 3D Art & Art Tools, No longer derailing Squinky's Thread |
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 Nov 8 2007, 07:29 PM
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#1
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 208 Joined: 3-May 06 From: On the Run Member No.: 8,521  |
In an effort not to derail Squinky's Character Art thread, as suggested by Kyoto Kid, the discussion on 3D Shadowrun Art and Art Tools has been moved to here.
Programs Free - $0 Blender DAZ Studio (Manual) Maya PLE Mid Level Program - $50 - $100 Carrara 3D Express Bryce 6 Effect3D Studio High End Program - $100 - $300 DAZ Hexagon 2 Poser 7 Carrara 6 Standard Professional - $300+ Carrara 6 Pro 3DS Max Lightwave 9 Maya Complete zBrush ------------------ DAZ Studio is primarily a rendering tool - its 3D object creation ability is very limited. Blender, Bryce, Poser, Carrara, Maya, 3DS Max, and zBrush have extensive object creation and render tools. ------------------- If you are new to 3D Art - I would recommend starting out with either DAZ Studio and the free content packs available at DAZ3D, such as the Michael 3.0 and 3D Bridge Starter Pack. Other places that offer free 3D content for DAZ Studio and Poser are Renderosity, Content Paradise, and Turbo Squid. Blender would be the alternative starting choice - its robust modeling tools give it a leg up on DAZ Studio, but comes at the price of steeper learning curve. In the end, which 3D tool you end up using is strictly a matter of personal choice and comfort factor with the software - almost all of the tools are capable of rendering images that look exactly the same, its just a matter of time and energy working on your scene. The Sprawl at Night - Quick and Dirty 3 minute image that imageshack managed to screw up. |
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Nov 8 2007, 08:50 PM
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#2
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,537 Joined: 27-August 06 From: Albuquerque NM Member No.: 9,234 |
Poser is cool. It's not perfect, but you can do a huge amount there. The limitation you typically run into is that creating new 3d objects needs a new program, and it's hard to create new figures. If you can stick to free or willing to buy figures it can be a lot of fun I've made figures from scratch (years ago) but it was hard.
I'm not sure what DAZ uses, but when they were Zygote they used Wavefront, which was insanely expensive when it was still available about 12 years ago. All the other tools I tried were not a lot of fun. The free versions of Maya have been appealing, but it looks really hard to get into. |
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Nov 8 2007, 09:21 PM
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#3
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Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490 |
,..thanks for launching this.
After downloading I checked though the some of the content packs. Which ones do you have and/or recommend or should I not bother with? Most of my gals tend not to be as "well endowed" as the "Victoria" series models are (I tend to take a slightly more "realistic" approach to female characters). Are the models pretty much "you get what you see" or can you alter proportions? I did notice perusing the gallery that often times programmes from other vendors were used in combination with Daz (such as Photoshop). I have Inkscape & The Gimp (600$+ for Photoshop is a bit rich for me right now) and wonder if I can import/export between them & Daz to do special effects. I'll check out some of the other 3d content sites you mentioned as well as well. Need somewhere to get a start. Oh, & finally If you are willing to do pics, I'll take he second spot (toss up between my namesake and my little Croatian mad bomber Leela :grinbig:) |
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Nov 8 2007, 10:24 PM
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#4
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 208 Joined: 3-May 06 From: On the Run Member No.: 8,521 |
For Men - I'd probly go with the Michael 3.0 pack which is currently free. For women - My chosen character to work with is Aiko 3 - specifically with the Aiko 19 morph pack. As far as being well endowed, all the current female content packs (Aiko 3, Stephanie Petite, and Victoria 3 and 4) come with body morphs to change their 'endowment factor'. Current Free Content Packs that I use - 3D Bridge Starter Pack (includes Aiko 3 and some clothing) Michael 3.0 Dystopia City Blocks 001-010 Dystopia City Blocks 0011-020 The Aiko 3 toon and her derivatives are incredibly popular in the Japan 3D CG scene, making free clothing and morphs for her easy to find. All of the programs I mentioned in the first post are capable of importing and exporting objects in multiple formats, though sometimes skeletal pose information can be lost, so its entirely possible to get the look you want for one object in one program, then export it as an .obj file and import it into a given scene you want. (Which is a quick and easy method of avoiding the posing blues if you don't want to mess with that and found a pose/morph file that only works with one program). Photoshop and other image programs are mainly used for post render image modifications - I use GIMP too since I can't justify paying $600 for Photochop either. ;) ---- And here is an image that Squinky's KK by the Pool inspired. |
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Nov 8 2007, 10:57 PM
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#5
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
How easy are any of the free programs to use for computer and artistically challenged people like me?
