 Shadowrun shooter |
 Oct 25 2007, 01:01 AM
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#1
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 197 Joined: 15-June 05 From: Portland, Or. Member No.: 7,447  |
so i was just talking to someone who meet and spoke with the designers for the new Shadowrun game. It seems that the reason that the game was built to be a shooter like Counter strike was because from what they saw or read, that is what shadowrun is all about; that is it's in spirit.
Do you agree. i don't, but i'm interested in what everyone has to say. |
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Oct 25 2007, 01:11 AM
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#2
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,010 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
I would say that this confirms previous estimations of the designers' knowledge of Shadowrun.
Certainly the combat system is one of the highlights of Shadowrun 2nd and 3rd edition, but most of it comes out in things like pool use and differences in potential quantity of action—things that are essentially impossible to duplicate in a multiplayer counterstrike-like form. ~J |
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Oct 25 2007, 01:54 AM
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#3
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
Shadowrun is about having pieces of your soul cut out and replaced with metal; putting on Bruce Willis' tanktop, Patrick Swayzee's bluejeans, Harrison Ford's trenchcoat, and Arnold's sunglasses; grabbing Keanu's guitar, Ford's pistol, and Leonardo's sword; getting into Michael Keaton's car; plugging Matthew Broderick's computer into your head; and negotiating with a dragon on Michael J. Fox's videophone while listening to You Spin Me Right Round.
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Oct 25 2007, 02:15 AM
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#4
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Old Man Jones Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,415 Joined: 26-February 02 From: New York Member No.: 1,699 |
Absolutely not. In a shadowrun, a firefight usually means that you've screwed up. Shadowrunning is about the people that fell through the cracks of society, the unseen operators that do the jobs that the corporations can't officially be seen doing themselves. The ideal shadowrun means you got away with the objective of your mission without firing a shot or letting anyone notice you doing it. If you're REALLY good, the place you hit never realizes anything happened at all. That FPS game? All it took away from the roleplaying game is the art and look from the covers. Nobody making the computer game bothered to look at any of the content inside the books. -karma |
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Oct 25 2007, 02:28 AM
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#5
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Deus Absconditus Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,742 Joined: 1-September 03 From: Downtown Seattle, UCAS Member No.: 5,566 |
If you're looking for a game that is closest to what "shadowrun is all about", then honestly? I think the original Splinter Cell was about as good as it gets. If we can discount plot and style, maybe Rainbow Six.
I mean, Deus Ex was amazing, but it wasn't shadowrun enough for me because of some ineffable quality I can't define. Basically, since shadowrunners: 1) commit crimes for money, 2) do not really exist within the system, 3) operate in a generally covert fashion, that's what informed my opinion. There's really nothing that's 'shadowrun' out there, but there are many things that are MORE shadowrun than "Shadow Run." |
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Oct 25 2007, 02:37 AM
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#6
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,010 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
I think you'd be hard-pressed to back that up from, well, basically anything in the fiction. In a shadowrun, a firefight that the other side knew was coming means you've screwed up. Not saying that "ghost runs" don't exist, but, well, let's be serious, if they were plausible the corp could just use in-house talent to do it. Shadowrunners exist because they are deniable, and they need to be deniable because they will be seen and shot at and have their bodies recovered and occasionally be captured alive. ~J |
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Oct 25 2007, 04:11 AM
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#7
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 197 Joined: 15-June 05 From: Portland, Or. Member No.: 7,447 |
i just don't like the assumption that shot outs are what shadowrun is all about.
wheres the mystery, wheres the hacking the matrix for data and hitting the streets for clues/info. wheres the Johnsons and the negotiations; the wheeling and dealing wheres the kidnapping, body guarding, bank robbery, party crashing, etc. Big deal, every other game has shooting.. |
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Oct 25 2007, 04:21 AM
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#8
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,010 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Yeah, there's that, too.
Really, he should have looked at the Shadowrun card game for an idea of what Shadowrun was all about. No one can read the text on Block Party, Green Apple Quicksteps, and Saeder-Krupp and still think Shadowrun is all about shootouts. ~J |
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Oct 25 2007, 04:32 AM
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#9
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 197 Joined: 15-June 05 From: Portland, Or. Member No.: 7,447 |
true true
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Oct 25 2007, 05:07 AM
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#10
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 249 Joined: 2-November 06 From: Bozeman, MT Member No.: 9,762 |
Hmmm....
I actually agree to a certain extent. When I think shadowrun, I think badass characters firing badass weapons (or slinging major mojo, or eviscerating the opposition with a katana) in a gritty, near future setting. To me the first layer of shadow run is combat. How much cyberpunk exists without violent confrontation? Now, that being said, there is certainly more to shadowrun than combat. But I think I came for the combat, and stayed for the setting (including the other aspects of shadowrun besides the eponymous activity). When I envision shadowrun, I actually see more as a 1st or 3rd person shooter. Of course if I were making the game I would have used more RPG elements but still, shadowruns are in many ways like cs. The violent and objective based nature of the games ensures their similarity. Someone mentioned that they think that 'runs are more about stealth, someone else replied that those are rare, well CS matches can actually be one without fireing shots, these are rare though. In SR, like CS, you have to balance speed, stealth, and firepower. Both also have a heavy does of team based tactics. So, yeah, I don't think the computer game's devs were that wrong in their approach, perhaps they erred in implementation, but the general idea wasn't that bad. just my 2 :nuyen: . |
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Oct 25 2007, 05:11 AM
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#11
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,010 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
The relationship between shadowruns and stealth is nuanced. My personal position has been that the general trajectory of a well-planned run (and of course they will all vary) will involve a dead-silent infiltration, and then blasting out with guns blazing so you're well clear before security can make any kind of response.
