Technomancer questions, wannabe technomancer Options

[Gargs454]

I'll start off by apologizing in advance if this is too broad and for not starting off with a build myself, but I'm looking for just some basic thoughts on technomancers as opposed to actual builds.

Essentially, I've decided to branch out and actually play a hacker type for a change (never done it before) and I decided that since my GM is going to be using some plot hooks from Emergence that it might be cool to run a TM. The problem though is that I've never done a hacker/decker before, so I really am not sure where to start.

Obviously, the mental attributes and resonance are key and need to be bumped as high as possible from the outset (perhaps even Exceptional Attribute: W for the firewall and other skills??) I'm also going to be looking to be the main hacker (in terms of beating security systems, getting info, getting us in and out -- as opposed to rigging drones and the like). So obviously, skills such as Cracking, Datasearch, and all the main matrix related skills are important.

But, are there skills in these areas that are dumpable, or should I just be looking at the groups instead? Obviously my physical attributes are more or less dump stats, but what about any other mental attributes? Can a technomancer be effective without always being "in the meat"? Or do I need to invest a few BP in dodge because I'll generally be with the rest of the group (i.e. can I hack the security systems from afar typically?)

Finally, I know I'll need to invest in the Complex forms. Any recommendations on how many I should look to start with?

Any other helpful pointers would be appreciated, and I apologize again if I'm not being specific enough. If that's the case, I'll try to respond and provide more info as needed.

Thanks in advance!

[Eurotroll]

I recall dimly someone mentioning that the real power of TMs lies in Sprites, considering that they are rather more fragile than Hackers (seeing how any damage done to them in the Matrix translates directly into very real damage). I can't seem to find the post right now though... but that's something you should look into.

[Tarantula]

Indeed, crank up your resonance and compiling, as well as willpower (resonance + compiling for the compile test) (resonance + willpower for the fading test) and make some rating 12 sprites. Bonus if you want to spec your compiling (i'd go for courier for utility, or machine for diagnostics). Bonuses of this build, you can also thread your own forms high as well (provided you keep your software decent too).

The way you get around the stun damage is either, stim patches, or machine sprites with diagnostics on medkits. High rating courier sprites (rating 12) come with quite a few skills/powers. Computer, Data Search, Hacking, analyze, encrypt, stealth, track, transfer, and rating 12 lets you get 4 optional powers of the following, browse, command, decrypt, exploit, scan.

I'd recomment exploit, decrypt, browse and scan.

Said sprite has rating 12 of all of those complex forms (steath is really the important one though), and rolls rating (12) + skill (12) for matrix actions. Thats 24 dice for just about every matrix action you'll need. Keep him registered, and never worry about the compiling drain again.

To compile him initially (I'd recommend taking the edge codeslinger, for compiling) giving you resonance 6 + skill 6 + spec 2 + codeslinger 2 for 16 dice against his rating 12 dice. Chances are, you'll get a few successes. To resist the drain, you're looking at twice what hits the sprite got (probably 4) so around 8S. Take your will + resonance (12) and you probably drop that down to about 4S. A decent medkit, and you're all better.

Then, registering. Thats where you throw in edge to get him regstered. And, there you go, a super hacker in a box.

[Gelare]

[Eurotroll]

I wouldn't call Software useless, considering that Threading is a Resonance+Software test. It may be a little less useful than for a hacker, but it's not merely a waste of BP.

[Jaid]

i personally worry a little bit less about mental attributes than most people i've seen play technomancers... i guess i'm just weird =P resonance, however, is absolutely critical: it caps your CFs, helps you resist fading, limits how high you can thread your forms, etc. willpower is definitely a nice one, but the others are more of a "nice but not required". then again, i like my TMs to be able to be good riggers as well, since they can do so well at it... in any case, resonance is one of the few attributes i would actually consider maxing out (if you have enough starting CFs, it is cheaper to buy all your CFs to 6 now than it is to do it later).

as far as skills, from the resonance group you only need compiling and registering (registering is free, remember). for electronics you want computer (matrix perception checks are important!) data search, and software (threading is also important). as such, you may as well take the group and get hardware for free. from hacking, you may or may not care about cybercombat and electronic warfare... heck, you probably just flat out don't really care much about electronic warfare at all, 99% of the time (it's one of those areas a sprite or a good CF will cover for). cybercombat you should either take at a low rating with a specialisation in defense, or at a high rating with a specialisation in beating the living crud outta people (depending... either your TM is going to be *really* good at cybercombat, or he's going to be really bad. most likely bad. use sprites for it, is my advice).

as was said above, however, *everyone* needs to have a few specific skills: dodge, (unless you have both gymnastics and a melee skill) infiltration, con/etiquette, and perception are the big ones. it's hard to take all of those though, so probably forget about infiltration, and keep your perception low (but heavily buffed with gear, and try to keep a machine sprite with a high rating clearsight autosoft in a drone/sensor nearby). for TMs, a good first aid skill (specialising in fading) is not a bad idea, if possible.

as far as what CFs to take, my advice:

analyse, armor, exploit, stealth, edit, and spoof are the most important imo. if you expect to use them, command (for controlling drones etc) attack, black hammer and blackout all benefit from high ratings more than most other programs, and are programs you might expect to need at the same time as other programs, which is probably the biggest concern: any program you're going to need to use while needing other programs, you will want as a CF. otherwise, you'll be at -2 or more dice to most of your actions.

