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#1
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 490 Joined: 29-August 06 From: Texas Member No.: 9,245 ![]() |
Ok. I have a coconut. I take a old school 35 mil pic of it. I mail it to Al Sharptree. while the snail mail is doing its thing I develop the pic and study its contents closely. I have already learned sympathetic linking ahead of time and know a few fellows who also are steamed at him. The 3 of us get together and start a ritual circle. I create the link to him through the picture, then we proceed to toast his hoop with a Force N fireball. One less annoying politician.
Do I more or less have the right idea here?(not with the assassination of politicians in general but how the power works) For a more innocent use, I could nail a picture of my keys to my wall, and use a ritual spell to find them. |
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#2
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 232 Joined: 7-October 07 Member No.: 13,604 ![]() |
Problem 1: Al Sharptree has aids. If Al Sharptree is a prominent politician, what happens when his secretary opens the package (and you thought I was going to say he had a debilitating disease...)? Does she suddenly become the one linked instead? Problem 2: Al Sharptree doesn't like coconuts. If Al Sharptree chooses to toss the coconut into the trash without taking it out of the box cause he doesn't like coconuts, does the coconut link to him? Problem 3: UCASPS sucks. Over the course of it's trip through the mail, at least 4-6 people have touched the package. Does the coconut link to them? ----- 1) Yes, at least for a little while. If he gets it after, it'll link to him, but only temporarily. 2) No. It won't link to him unless he touches it. 3) No, unless they open the box and touch it. Unfortunately, a photo of the coconut won't help since you need the object itself, unless you're using the photo as a symbolic link (requiring metamagic and multiple parts). Regardless, the link only lasts for a few minutes.
This means you a) need to know when the package is opened, b) need to make sure its him who picks it up, and c) need to work hella fast. Your better bet is to follow Mr. Sharptree around and grab a burger wrapper or cup that he tosses in the trash or litters. Even better than trying to send him a coconut and getting it exactly right, grab something important of his. If you can get his comm link, you've got an "oft handled object." If you can grab his wedding ring or favorite tie, you've got a "favored object." Both of these are better for rituals and have longer lasting links. Of course, in all these cases, you'd still need the sympathetic link metamagic. If you want to spy on him or attack him from afar without that metamagic (gained at initiation if you so choose), you're going to need a piece of him, either a strand of hair, some blood, or another piece of his DNA. Unlike forensics, however, the magic usability deteriorates.
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#3
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Target ![]() Group: Members Posts: 91 Joined: 24-September 07 Member No.: 13,404 ![]() |
Err, I think the idea is to use a symbolic link to the coconut, targeting the coconut with the fireball and catching the real target in the fireballs indirect area.
In other words, this is a magic mail bomb that doesn't show as dangerous until an hour after the start of the ritual. Anything could be used, so long as you can get it into proximity of the target. |
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#4
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 232 Joined: 7-October 07 Member No.: 13,604 ![]() |
It would still require the sympathetic link metamagic and I'm still not sure a photo could be used.
Since a photo is created by chemical processes instead of by the mage, I would suspect it wouldn't fit the bolded section above. In addition, since it takes only moment to make a photo, it would destroy the idea of the interval of days to create a symbolic link. Regardless, I don't see why you wouldn't just pluck a few hairs off the coconut and use that for a material link to the coconut. Of course, the question of whether those hairs would link to the coconut or to the coconut tree is up to the GM. |
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#5
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 295 Joined: 10-July 05 Member No.: 7,492 ![]() |
So what's a picture if not a photo? It seems to me that something painted is even farther removed from the original object than a photo. |
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#6
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panda! ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 ![]() |
a drawing or painting done by the casters own hands, to grab more then just the image of the person ;)
also, can one use indirect combat spells this way at all? would it not go of the moment it his the nearest wall to the caster? |
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#7
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Canon Companion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 ![]() |
So is a photograph, only the tools are different. Unless the drawing or painting is a finger painting or drawn with only the artist's hands alone. |
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#8
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Runner ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 3,009 Joined: 25-September 06 From: Paris, France Member No.: 9,466 ![]() |
Well, if it's really necessary, you can do a sculpture, a painting or a doll of the coconut.
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#9
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Immortal Elf ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 ![]() |
Draw a circle on a piece of paper that, to you, looks roughly like the coconut.
Nothing says it has to be a masterpiece of artistry, and it works more because it represents that particular coconut to you rather than it actually representing that coconut. Voodoo dolls hardly look like the person they represent, so why would a picture need to? |
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#10
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Great Dragon ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 6,748 Joined: 5-July 02 Member No.: 2,935 ![]() |
Ah, this reminds of the old reverse ritual sorcery; where the man with the coconut could use it to backtrack the sender with the symbolic representation. Good times, good times.
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#11
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 633 Joined: 23-February 06 Member No.: 8,301 ![]() |
The answer is yes. This works. It'd work with Manaball or Powerball or any other area effect spell. The issue is ensuring that the target will have the object near them when the spell goes off. I think a necktie is a better choice than a coconut, myself.
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#12
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Runner ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 3,009 Joined: 25-September 06 From: Paris, France Member No.: 9,466 ![]() |
@Doc: Actually you roll an Intuition+Artisan test, so you need to be a good enough artist (or intuitive enough, or edgy enough)
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#13
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Dragon ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 4,664 Joined: 21-September 04 From: Arvada, CO Member No.: 6,686 ![]() |
Why use symbolic linking at all? Take some hairs from the coconut, and use them as a material link to the coconut to fireball it. That way you don't eat that -6 penalty for symbolic magic.
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#14
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Deus Absconditus ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,742 Joined: 1-September 03 From: Downtown Seattle, UCAS Member No.: 5,566 ![]() |
Good catch.
