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#1
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 573 Joined: 17-September 07 Member No.: 13,319 ![]() |
My PC has a Response 3 commlink and a Pilot 3 minidrone.
If I want to use the commlink for EW, I could buy a Rating 3 Agent for $3000, the EW autosoft at rating 3 ($600), Sniffer 3 ($1500), Decrypt 3 ($1500). If I want to use the drone for EW, I buy the EW autosoft at rating 3 ($600), and Decrypt 3 ($1500); I don't need Agent because the drone has built-in Pilot; and for $150, I can install a Radio Scanner lvl 6, which acts as Sniffer 6. Looks like the drone is the far, far better option, not requiring an Agent or a Sniffer program. Am I missing something? Does installing a radio scanner really fulfill all the abilities of the Sniffer program? On BBB p. 227, under the description of the Spoof program, the only listed use is the "Redirect" action. However, the section on the Spoof Command, p. 224, says that the Spoof program is used with the Spoof Command action. Which is correct? If the Agent on my commlink or the Pilot on my drone wants to send commands to someone else's drone, it needs to roll Hacking skill plus Spoof program. I don't see an autosoft that replicates the Hacking skill. -1 for defaulting, plus the Spoof program rating? |
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#2
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Immoral Elf ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 ![]() |
Agents and Pilots use their Rating in place of Skills like Hacking and EW.
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#3
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 573 Joined: 17-September 07 Member No.: 13,319 ![]() |
A Pilot can have the EW Autosoft; does the Rating of the EW autosoft add, with their Pilot Rating, to the dice pool for "intercept, decrypt, jam signals" and related actions (quoted text from p. 240)?
If so, that gives Pilots a big advantage over Agents for such tasks. It also makes a metahuman hacker much less replacable than a metahuman EW specialist. If not, then what's the benefit, if any, of an EW autosoft rating higher than 1? |
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#4
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The Dragon Never Sleeps ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Admin Posts: 6,924 Joined: 1-September 05 Member No.: 7,667 ![]() |
p, 240
"Electronic Warfare Th is provides the drone with an in-depth knowledge of radio communications and the use of electronic warfare against them. A Pilot with this autosoft can intercept, decrypt, jam signals, and take on other actions made possible by the Electronic Warfare skill (see p. 225)." The roll will be EW Autosoft + Program Not Pilot + AUtosoft + Program Skill + Program is the model for wireless dice pools. |
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#5
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Immoral Elf ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 ![]() |
So then, it is only Agents that use their Rating in place of the actual Skill?
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#6
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 573 Joined: 17-September 07 Member No.: 13,319 ![]() |
Ah, good point DireRadiant, but if Fortune is accurate then one can just use Pilot rating instead of Skill, which means that the autosoft conveys no improvement to the dice pool (unless a drone can use an autosoft at a higher rating than its Pilot rating, which strikes me as inconsistent unless the Pilot has a lower rating than the Response of the drone's hardware).
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#7
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The Dragon Never Sleeps ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Admin Posts: 6,924 Joined: 1-September 05 Member No.: 7,667 ![]() |
p. 214
"In game terms, the Pilot attribute stands in for Computer, Cybercombat, Data Search, and Hacking skills, as called for. It may also represent an agent, IC, or drone’s “Mental attributes� when called for (usually Intuition and Logic, and sometimes Willpower)." Note that EW is not on that list. Therefore when rolling EW.. Pilot Skill of 0 + Program |
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#8
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panda! ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 ![]() |
Interesting interpretation. I would say its more like:
Drones use autosofts Agents use hacker software |
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#9
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 573 Joined: 17-September 07 Member No.: 13,319 ![]() |
Agents are specialized in the virtual world while Pilots are the equivalent of "dual natured", running hardware that moves in meatspace while also acting as a node in contact with other nodes. But can an Agent run an EW autosoft, since that's all about abstract signals? if not as RAW, as a viable houserule? In general... what's a good limit on the AI of an Agent?
A rigger can operate a drone's guns, either as captain's-chair or jumped in, and if she has decent Gunnery+AGL, the drone's fire will be more accurate when directed by the rigger, than when the drone is operating on its own. Could a Rating 6 Agent operating on a Response 6 commlink, run a drone and direct its fire more effectively than the drone's low-end "dogbrain"? I see a market for an AI program that runs on a commlink and can direct a group of drones as a coordinated fireteam... indeed, possibly assigning targets based on EW intel, eg lay down suppressing fire at locations where the radio scanner indicates that someone's operating a commlink, even if no target appears on visual scanners. (An AI getting signal scanner input from multiple drones should be able to triangulate locations of RF-broadcasting devices.) |
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#10
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Immoral Elf ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 ![]() |
That's what I always thought. |
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#11
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panda! ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 ![]() |
but now that i think about it, that makes a EW autosoft equiped drone even more scary! pilot and EW autosoft at 6, as big a signal rating as you can get away with, and stick it in a blimp... |
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#12
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Shooting Target ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1,512 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 392 ![]() |
You'd still have the limitation of System = Response. So buy Response 5 and everything works at lower of System or 5.
