, but I cna see how this is debatable. Okay, then, we can cut out the spirit altogether and just Inhabit the empty body. That'll work, because Inhabitation is assumed to take place as soon as the process is started (other wise no threat spirit can actually use Inhabitation), he doesn't even need Astral Form. He Inhabits his own body and only gets Immunity to Normal Weapons and Aura Masking. |
Ok ignoring the debate on the appropriate traddition, since agreed it is alteast debatable.
You lose me on the otherwise no threat spirit can actually use inhabitation...
Inhabitation is a process that takes days (and generally a helpless victim).. Thus why we had wonderful homeless shelters and coocons....
Inhabitation is not a 'in combat' power but a behind the scenes power. Possesion is used to 'jump' somebody...
Inhabitation is used to make a permenant long term investment....
Traditionaly (admitedly doesnt mean a whole lot in SR4).... bugs.. forced people into coocoons (where they would merge over several days helpless) and then hatch as a new thing... Sounds exactly like inhabitate works (if the coocon is a magic lodge)....
To inhabit himself the mage would have to 1) leave his body... (projection) then inhabitate.. which takes days per force.... so once again you have to survive days projecting not something possible for something tied to meat....
(leaving out could you inhabit yourself.....)
Secondly what happens when you lose the inhabitation power....
The rules don't cover this (since it clearly isnt intended for non-inhabitation spirits to have use of the power)... It is perfectly 'by raw' to say once the power ends, the inhabitation ends...
Sure the 'power' says the merge is permenant... but then again that presume you have the power.... once the endowment is over... you no longer have the power, you are no longer inhabitating the vessel.... you die.....
When the 'endowment inhabiation' service runs out... you suddenly no longer have inhabitations, it is impossible for you to force yourself into a prepared vessel.. you get ejected.....
Just a note... SM also clearly states the mage's body is always considered to be a prepared vessel.
Astral Form gives you the ability to live astrally (without a meat body).
Sure he'd have to have a lot of services from supporting spirits but it could be accomplished.
BTW, once he successfully Inhabits his own body, his need of Endowment would be eliminated. Why? He's already successfully inside the body. As such, if he lost the power of Inahabitation, it's no great loss. He's already anchored there.
It's much like a healing spell. Once the spell is done and ends, the damage doesn't return. It stays gone. Once Inhabitation runs its course, the power ends with some sort of merge (or failure to Inhabit). It's not a sustained power. It's a Permanent one. Once its effects are in place, the power ends.
It'd be a creative way to stock up spirit powers on a PC. Do it enough and you'd have the ability to live forever (get the hidden life power). Just curious though... what would be your metaplane of existance should you get disrupted? What if your tradition doesn't have access to that metaplane?
Just an aside, in SR4 projection lasts for (Magic) Hours, not Essence. At any rate, Astral Gateway gets around the hour - day disparity, especially if you are using a bound spirit that you've stocked up a crap load of services on.
The entire process would be convoluted but it could be done. Would I allow it as the GM? Probably not. But if the player did propose it in a neat and creative manner and per RAW showed every step as being legitimate and correct, I'd give them some sort of reward for creativity. You never want to punish a player for being creative. You want to reward them for it and encourage them to keep coming up with new and unusual ways to accomplish goals.
Astral Form gives you the ability to live astrally (without a meat body).
Sure he'd have to have a lot of services from supporting spirits but it could be accomplished.
BTW, once he successfully Inhabits his own body, his need of Endowment would be eliminated. Why? He's already successfully inside the body. As such, if he lost the power of Inahabitation, it's no great loss. He's already anchored there.
It's much like a healing spell. Once the spell is done and ends, the damage doesn't return. It stays gone. Once Inhabitation runs its course, the power ends with some sort of merge (or failure to Inhabit). It's not a sustained power. It's a Permanent one. Once its effects are in place, the power ends.
It'd be a creative way to stock up spirit powers on a PC. Do it enough and you'd have the ability to live forever (get the hidden life power). Just curious though... what would be your metaplane of existance should you get disrupted? What if your tradition doesn't have access to that metaplane?
Just an aside, in SR4 projection lasts for (Magic) Hours, not Essence. At any rate, Astral Gateway gets around the hour - day disparity, especially if you are using a bound spirit that you've stocked up a crap load of services on.
The entire process would be convoluted but it could be done. Would I allow it as the GM? Probably not. But if the player did propose it in a neat and creative manner and per RAW showed every step as being legitimate and correct, I'd give them some sort of reward for creativity. You never want to punish a player for being creative. You want to reward them for it and encourage them to keep coming up with new and unusual ways to accomplish goals.
| QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein) |
| Ah, so GM Fiat land. Okay, no worries. |
Shouldn't this be GM Renault-Fiat in SR? *Bab-boom-tssssch!*
...I always wanted to play a Fiat Spider shaman *tssssss*
This particular mage's name wouldn't happen to be pun pun, would it?
...pun pun?
[..early in the morning out here, at work, & not enough caffeine coursing through the neural network yet...]
