 Please Answer Me This..., Generic SR4 rules questions |
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 Nov 2 2007, 09:06 AM
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Target  Group: Members Posts: 56 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 283  |
Hello!
I've just started running a Shadowrun game, and I have a few questions regarding rules. (I'm sorry if these have been asked before.) 1) Where can I find the prices for the drugs on pages 248-250? (I have a player whose character has an addiction to one of these.) 2) Is there someplace I can find a reference chart for matrix rolls and opposed rolls? 3) In character creation, if a character has an Essence of 5, can they have a Magic of 5 by spending 40 points, or do they have to spend 65? (I've houseruled the former, but I'd like to know the official rule.) 4) Why take a respirator over a gas mask? Is there a typo in cost? 5) On page 260-261, it states that Forged IDs make an opposed test versus the verification system. Where can I find information on verification systems and what level of system is appropriate for particular places? 6) Where are the rules for rounding? Thanks! I'm sure I'll have more questions later. -~GitM |
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Nov 2 2007, 09:31 AM
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#2
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
There are none as of yet in SR4 (maybe in Arsenal). You could do a search on these forums for Drugs, as there are a couple of threads with some suggested price lists.
knasser has some stuff here. There are a couple of other forum members that have useful websites, but I don't have them in saved at the moment.
Technically, it's the latter, although I don't think it is too bad of a house rule to do it as you have done.
I dunno. Go for the Respirator. ;)
I had a brief look, but couldn't find it. :( |
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Nov 2 2007, 09:35 AM
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#3
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Prime Runner Group: Banned Posts: 3,732 Joined: 1-September 05 From: Prague, Czech Republic Member No.: 7,665 |
1> Man and Machine. Ha! Last I checked, there was supposed to be some drug prices in Arsenal.
2> Ug. No. 3> During character generation, you purchase up your Magic Attribute and then your Magic attribute goes down from Essence loss. So to have a Magic of 5 and an Essence of 5, you have to buy a Magic of 6 (for 65 points) and then watch your reduced Essence drop it down to 5. 4> The same reason that you take a respirator over a gas mask today. A gas mask is a self-contained breathing apparatus. There's an actual tank of compressed air and you breathe only that. There's no chance of accidentally breathing poison gas, because you aren't breathing the outside air at all. However, it's uncomfortable, heavy, limited in duration, and not stylish at all. Yes, the protection from wearing and breathing from an O2 tank with no gas exchange with the outside world is more than simply wearing a mask - but seriously how many people do you see running around with dust masks? How many with SCUBA tanks? 5> All over Dumpshock. In general, most places run around with verification systems in the 1-3 range. -Frank |
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Nov 2 2007, 09:42 AM
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#4
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Target Group: Members Posts: 5 Joined: 11-October 07 Member No.: 13,661 |
There are no prices given. You can just rule the prices as you see fit.
I don't have any idea where to find that. I want to write this myself but it will be german:)
It's 65 BP, since an essence of 5 reduces your maximal magic to 5 too. So the rules of maxing out attributes have to be applied. Notice, that the order doesn't matter: You could argue that the magic was bought first, and the ware implated is the second step. But then it's obvious that you have to start with a magic of 6 to end up with a magic of 5 after implantation. To your 5th question you can find propabely something in this forum using the search function. Frank was faster than me This post has been edited by Hank Chinanski: Nov 2 2007, 09:44 AM |
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Nov 2 2007, 10:07 AM
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#5
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Yeah yeah! What about me? I beat ya both! :P * *though some of Frank's answers were more comprehensive. |
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Nov 2 2007, 10:26 AM
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#6
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Awakened Asset Group: Members Posts: 4,464 Joined: 9-April 05 From: AGS, North German League Member No.: 7,309 |
Verification Systems unfortunately have to use the device rating table in the wireless chapter. I´d run with Franks 1-3 for fast scans (police drones on patrol) and 5+ for deep scans (airports etc).
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Nov 2 2007, 10:26 AM
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#7
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Target Group: Members Posts: 5 Joined: 11-October 07 Member No.: 13,661 |
Sorry, I saw your post later than Frank's and was too idle to edit my post again ;) Respect, you was the fastest:) |
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Nov 2 2007, 01:29 PM
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#8
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,159 Joined: 12-April 07 From: Ork Underground Member No.: 11,440 |
@FrankTrollman
Gas mask filters the air, it is not a self contained air breathing system. I know I have used them many times in my Military service. :) Now what SR4 defines as a respirator... Wiki says "A respirator is a device designed to protect the wearer from inhaling harmful dusts, fumes, vapors, and/or gases. Respirators come in a wide range of types and sizes used by the military, private industry, and the public. There are two main categories: the air-purifying respirator, which forces contaminated air through a filtering element, and the air-supplied respirator, in which an alternate supply of fresh air is delivered. Within each category, different techniques are employed to reduce or eliminate noxious airborne contents." Wiki about gas masks "A gas mask is a mask worn over the face to protect the wearer from inhaling airborne pollutants and toxic materials. The mask forms a sealed cover over the nose and mouth, but may also cover the eyes and other vulnerable soft tissues of the face. Some gas masks are also respirators, though the word gas mask is often used to refer to military equipment " WMS |
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Nov 2 2007, 01:46 PM
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 212 Joined: 30-November 04 Member No.: 6,858 |
I'd say completely the opposite, a gasmask filters air, a respirator is self contained, but that's the opposite of how the rules work. If you go back into earlier editions, there is no gasmask, only respirators are available, and they have gas tanks, you could even buy them with regulators so you could use them under water at depth. |
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Nov 2 2007, 01:53 PM
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#10
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
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Nov 2 2007, 01:57 PM
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#11
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 212 Joined: 30-November 04 Member No.: 6,858 |
When it comes to an inhalation vector there is no difference between covering the eyes and mouth and the entire face. It's INHALATION that's the clue.