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#13
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Dragon ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 4,664 Joined: 21-September 04 From: Arvada, CO Member No.: 6,686 ![]() |
And Pilot = System
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#14
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Great Dragon ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 7,089 Joined: 4-October 05 Member No.: 7,813 ![]() |
all that is required to use an autosoft is a pilot rating. agents have a pilot rating. therefore they can use autosofts.
the advantage to a pilot program over an agent in terms of dealing with computers is that your agent: 1) counts as a running program 2) needs to have a command program to be able to control devices at all. whereas the pilot: 1) does not count as a running program 2) does not need any sort of special program to control most devices (with the exception of weapons, oddly). this means that on average, a pilot of a given rating can have 2 more active programs than an agent of the same rating. which is a fairly significant difference, imo ;) as far as "no rules for tripod/bipod/etc", i would direct your attention to the rules. feel free to point out where it says that vehicle mounted weapons do not have accessory mounts. let me know if you find somewhere, because i sure haven't. conclusion: vehicle mounted weapons *do* have accessory mounts, and therefore anything with an 'under' mount can be given a bipod or tripod (though i personally would represent this as extra bracing or whatever in the mount rather than an actual bipod or tripod for drones). |
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#15
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Immoral Elf ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 ![]() |
So why can't I use a Pilot program on my Commlink instead of an Agent (or indeed instead of System)?
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#16
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Great Dragon ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 7,089 Joined: 4-October 05 Member No.: 7,813 ![]() |
there is no explicit reason =P however, i would consider ruling that the only way direct control over the commlink could be achieved would be to effectively rig it, thus overriding the pilot program entirely (note: you're not *actually* rigging it, you're just taking direct control and turning off the pilot program basically). i would probably also not let you run an agent on the commlink, but that's pure houserule. the pilot program, in any case, would be stuck to the commlink (so forget about sending it out to search the matrix) and would not be able to operate at the same time as you. it would be an excellent means of defending your commlink when you're afk (so to speak) but otherwise not really all that impressive. i'd probably throw in a few more houserules for good measure, personally, but it would theoretically be doable. |
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#17
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Mr. Johnson ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,148 Joined: 27-February 06 From: UCAS Member No.: 8,314 ![]() |
I don't have the book in front of me, but I believe that this is more accurately "does not need any sort of special program to control the type of device for which it was designed." |
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#18
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Great Dragon ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 7,089 Joined: 4-October 05 Member No.: 7,813 ![]() |
no, that's a common houserule though. the rules don't say anything about pilot programs applying only to specific devices. but a lot of people think there's a problem with a doberman pilot being the same as a stormcloud pilot =P |
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#19
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 573 Joined: 17-September 07 Member No.: 13,319 ![]() |
Sure, and the drone/vehicle gets bipod/tripod RC whenever it sits, kneels, or fires from prone. Somehow I'm not quite satisfied that you've fully addressed the question. |
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#20
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The Dragon Never Sleeps ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Admin Posts: 6,924 Joined: 1-September 05 Member No.: 7,667 ![]() |
Pilots/Agents are special software in that it can be both an OS and a Program.
On a commlink, or any device with an OS already, it acts as a program. On a device without it's own OS, it can act as OS and system. There's no reason you couldn't get rid of the OS on a commlink and have your Agent act as it's OS. Except that then it can't wander off and operate independently. There's no reason for a vehicle pilot to not have both an OS and a Pilot program. Except that since the Pilot software can act as it's own OS, and it's probably undesirable for the Pilot software to leave the device it's running in the case of your urban commuter vehicle, and it's cheaper to install one program instead of two. |
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#21
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Immoral Elf ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 ![]() |
So, what benefits would (or could) a person gain by replacing his Commlink's OS with a Pilot? And couldn't he also just run an Agent on that Commlink as well?
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#22
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Shooting Target ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1,512 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 392 ![]() |
No...the problem I have with your interpretation of the rules is that a Pilot program designed for a Doberman shouldn't be able to operate: 1) Industrial Machinery 2) Household Appliances (eg wet/dry vacuum, window cleaner) 3) Medical Drones etc. |
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#23
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ghostrider ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Retired Admins Posts: 4,196 Joined: 16-May 04 Member No.: 6,333 ![]() |
And for good reason. |
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#24
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Great Dragon ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 7,089 Joined: 4-October 05 Member No.: 7,813 ![]() |
i never said it was a poorly-thought-out house rule, just that it's a house rule that's fairly widespread, and i gave the reason for the thinking behind it.
i personally have no major problems assuming that the pilot program basically connects to programming built-in to the body it's controlling (that is, a doberman has the information to control it built-in, and the pilot just tells that programming what to do, with a higher-rating pilot being both smarter and better able to integrate itself into the control interface) but i can certainly understand how some people don't like that approach =P |
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#25
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 103 Joined: 21-August 07 Member No.: 12,814 ![]() |
I found this thread and didn't really read a consensus. A drone will use Autosoft + Pilot for most actions. Reading the EW autosoft, it sounds like it supplants the other EW programs a hacker would normally use (
).
This would mean that a drone uses EW Autosoft rating + Pilot Rating, which would make sense. Using Pilot + Program or EW Autosoft + Program would mean the drone would need different programs, which I think the book would have mentioned (Is there any case where a drone must use a program that isn't an autosoft?). Thoughts? Thanks! |
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