[WearzManySkins]

@Tarantula
Remember that Awakened (mages and TM) have a healing disadvantage "All Biotech and Medicine tests suffer a -2 dice pool modifier when used on Awakened characters."
"consequently the rule above applies equally to Technomancers."

To me this says that used a medkit or a medkit with spirites still suffers the -2 dice mod.

Got to get that magical healing, or a specialization of Medicine (Magical Health) which will remove the -2 dice.

WMS

[Buster]

[WearzManySkins]

Augmentation page 123
Under heading "Medical Care for the Awakened and Technomancers"

Good luck there maybe enough wiggle room for him to say they are not. :D

WMS

[Buster]

Is Decompiling worthwhile? I know that for a mage, Banishing is almost completely useless since a Stunball spell is a lot safer. Is there a better trick to ganking Sprites than Decompiling?

[Buster]

Also, how the heck do you Register a rating 12 sprite? It rolls 24 dice versus your resonance 6 + skill 4 + spec 2 + edge 8 = 20 dice. Even if by some miracle you get one net success over the sprite, you're still left with a sprite with no tasks. You'd have to spend another 8 hours and an Edge point to get 1 possible task (with sprite's 24 dice versus your 20 dice, you'd most likely fail). After a week of this you'd be ready for a run with one sprite with no tasks, and you'd have depleted your Edge pool. Hopefully I'm missing something, like a Technomancer Power Focus or something....

[Cabral]

Well your odds are a bit better since 6 "explode" when you use edge. So on average your 20 dice are actually 23 dice ...

[Buster]

Yeah, but that's still even dice which is net zero hits, which means the sprite doesn't even get registered in the first place let alone get a second net hit to gain a task.

Anyone invent a power focus for technomancers yet?

[WearzManySkins]

Since for a starting character RAW puts a limit of rating 6. To me that says only rating 6 sprites.

WMS

[Tarantula]

Actually Wearz, its on the healing modifiers table SR4, 244. "Patient is magician, adept, or technomancer. -2"

There is no "magical health" specialization of first aid. Just by treatment type. I'd go for fading damage if your GM allows it. If they don't, go for stun.

As a side note, technomancers are NOT awakened. They don't have a magic attribute, which is required to be awakened.

Buster: Yeah, theres a better trick, spoof the sprite. Only technos can spoof a sprite, but you just need to perceive the controlling persona first. Spoof it on some goosechase, like, hack neonets mainframe. It'll get destroyed.

As far as registering... on the intital compilation (16 vs 12 dice) you end up with probably 2 net successes, giving you 2 tasks. Then you register, resonance 6 + skill 6 + spec 2 = 14 dice, vs his 24 dice. 24 dice average 8 hits, you average 5. Reroll your failures (9 dice) for another 3 hits. After that, you're up to luck. Or you could always go for rating 10. 20 dice is plenty for most tasks anyway.

Wearz, as far as the first aid. Rating 6 medkit + rating 12 machine sprite using diagnostics, gets double rating for a dicepool and hits are added to the using characters DP. 24 average 8 hits. Techno has skill 4 + 2 spec + 6 medkit + 8 diagnostics -2 for being a techno. Net dice... 18. Average 6 hits, Threshold 2, hits over that heal damage. (Stim patch avoids negative modifiers), 6 hits - 2 for threshold = 4 damage healed. Technomancer is fine.

[Wasabi]

Tarantula is right on the money with how to make and utilaize a TM. Just a few additional points:

1. The Diagnostics power of a machine sprite means any device that has access to a matrix-enabled commlink can get mad crazy bonuses. Since the Diagnostics power adds to all dice to use the device, you can improve a traditional hacker's commlink, a riggers car, an autodoc, or even things like cybereyes and smartgun links. It makes it so a TM is able to make the team better.

2. Cookie Power. Its a spy thats hard to detect. Remember that the Resonance link means a TM has telepathy to his sprites.

3. Hash Power. Unbreakable encryption provided the baddies dont have a TM of their own.

4. The optional power of a machine sprite can be a autosoft. This is granted at the sprite's rating. This means a drone-using TM can have a Gunnery-9 autosoft from compiling and depending on if your GM does sprites as TM's (not limited by Response/Signal) or as Hackers (limited by Response/Signal) you may can have some really REALLY observant and competent sprites controlling drones which you can use telepathy to deliver instructions to via the Resonance Link.