[..early in the morning out here, at work, & not enough caffeine coursing through the neural network yet...]
Pun-pun is how you win D&D. In 5 levels.
Behold.
Behold.
...yikes the ultimate munchkin (in more ways than one).
[shows how often I play the Game That Should Not Be Mentioned]
I think I 'll stick to normal ideas like Troll Social Adept Faces and Dwarf Kung-Fu Fighting Adepts.
[shows how often I play the Game That Should Not Be Mentioned]
I think I 'll stick to normal ideas like Troll Social Adept Faces and Dwarf Kung-Fu Fighting Adepts.
| QUOTE (Moon-Hawk) |
| Pun-pun is how you win D&D. In 5 levels. Behold. |
you mean they still haven't gotten it below 5 levels?
anyways, this is nowhere near as bad as Pun Pun. for one thing, this will never give you infinite anything... you are subject to caps in pretty much every attribute (unless you somehow manage to inhabit a blood spirit 0.o ).
however, that being said, the mage won't need any time at all to inhabit stuff... he is force 0, and therefore takes 0 days to inhabit things. this is actually much better than the alternative, for the record, which adds the mage's magic attribute to all attributes and gives double the mage's magic rating immunity to normal weapons.
| QUOTE ( Darthmord) |
| Just a note... SM also clearly states the mage's body is always considered to be a prepared vessel. |
Actually not quite:
| QUOTE ( SM page 95) |
| The body of a magician or mystic adept is considered a prepared vessel for any spirit he conjures, no special preparation needed. Likewise, an astrally projecting character’s empty body counts as an available vessel, whether it has been specially prepared or not. |
Your allys is spirit your conjured so you body is a vessel for it... however...
YOU are not a spirit you conjured, so your body is not a vessel for yourself... Nor is your body 'empty' (in fact it is not even your body, but rather the vessel for another spirit).
So no go there (after the commiting sucide by telling your spirit to inhabit your body)..
| QUOTE |
| Astral Form gives you the ability to live astrally (without a meat body). |
Please tell me where this is the ENTIRE effect of astral form is...
| QUOTE |
| Astral Form Type: M • Action: Auto • Range: Self • Duration: Always A critter with the Astral Form power exists in the astral plane only. It cannot be damaged by physical attacks or physical spells; only astral attacks or mana spells may hurt an astral critter. Likewise, an astral critter cannot aff ect other creatures in the material world, only dual-natured creatures or astrally perceiving characters. Critters with this power may manifest on the physical plane in the same way as astrally projecting magicians can (see p. 182). |
That is all it does... per RAW... technically it is absolutely worthless, since a projecting mage already has all those things..... (immunity to physical attacks, and spells), ability to manifest....
While 'creatures' native to the astral plane might not die after a period of time (since they are not projecting)... NOTHING in astral form says you no longer die after a period of time, nor does it say it keep your 'meat' body alive...
If you are going to be a 'rules lawyer'.... you have to have a rule... sure astral creatures might not die after magic hours on the astral, but that is not necessarily because they have astral form... rather it is because they are NOT a projecting mage.....
If you want to be an absolute rules lawyer..
| QUOTE |
| A critter with the Astral Form power exists in the astral plane only. |
Fine the instead you are endowed with this power, you exist only on the astral plane... your body instantly totaly and completely dissappears....
Hmm I like this idea problem solved ....
| QUOTE |
| BTW, once he successfully Inhabits his own body, his need of Endowment would be eliminated. Why? He's already successfully inside the body. As such, if he lost the power of Inahabitation, it's no great loss. He's already anchored there. It's much like a healing spell. Once the spell is done and ends, the damage doesn't return. It stays gone. Once Inhabitation runs its course, the power ends with some sort of merge (or failure to Inhabit). It's not a sustained power. It's a Permanent one. Once its effects are in place, the power ends. |
Actually we do not know this...
Healing spells are 'permenant' and the rules for permenant spells say onec the sustained porition is over they have returned the body to a natural state and are 'permenant' and no longer magical..
However if we look at the inhabitate power:
| QUOTE |
| Inhabitation Type: P • Action: Auto • Range: Self • Duration: Special |
Its duration is special...
NO mention of what happens when/if the creature loses the power... If the duration was permenant, then I would agree once the 'sustained porition' is done... it is permenant and 'losing' the power is no longer a problem...
However, it is duration: special .... so we have no idea what happens
Now given though that the rules, do allow the spirit to continue 'after' the vessel is destroyed the spirit is merely disrupted 'not killed' makes it clear (to me) anyways that it is not a true 'permenant' change in the nature of a healing spell, but the power allowing the spirit to inhabitate the body.... since the spirit can live WITHOUT the body. if the inhabitation power was truly a 'permenant' power then the spirit would die with the vessel... rather the power allows the spirit to inhabitat the body... but is not an actual permenant change (such that would last without the power) since the spirit will exist once the vessel is destroyed.
Once again it comes down to rules lawyering...