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#15
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 232 Joined: 7-October 07 Member No.: 13,604 ![]() |
As a photographer, I'd love to argue the validity of the photograph as a work of art and as representative of the subject. Still, the fact is that even the best photographer is at the mercy of the situation. He may frame the photo, choose the props, pick the subject, and adjust shutter speed, focus, and aperture, but at the end of the day, he's still choosing from the photos he's taken trying to pick the best one. The art, in the end, is a chemical process. With a drawing or painting, the artists invests himself in the process. To me, it's this investment that creates the symbolic link.
I'm right with you, Tarantula, but what happens if the material link is to the tree?
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#16
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Running Target ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1,180 Joined: 22-January 07 From: Rochester, NY Member No.: 10,737 ![]() |
Then the question is, if a tree bursts into flame on a beach somewhere, and no one is around to see it, is it still magic? :D |
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#17
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Deus Absconditus ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,742 Joined: 1-September 03 From: Downtown Seattle, UCAS Member No.: 5,566 ![]() |
Fundamentally, the mage cannot use a photograph because of the aforementioned day-long interval to 'create a link'. Unless you rule that linking photos take some severe darkroom wackiness. I personally would be fine with that, but I think it goes against the intent of the symbolic link because the mage is not using a tool to create a photograph - it is the tool itself which creates the photograph.
Kinda like the difference between baking bread and throwing all the ingredients in a bread maker, you know? Either way, the example holds out. If the mage can't take a photo, he can easily make a representation of the coconut using play-doh and cat hair. And Simon, the hairs won't link to the tree because the hairs grew on the coconut, not on the tree. Although the coconut may provide a link to the tree, I find it unlikely, as the coconut is a separate object for targeting. Same reason I can't use your blood to target your mom - after you left your mom, you became a separate target. |
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#18
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Target ![]() Group: Members Posts: 90 Joined: 25-May 07 From: Florianópolis, Brasil Member No.: 11,747 ![]() |
And three holes... don't ever forget the three holes. Every cartoon coconut in history have 3 "bowling ball like" holes on it. :grinbig:
At least for me the hair if from the coconut, not from the tree. Just as someone hair links to the person, and not to his mother. Adarael has been faster.
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: |
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#19
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 232 Joined: 7-October 07 Member No.: 13,604 ![]() |
Who's still using film in 2070 anyway? By then digital technology will be extremely cheap and extremely good. In addition, we're currently using up the last of the large format film because we don't have the material to keep making it for very long. Film will cease to be produced around the same time that gasoline rises to exorbitant prices. Of course, this is the 6th world timeline and not ours, so who knows if film is still being produced. Then again, if all cameras are trids at this point, how do you use film to create trid images?
So pulling a seed from an apple won't link to the apple since it's not the apple? What about a piece of a pinecone linking to a pine tree? Or how about an egg yolk linking back to the chicken? Coconuts have the same genetic material as the palm tree they come from, so I'd assume, much like with a piece of a person's DNA, it would link to the tree. At least for humor's sake, it would. |
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#20
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Immortal Elf ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 ![]() |
There's a reason they're called symbolic and sympathetic link. DNA has nothing to do with it, only will and desire. If you pluck a hair from a coconut with the intent of it connecting to that coconut, that's what it's going to be good for. Just like if you pluck a hair from the toupe Mr. X is wearing will let you ritually cast against Mr. X, since that's the desired effect.
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#21
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Target ![]() Group: Members Posts: 90 Joined: 25-May 07 From: Florianópolis, Brasil Member No.: 11,747 ![]() |
At least for me it´s more about "from where you taken that piece". If you take the seed from the apple, it should link to the apple... as a coconut would link to the tree if you take the coconut from it... as the hair taken from the coconut link to the coconut. (And, maybe, a piece of the apple seed taken from the seed would link to the seed, not the apple). |
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#22
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Dragon ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 4,664 Joined: 21-September 04 From: Arvada, CO Member No.: 6,686 ![]() |
Coconuts won't have the same genetic material to their tree any moreso than a baby has the same genetic material to its parents. The DNA isn't the same, and they aren't part of the same living organism. Doc Funk, I disagree on your toupee example. Sadly, if you pluck hair from Mr. X's toupee, and ritually cast a manabolt on it, then one day, Mr. X is in his business meeting, when his toupee suddenly shreds itself and a puff of hair explodes off his head, leaving him disheveled, confused, and bald, but not dead, as his toupee is.
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#23
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 232 Joined: 7-October 07 Member No.: 13,604 ![]() |
We're talking material link to the coconut here, not sympathetic or symbolic. The point was to avoid the dice penalty.
Seven alleles in common in the case of babies. Even more when it comes to plant DNA, which often asexually reproduces. That's not enough?
I'd argue that the toupee counts as an oft handled item. Or, if he's really self conscious, a favored item. Therefore, rather than targeting the toupee, you could use the hair as a symbolic or sympathetic link to him directly. It's even better if the toupee is made from body hair! |
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#24
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Dragon ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 4,664 Joined: 21-September 04 From: Arvada, CO Member No.: 6,686 ![]() |
"That's not enough?"
No, it isn't. Unless you can kidnap a kid, and use him to materially target his mother. Yes, oft handled/favored, but you choose whether you are casting via material link, or sympathetic link. If you cast via the hair as material link (believing it to be his real hair) then you nuke the toupee. If before the ritual, you find out he has a toupee, and you have toupee hair, then you can do it sympathetically. |
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#25
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 490 Joined: 29-August 06 From: Texas Member No.: 9,245 ![]() |
So could some one else take the picture of the coconut and give it to me to use as the symbolic link?
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