3pts of Essence in bio. tips or tweaks?, augmenting an adept Options

[Aristotle]

I'm putting together a list of bioware, and trying to squeeze as much juice as I can get from 3 points of essence. The character in question is an adept, so I'm trying to half essence. I've played with a Bio/Cyber mix, but wasn't really getting what I felt I was going for.

The character in question has a Type O System (30pt quality). I've seen some confusion as to how this quality works. My understanding, and the basis for my math, is that it only affects "Basic" bioware. Cultured Bioware is purchased at full essence. The character will also likely be a gun adept.

First, here is the full 3 point build I came up with...
Synaptic Booster 3 (1.5)
Trauma Damper (.2)
Reflex Recorder: Skill (.1)
Muscle Toner 4 (.4)
Extended Volume 2 (.1)
Platelet Factories (.1)
Synthacardium 3 (.15)
[Second Hand] Orthoskin 3 (.45)

That comes in at 3 essence, but several items aren't available at character generation, and the price tag is way too high. So here is my paired down list, for the character to begin play with, while the character gets together the cash to pay for the rest.

Synaptic Booster 2 (1)
Reflex Recorder: Skill (.1)
Muscle Toner 2 (.2)
Platelet Factories (.1)
[Second Hand] Orthoskin 2 (.3)

1.7 essence, and 241,000 nuyen. Anyone care to offer any advice/tweaks?

[Kronk2]

[Tarantula]

Type O means no second hand biowear ever.

[Cain]

[Tycho]

[WearzManySkins]

Also Type O essence reduction does not apply to Cultured Bioware ie Synaptic Accerators, and reflex recorders, which in your example it does not, but I see only two piece of bioware gaining any benefit form Type O and that is Muscle Toner and Platelet Factories, that only saves you what .2 essence?

I would recommend getting rid of Type O quality and taking Biocompatability-Bioware, Synner has already stated that Biocompatability and Type O are two totally different genetic conditions with different "mechanics" to achieve similar results.

So if you use Biocompatability-Bioware what you have listed costs 1.8 in essence and only costs you 10 bps. So then you can use the left over 20 bps to buy another quality or what ever you like.

WMS

[WearzManySkins]

@Cain
Look in the Augmentation Q&A thread, search for the Type O Quality, Synner has answered that, any Cultured Bioware does not gain any benefit of Type O Quality.

WMS

[Tarantula]

Basic bioware isn't a specific enough clarification, as all 'ware has 4 grades (basic, alpha, beta, and delta) as well as bioware being either basic or cultured.

Basic bioware can either refer to basic grade bioware, or basic type bioware. The text isn't specific, and needs to be errataed, so a GM can rule either way. Check with your GM first.

Besides, if as you say, it refers to the type of bioware, and not the grade, you could get delta grade basic bioware, which then is reduced again from the quality, for a 75% reduction. This is why I believe it refers to the grade and not to the type.

[Big D]

Again, see the other thread. It's been stated that "basic" means non-cultured, and that normal "basic" gets delta benefits... and that alpha, beta, or delta "basic" get no further benefits.

IMHO, biocompatibility would be better, and a little cyber (eyes, maybe some headware gadgets or EPE) might help, too.

EDIT: WOO! Init boosters FTW! :)

[WearzManySkins]

@Tarantula
Synner and Frank Trollman discussed & explained the impact of Type O Quality in the Augmentation Q&A, with that quality, any non cultured bioware is basically delta grade, so buying a delta grade non cultured bioware gains you no essence savings.

Damn was not fast enough Big D got there first.

WMS

[Aristotle]

Thanks for the replies, and discussion, thus far...

Regarding Second Hand Ware. I guess I was just thinking of it as basic ware that was previously used, and since it was basic to start it would still count. That makes logical sense to me. But I can easily choose to not go that route. It would mean cutting Orthoskin to rating 1 in character generation.

Regarding Biocompatability. Type O is saving me .42 essence at character generation. Not huge. But with the planned upgrades, it would be giving me 4.05 in ware for 2.93. Maybe not huge, but I'm leaning towards keeping the quality.