TM's are a beautiful thing!

[Fortune]

[Wasabi]

[Tarantula]

Except, then theres no skill, -6 (4 skill and 2 spec) making your average 4 hits, healing only 2 of the 4 damage.

[Tarantula]

[WearzManySkins]

@Tarantula
Ok chicken or the egg, how does the TM get the rating 12 machine sprite to put into the medkit, to use to heal the damage done while trying to get a rating 12 sprite?

Also is using a sprite thru a medkit a remote operation? if so a -2 dice penalty.

Also Medicine does heal damage it just takes longer than a medkit. Surgical damage is still damage.

WMS

[Tarantula]

Getting the sprite... it easy. Compile it, order it to diagnose the medkit, then heal the stun away.

The sprite isn't using the medkit at all, the technomancer is. The sprite uses its diagnostics power, giving the techno +8 dice for using the medkit.

Medicine does NOT heal damage. It merely aids in the natural damage healing tests.

[WearzManySkins]

@Tarantula
OK you have a rating 12 sprite going to use it in a medkit, let say the TM has a resonance of 6 and a compiling of 6 TM has 12 dice to resist the fading of sprites 12 dice. Both get 4 successes, no net successes no sprite.

You might look at the Mystical Healing optional rule in Augmentation.

It is stated that Medicine deals with Long Term Healing, nothing said about natural. Having a IV and tubes plugged into you is not natural healing. :D Pumping steroids, antibiotics, putting someone on ECMO or heart lung bypass is not Natural healing, it is Medicine.

I now why some like AH do not allow TM's in their games.:S

WMS

[WearzManySkins]

@Tarantula
A rating 12 sprite unregistered lasts 8 hours, registering a rating 12 sprite takes 12 hours. Unregistered sprite has gone away when the registering of the rating 12 sprite has finished.

Compiling and or registering is a complex task, using a medkit is a complex task. Applying a stimulant patch is a simple action. A rating 6 stimulant patch lasts 60 minutes.

When a TM with a Resonance of 6 and a has Registering of 6 the opposed test the Sprite has 24 dice versus the TM's 14 dice, the Sprite gets 8 hits.

Time line
Compiles an unregistered sprite to place in the medkit.
Applies a rating 6 Stimulant patch.
Spends 12 hours registering the sprite(complex action), at that time, the unregistered sprite is gone, and the stimulant patch has worn off and given the TM 1 point of stun.
TM has to resist fading at the end of the 12 hours complex action.
He does not have any actions left that AP to apply a stimulant patch or use the medkit with out its unregistered sprite.

The registering of the sprite the sprite got 8 successes on the opposed test. TM has Willpower of 6 and a Resonance of 6 total of 12 dice, average of 4 hits, so 4 points of physical damage is left.

The TM has 4 points of physical damage and 1 point of stun damage, before he can use the stimulant patch or the medkit(with out a sprite). Applying a rating 6 stimulant patch removes the 1 point of stun(simple action). Using the medkit rating 6(complex action) with a built in logic of 6 with a -1 from the physical damage, -2 from being a TM, and for remote use of Medkit -2 so TM has 7 dice average of 2 successes.

So now the TM has 2 boxes of physical damage and after 60 minutes 1 box of stun.

That damage the TM has to heal naturally. :D

If the TM used any edge to lessen the fade impact, he will more than likely be out of edge until sometime later during or at the end of the run.

So go ahead and register those rating 12 sprites up to you charisma rating. Just make sure you do it in between runs, and doing so will take about 6 runs before you get all six of a charisma 6. With out edge,,,I do not think the TM will survive the runs. :P

WMS

[Arashi]

Unless there has been a rule change somewhere... the TM is NOT going to survive registering any Rating 12 Sprite.

Reference: SR4, pp237, bottom right:

"If the rating of the threaded complex form exceeds the technomancer's Resonance, the damage is Physical rather than Stun."

and

"For compiling or registering a sprite, the Fading DV equals twice the hits (not net hits) generated by the sprite on the Opposed Test"

Ok, those 8 successes that the rating 12 sprite will achieve on average will produce SIXTEEN (16) boxes of physical damage. Um, yeah.

Heal that naturally with your 2 body, because I know the team mage isn't going to want to risk the drain on touching that one.

I play a TM in my game, and after over a year and around 210 karma I'm only at Resonance 7 (and 2 body, still)... I have taken weeks and weeks between-run downtime to just build my stable of rating 7 Sprites and maintain them with a good amount of services each. That rule about Fading = (2 x the base sprite successes) really keeps you hopping. With the rolls I've had and the damage I've had to rest off, I can't see even trying to Register anything over my Resonance just for fear of the immense physical damage I could take.