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Nov 2 2007, 02:04 PM
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#12
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Well, according to the rules, the difference is immunity vs. a +6 dice bonus (at best). ;) |
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Nov 2 2007, 02:07 PM
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#13
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 212 Joined: 30-November 04 Member No.: 6,858 |
Yeppers, think this section of the rules needs a little tinkering...
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Nov 2 2007, 02:09 PM
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#14
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Man Behind the Curtain Group: Admin Posts: 14,871 Joined: 2-July 89 From: End of the Yellow-Brick Road Member No.: 3 |
It should be noted that a gas mask does NOT filter biological agents, only chemical ones.
The difference is in the filtration. Gas Masks typically use charcoal based filters where as a Respirator usually use significantly less effective filters. EDIT: And you get hit by CS gas or tear gas or some of the others and see if the full face protection doesn't make a difference... :P |
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Nov 2 2007, 02:32 PM
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#15
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 212 Joined: 30-November 04 Member No.: 6,858 |
Under the RAW neither a Gas Mask or a Respirator protect against CS/Tear Gas as they have inhalation AND contact vectors. Masks and Respirators only apply to the inhalation part of that... |
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Nov 2 2007, 04:36 PM
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#16
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 232 Joined: 7-October 07 Member No.: 13,604 |
So this means that if you buy magic of 3 and have essence 6, then get your arm ripped off, dropping you to essence 4, your magic drops to 1? |
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Nov 2 2007, 04:43 PM
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#17
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,453 Joined: 17-September 04 From: St. Paul Member No.: 6,675 |
Yup, thats how I read it. |
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Nov 2 2007, 04:45 PM
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#18
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 212 Joined: 30-November 04 Member No.: 6,858 |
Except that losing an arm is probably only worth 1 essence rather than 2, yep that's how it works.
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Nov 2 2007, 04:46 PM
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#19
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,159 Joined: 12-April 07 From: Ork Underground Member No.: 11,440 |
@Redjack Gas masks do filter the inhalation biological agents. Those in the military did, when I was serving. WMS |
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Nov 2 2007, 04:51 PM
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#20
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 398 Joined: 16-August 06 Member No.: 9,130 |
In regard to question number 2. I believe veggiesama has made a quick reference sheet for the matrix, including page numbers. The sheets also have many other rules mechanics on them. Perfect for the beginning player or even the veteran that needs a quick rules clarification. If someone is familiar with the location of these sheets, could you post the link?
EDIT: After a search I located them. They are very handy. http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=18083 |
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Nov 2 2007, 05:52 PM
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#21
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Man Behind the Curtain Group: Admin Posts: 14,871 Joined: 2-July 89 From: End of the Yellow-Brick Road Member No.: 3 |
Sorry, but you were misinformed. They do not. I say this from experience as an NBC NCO. -Redjack EDIT: I do remember my training unit being surprised by this, but one thing got us even worse than the fact that MOP4 is useless against an airborne biological agent... The fact that while we can detect and identify 100% of all chemical agents, we can only detect a handful (of potentially millions?) of biological agents and treat/counter less than 5% of the known ones. Thats reassuring! |
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Nov 2 2007, 05:55 PM
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Man Behind the Curtain Group: Admin Posts: 14,871 Joined: 2-July 89 From: End of the Yellow-Brick Road Member No.: 3 |
Technically there are an inhalant, but they will irritate the eyes.. Though that could be said that most chemical compounds will irritate the eyes... So there we are. ;) |
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Nov 2 2007, 05:59 PM
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Genuine Artificial Intelligence Group: Members Posts: 4,019 Joined: 12-June 03 Member No.: 4,715 |
Well, it's just a difference between "all" and "some". :D For example, if the "biological agent" in question is an old dude with tuberculosis standing next to you, the gas mask should filter any droplets he ejects just fine. ;) |
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Nov 2 2007, 06:02 PM
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Man Behind the Curtain Group: Admin Posts: 14,871 Joined: 2-July 89 From: End of the Yellow-Brick Road Member No.: 3 |
Hahahha.... I stand corrected. I meant truly airborne agents as opposed to airborne projectiles of biological agents. :P |
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Nov 2 2007, 08:03 PM
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#25
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,537 Joined: 27-August 06 From: Albuquerque NM Member No.: 9,234 |
You have it backwards, but then so do the Shadowrun rules. (What would SR be without developers who can't look up the meaning of words ? Offensive/defensive, velocity/rate of fire, magazine/clip, etc.) A respirator is a superclass that includes all types of protection against inhaled gases, dusts, etc. see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Respirator. There are two classes, and SR4 provides two examples of filtering respirators. A "gas mask" is a air purifying respirator that has filters against chemical agents. Exactly what agents it protects against depends on the filters. No air supply. This is what the "gas mask" in SR4 is. Oddly enough, it's also what the "respirator" in SR4 is. An SCBA is a type of respirator that provides an air supply. This means it has a heavy tank full of air under very high pressure. There are no examples of air supplying respirators in SR4 to date. There may have been an intent to do so, but nothing made it to finished product. I have no idea why they provide two different bad examples of gas masks, as a properly fitted gas mask with the right filters provides total protection against inhaled gases. |
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