[Tycho]

there is no basic grade!

the grades are: standard, alpha, beta and delta

so basic bioware means only the non cultured bioware, which is in every book is named basic bioware.

seem very clear to me...

cya
Tycho

[Cain]

[Tycho]

[Tarantula]

If we're referring to SR4, 303, then we have some other contentions to make. SR4, 303, "The prices for cyberware and bioware presented in this chapter are for standard ’ware (with the exception of cultured bioware, see p. 339)."

Which says that cultured isn't standard grade. But, cultured does have a standard grade.

Another contention I have, is that if the quality means the character matches the blanks they use for pre-grown bioware, then wouldn't that make it easier to delta match cultured ware too?

Regardless, I'm going treat the wording as not clear enough until I see an errata.

[Tycho]

Type O System says:

"...Off the rack, basic bioware is considered delta grade for purposes of interacting with a type O body..."

Question: what is meaned by basic bioware

Option 1:
Basic Bioware means all bioware of basic grade, although there is no basic grade and the description in every book is Standart Grade

Option 2:
Basic Bioware is the generic term for non cultured bioware, which is used so in every book.

So what seem the right one for you?

cya
Tycho

[Aristotle]

I was afraid this thread would become a discussion about this. We've gone a few rounds on this topic in other threads. I'm happy to discuss it here too, though. I originally felt the quality applied to cultured ware too. Then I did a careful reread of the relevant rules, and came to the same conclusions Tycho has.

I'll admit that it feels a little vague. The same way that pool modifiers versus attribute/skill modifiers feel vague to me. I'd love to see a little more clarity in general in any errata, and/or future products.

[X-Kalibur]

[WearzManySkins]

From the Augmentation Q&A Thread
Quote Synner this is from page 15 of that thread.

[Tarantula]

[WearzManySkins]

@Tarantula
IIRC that is covered the the Augmentation Q & A thread, start about page 13 of that thread.

WMS

[Tycho]

thats really simple:

all basic Bioware is produced in a way, that its compatible to all metahumans, and it's called Typo O, after this guy, which was first discovered with a Type O System.

cultured bioware have to be produced individually for any metahuman, otherwise it's useless.

if you have type O System, you are really lucky, because all implants of mass production (basic bioware) is produced to fit best to an Type O System. So an standard implant from an random bodyshop is deltaware for you.

cultured bioware is produced on an individual level, so even with Type O System you need one produced especially for you, so no benefit for cultured Bioware.

cya
Tycho

[Cain]

That makes absolutely no sense from a biological standpoint.

First of all, there's no such thing as "neurological integration". Modern transpalnt surgery doesn't worry at all about the nerves matching up. Instead, what they're worried about is "protein matching"-- matching the protein markers on every cell that identify a part of the body as itself.

In modern terms, a transplant patient has to take immunosupressants his whole life, otherwise the mismatched proteins will singal an intruder, and get attacked by the body's own immune system. Given that in 2070, they've beaten this, presumably through the Type O individual mentioned above.

Now, here's the thing. Both Type O and Cultured ware have a similar set of protein markers. We know that cultured ware isn't a perfect match, because it still triggers essence loss (while a cloned limb wouldn't). So, there's a set of foreign proteins floating around in both cultured and Type O bioware.

So, if Mr. Type O gets his benefits from the fact that he's got easily matched proteins, then both cultured and non-cultured bioware should get the bonus. Heck, the difference between cultured and non-cultured ware is stupid at the core, making assumptions about biology that should be obvious.

I spent part of my patient care time with a man who was listed as a kidney transplant patient, and I learned a lot about transplants in a hurry. When I say this makes no biological sense, it makes no sense.

[WearzManySkins]

@Cain
As someone put in another thread, taking RL and projecting it forward to 2070, is doomed to failure.

This game was developed/designed by those who in most part did not have a "clue" as for RL technologies etc. Does that make them bad? No just a game developer/designer, If I wanted something anywhere near RL, I would not enjoy it.

I play Shadowrun for enjoyment/escape from the RL crap of today, I can but "hope" that in the year 2070 the world will change, but I know from history, it will not. :D

WMS

[Cain]

It's one thing when they say: "It's a game, sorry."

It's another when a dev makes up pseudo-scientific mumbo jumbo as justification for an in-game effect. They should admit they're ignorant, and not extrapolating off of known technologies. Justifying nonsense with nonsense doesn't work.

Karl Wu, the writer of Shadowtech, based his writings off the known science of the time. It wasn't perfect, but it still made a certain amount of sense. This doesn't.