House rules (anyones) can be whatever... but if you are claiming RAW... you have to stick to RAW...
RAW states permenant effects are permenant once they are sustained for the appropriate time...
HOWEVER, this power has a duration 'special', so it is not a 'permenant' power/spell. Now it is also true nothing directly states what happens, but without something that says it contradicts the 'normal rules' we have to use them... If you don't have the inhabitate power... then you can't inhabitate a vessel....
| QUOTE |
| Just an aside, in SR4 projection lasts for (Magic) Hours, not Essence. At any rate, Astral Gateway gets around the hour - day disparity, especially if you are using a bound spirit that you've stocked up a crap load of services on. |
I believe I also have corrected the other posters on 'essnce loss' versus you die magic hours later...
Also agree Astral gateway would remove the worries of 'dying'... but then you are now also talking about a huge number of services from a Great Form Guidance spirit (in addition to a great form guardian or task spirit) (or finding a free spirit).
| QUOTE |
| It'd be a creative way to stock up spirit powers on a PC. Do it enough and you'd have the ability to live forever (get the hidden life power). |
Well already addressed it not permenant..
| QUOTE |
| hat would be your metaplane of existance should you get disrupted? |
You don't have one.!!!!!
As a sideline when ever Rob gets a chance I do have all these fired off, so hopefully we will get an offical answer.... (and not counting on it, but perhaps an updated FAQ)
(edit: fixed quote tags)
As a sideline when ever Rob gets a chance I do have all these fired off, so hopefully we will get an offical answer.... (and not counting on it, but perhaps an updated FAQ)
(edit: fixed quote tags)
Ummm... guys?
Wasn't there already a ruling on the boards that Endowment needs an errata to specify that you can never be granted Materialization, Possession, Inhabitation, et al?
Wasn't there already a ruling on the boards that Endowment needs an errata to specify that you can never be granted Materialization, Possession, Inhabitation, et al?
And that is exactly why people have to enjoy Pun-Pun while they still can. 
| QUOTE (laughingowl) | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Ah ah... wait a sec. If someone or something takes over your meat body while you are out, there are rules to address that. Otherwise we couldn't have shedim or some other spirit take over one's body and give you the opportunity to take it back.
If you want to interpret it that way, go ahead. But no where does the power state it takes away your meat body. Then again, it does state they exist on the Astral. Doesn't mention a time limit like Astral Projection does, now does it? No time limit specified = no time limit at all? Could be. All the other places they need a time limit, one is mentioned. So care to try those again?
It's Permanent as long as the requisite condition is met (the body you are Inhabiting is still functional). That is the net effect of the power.
|
You really need to chill. I was speculating on the above couple of paragraphs. Not making definitive statements. Ya know, assuming all the above could be done, what would be a PC's metaplane? There's no need to try and jump down someone's throat.
| QUOTE (Big D) |
| Ummm... guys? Wasn't there already a ruling on the boards that Endowment needs an errata to specify that you can never be granted Materialization, Possession, Inhabitation, et al? |
I'd add Astral Form to that list. Its a way a Projecting mage can affect (and confine inside a ward) a number of targets equal to forcex2 since they become dual-natured. Combined with Mob Mind from the projecting mage the astral mage has minions to do physical things with and can command them from astral space.
| QUOTE (hyzmarca) |
| 1) Conjure 2 Force 1 Inhabitation Ally spirits; make one with some cool powers that you'd like to have; the other doesn't matter. 2) Conjure a Great Form Guardian Spirit with Endowment |
OK.
| QUOTE |
| 3) Project and have it endow you with Astral Form; Materialization/Possession is optional |
Doesn't help at all. Astral Form affects your whole body, but it also doesn't by itself move your body anywhere. So all it does is allow you to persist on the Astral Plane as a native if you're already there. It doesn't have any bearing on your current location (which is the physical). So nothing really happens when you get that power under almost any circumstances.
| QUOTE |
| 4) Have the Ally with powers that you like Inhabit your now empty body. 5) Endow Endowment to the other Ally 6) Have it Endow you with Inhabitation 7) Inhabit your body with the Ally Spirit in it. 8)Repeat |
This is incomprehensible. As soon as you inhabit your body, the other spirit would be forced out (only one per vessel). So you wouldn't get anything out of the deal. You don't heven get stat points because you don't have a Force.
| QUOTE |
| This is only slightly less cheesy than the other version, in which you just repeatedly Inhabit your own empty body for stat bonuses. |
Except that you don't have a Force and thus get a stat bonus of +0 every time you do this. Also you'd force out the old spirit every time you brought in a new spirit, so it would never stack.
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Basically it is an interesting attempt, but it actually fails repeatedly and doesn't actually amount to infinite power or even a decent amount of power. After the entire shell game (which requires additional elements that you have yet to achieve in this example), all you could hope to get out of the deal would be a Dual Nature (pretty dubiously advantageous there), and free Aura Masking. Your stats, your skills, your abilities would not otherwise change.
-Frank
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