Of course, that requires your GM to not use the canon response times, which contradict the principle that teleportation is not possible in Shadowrun. ~J |
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Oct 25 2007, 10:17 AM
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#12
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Awakened Asset Group: Members Posts: 4,464 Joined: 9-April 05 From: AGS, North German League Member No.: 7,309 |
Thats more to the point than "shot fired = run hosed". Most times, our plan is about planned and precise application of force. Doing things without violence happens, but can not be considered the norm.
And that could be done in a PC game. X-Box Online I don´t know. Randomly combining a license and a type of game that the strategy department wants... |
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Oct 25 2007, 12:38 PM
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#13
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The ShadowComedian Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 14,538 Joined: 3-October 07 From: Hamburg, AGS Member No.: 13,525 |
worst part about this whole affair is the fact, that microsuck killed off an SR MMORPG in the making that was allready in alpha stadium . .
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Oct 25 2007, 02:30 PM
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#14
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 197 Joined: 15-June 05 From: Portland, Or. Member No.: 7,447 |
wait.... what? |
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Oct 25 2007, 02:45 PM
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#15
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
I wouldn't worry. It is quite an overstatement.
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Oct 25 2007, 03:39 PM
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#16
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,010 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
The question is where Alpha Stadium is, and what sports go on there?
~J |
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Oct 25 2007, 03:50 PM
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#17
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 152 Joined: 11-May 06 Member No.: 8,547 |
the game itself failed in a number of ways.
incomplete content. (lacking more than 1 model per race per side, models floated up ladders, etc...) too few maps(10). no announced support for modders. and only 1 or 2 game types. don't forget the lack of orcs the concept of the game being made into a shooter is fine. That is making the game to fit the FPS role, shadowrun has alot of tactics involved in its combat system. I think that they really should have stuck more with cannon and allowed the customization that is found in the rpg. |
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Oct 25 2007, 03:55 PM
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#18
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,010 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Oh yeah, it'd be difficult but I do think it's possible to make a Shadowrun FPS worth playing (now, a Shadowrun shooter would be awesome--maybe a T-bird against swarms of Strato-9s or something?). However, there's a difference between "you can do it" and "it is the fundamental nature of Shadowrun".
Counterstrike-style multiplayer play is even further from the nature of Shadowrun, as Shadowrunners typically face opposition that is drastically asymmetrical--typically inferior in training and equipment, but vastly superior in quantity and position. ~J |
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Oct 25 2007, 03:58 PM
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#19
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 976 Joined: 16-September 04 From: Near my daughters, Lansdale PA Member No.: 6,668 |
I do not agree and if that is what the designers think it is what the game is about, then the owners of the material should consider a different game design company because these guys were not listening and are producing a flop.
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Oct 25 2007, 03:59 PM
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#20
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,009 Joined: 25-September 06 From: Paris, France Member No.: 9,466 |
Shadowrun FPS a la CS could make a great... mod.
Corps vs Runners. HL2 Dystopia mod in the (real) Shadowrun universe. But I'd expect much more from a stand alone game. |
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Oct 25 2007, 04:04 PM
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#21
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 438 Joined: 21-September 07 From: Houston Member No.: 13,369 |
thank you :rotfl: |
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Oct 25 2007, 04:10 PM
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#22
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 438 Joined: 21-September 07 From: Houston Member No.: 13,369 |
the producers were the owners Micro$oft owns the videogame rights to BT and SR. They went ahead recently and dissolved the "company" and have of course kept the IPs. most likely SR as far as videogames will sit and rot, since they have "proven it isnt viable in the videogame market" by making a game that: 1. Doesn't appeal to the actual SR fanbase (for the most part) 2. was sub par for the type of game it became(from most of what I've heard) and 3. Was built as Vista only (w/o modifications) and cut out the smarter(IMHO) people who have stuck with XP vs Vista |
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Oct 25 2007, 04:24 PM
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#23
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,010 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
And how about the smarter (IMNSHO) people who haven't stuck with Microsoft products in the first place? ;)
~J |
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Oct 25 2007, 05:52 PM
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#24
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 438 Joined: 21-September 07 From: Houston Member No.: 13,369 |
true I enjoy having a mac and a pc as soon as I can afford it (both money and space) I'm going to setup a linux system as well |
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Oct 25 2007, 06:57 PM
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#25
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 179 Joined: 8-June 05 From: Montréal, République du Québec Member No.: 7,433 |
For those of us not in the know, care to share the flavour text? :D |
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