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Nov 8 2007, 11:17 PM
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#6
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Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490 |
...thanks for the info...
...& very nice work on the gunslinger pic. [Shameless Plug Time] ...check out my gallery on DeviantArt. got a couple of old pics I did of he "Short One" (done the "old way") I guess that would be the one to request. But Nightlife is first on the list & I don't want to cut in line. |
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Nov 8 2007, 11:18 PM
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#7
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 208 Joined: 3-May 06 From: On the Run Member No.: 8,521 |
For computer literate but artistically challenged, they're fairly easy to use.
For computer and artistically challenged, I'm not exactly sure - I think they'd be fairly easy to use if you looked at some of the tutorials and just played with them. But seeing as my first crib was a mainframe rolled around me..... I might be a little biased. |
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Nov 8 2007, 11:37 PM
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#8
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 197 Joined: 15-June 05 From: Portland, Or. Member No.: 7,447 |
Dax 3D from what i hear is a pain to use and learn.
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Nov 8 2007, 11:43 PM
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#9
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 208 Joined: 3-May 06 From: On the Run Member No.: 8,521 |
You might be right, I only started working with DAZ Studio after working with 3DS MAX for a couple of years.
But with the free content packs that DAZ offers, I've found DAZ Studio a worthy program to use. |
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Nov 8 2007, 11:52 PM
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#10
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,537 Joined: 27-August 06 From: Albuquerque NM Member No.: 9,234 |
With the right morph packs (not sure it they are in the base) you can, to some extent. The other female figure that Daz has that I used (a lot more) is Stephanie. It has the proportions better for a dancer/martial artist. I think you need the starter pack, the body morphs and head morphs. |
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Nov 8 2007, 11:58 PM
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#11
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,537 Joined: 27-August 06 From: Albuquerque NM Member No.: 9,234 |
The Poser gui is kind of different. You need to play with a bit. The trick with poser is that the figures are in scale with each other and they do distances, etc automatically. Making a quickie scene is easy. Getting it RIGHT is often a lot more work for me. Don't get me wrong, I've seen what some real skilled artists can do with Poser and it's a lot better than I can do, but I've done some fairly cool stuff with little artistic talent and no training. |
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Nov 9 2007, 08:23 AM
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#12
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Target Group: Members Posts: 22 Joined: 6-February 07 Member No.: 10,931 |
Heck if this thing is really going all I need is an email address to send off my reference pics.
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Nov 9 2007, 08:28 AM
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#13
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
So, with the free stuff, is all the proper shading and other light effects done automatically, or do you personally have to use your own sense of proportion or whatever when adding it?
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Nov 9 2007, 01:43 PM
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#14
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Target Group: Members Posts: 56 Joined: 26-September 07 From: The Glitterman Member No.: 13,422 |
You set the light intensity, color and position and Poser will do the math. You can add multiple lightsources all with varying colors. I use Poser only as a reference tool when doing art. I'll setup a scene that I want to draw, getting the models into place how I want. I don't bother with clothing or hair, I just use it for body positioning then I start sketching on paper, adding clothes, hair, etc. and finish off by inking and coloring my work in Photoshop CS2. Poser has made my art MUCH better by helping me better understand anatomy and how the body moves. I've also start playing with exporting a basic hairless/clothless model into Photoshop and finishing up painting in hair and clothing over the CG model. Good times! :D |
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Nov 10 2007, 02:48 PM
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#15
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,095 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Ontari-airee-o Member No.: 1,115 |
The problem with Daz3d and poser ... is that people who can't draw design covers like augmentation. There are some really good comics out there that use those programs and you can do some great work. But great tools are not a substitute for talent and design. Again Augmentation is the example I will put forth.
on a side note: The facial and body distortion packs are really worth it. |
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Nov 11 2007, 06:20 AM
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#16
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Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490 |
...OK finally just downloaded Blender.
Also Downloaded the the DAZ 3d starter pack. Looks like I got lot to occupy myself for a while. Also saw a 3D Model Content Pack for teens. That may be some use as well after I get my feet under me so to say. Strange thing, when I received an email on new releases, it included the Morphia pack. When I viewed the info page, I damn near fell out of my chair for one of the figures pictured is almost a spitting image of my character Leela (the little redhead with the pigtails) even down to the blue eyes... linky |
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Nov 11 2007, 06:41 AM
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#17
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,537 Joined: 27-August 06 From: Albuquerque NM Member No.: 9,234 |
I can't draw, but I can do decent work in poser. The trick is to look at from a bunch of angles using the various cameras and then look a a mirror and see if you can do that. The other element is that people don't understand how to use the limit switches. For example, you can't get Poser to do a person kneeling with their knees together and sitting back on their heels and have it look natural with the limit switches on. To make it work you have to fiddle with the limit switches so the foot goes back further than poser says it should, so the shin and instep are where they should be. There are other examples like that you can easily find. But in general, running with limit switches on and turning them off when it's needed is useful for people who are not artists and don't have an artists feel for body mechanics. For example if you poke through the galleries at Renderosity you will probably see images where someone had the limit switches off and did something really dumb, with unnatural angles and impossible poses. As well as those where they had the limit switches on and people look unnatural because of that. |
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Dec 4 2007, 06:19 PM
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#18
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Can you give me a link to the proper version of these for use with Daz Studio (as opposed to Lightwave or Poser or whatever)? |
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Dec 4 2007, 07:24 PM
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#19
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,328 Joined: 28-November 05 From: Zuerich Member No.: 8,014 |
A few Shadowrun-themed pictures made with DAZ Studio:
Male Races Lineup Female Races Lineup SR Males in various runner gear SR Females in various runner gear Male runner group in the field Zoom Female runner group in town Different perspective Beach Wrong Place (2.7 meter tall troll and a 1.8 meter tall ork) Casino |
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Dec 4 2007, 08:12 PM
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#20
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Is that an elf with the two humans in the casino? If so, she seems kind of large ... especially her head.
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Dec 4 2007, 09:21 PM
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#21
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 858 Joined: 25-August 03 From: Braunschweig, North German League, Allied German States Member No.: 5,537 |
Nice work! But IMHO the trolls need to be even more massive - broader shoulders, etc. |
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Dec 4 2007, 09:31 PM
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#22
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Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490 |
...if it weren't that the Dwarf (looks kinda petite) in these two was depicted as a mage, I'd say that is a pretty nice representation of my little Leela (#64 ...I think). Otherwise these are pretty nice. Which Model Packages did you use? Also, Nice SR Swimsuit entry with "Beach". :grinbig: |
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Dec 4 2007, 09:41 PM
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#23
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,328 Joined: 28-November 05 From: Zuerich Member No.: 8,014 |
Base was Victoria 4 for all females, Michael 3 for all males, with DAZ standard morph-combos for bodies, and a few purchased morphs for faces.
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Dec 5 2007, 03:52 AM
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#24
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Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490 |
...still learning the finer art of posing and lighting with the basic Aiko 3 and Millennium Cat figures. Also have to figure out how to "dovetail" with other tools like Gimp and Blender.
To do a pic like one of the street scenes of yours, how many of the "modules" do you usually need? the biggest handicap I face is not being able to order online. it's not so much the cost, as it is the fact I do not pack any "plastic". |
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Dec 5 2007, 06:29 AM
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#25
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,537 Joined: 27-August 06 From: Albuquerque NM Member No.: 9,234 |
Have you hit up the free stuff at renderosity.com? I think they will work with the Daz tool, they do work with Poser. You have to join up to get to that stuff, but it's free.
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