In an effort not to derail Squinky's Character Art thread, as suggested by Kyoto Kid, the discussion on 3D Shadowrun Art and Art Tools has been moved to here.
Programs
Free - $0
Blender
DAZ Studio (Manual)
Maya PLE
Mid Level Program - $50 - $100
Carrara 3D Express
Bryce 6
Effect3D Studio
High End Program - $100 - $300
DAZ Hexagon 2
Poser 7
Carrara 6 Standard
Professional - $300+
Carrara 6 Pro
3DS Max
Lightwave 9
Maya Complete
zBrush
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DAZ Studio is primarily a rendering tool - its 3D object creation ability is very limited.
Blender, Bryce, Poser, Carrara, Maya, 3DS Max, and zBrush have extensive object creation and render tools.
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If you are new to 3D Art - I would recommend starting out with either DAZ Studio and the free content packs available at DAZ3D, such as the Michael 3.0 and 3D Bridge Starter Pack. Other places that offer free 3D content for DAZ Studio and Poser are Renderosity, Content Paradise, and Turbo Squid.
Blender would be the alternative starting choice - its robust modeling tools give it a leg up on DAZ Studio, but comes at the price of steeper learning curve.
In the end, which 3D tool you end up using is strictly a matter of personal choice and comfort factor with the software - almost all of the tools are capable of rendering images that look exactly the same, its just a matter of time and energy working on your scene.
The Sprawl at Night - Quick and Dirty 3 minute image that imageshack managed to screw up.
Full Version: 3D Art & Art Tools
Poser is cool. It's not perfect, but you can do a huge amount there. The limitation you typically run into is that creating new 3d objects needs a new program, and it's hard to create new figures. If you can stick to free or willing to buy figures it can be a lot of fun I've made figures from scratch (years ago) but it was hard.
I'm not sure what DAZ uses, but when they were Zygote they used Wavefront, which was insanely expensive when it was still available about 12 years ago. All the other tools I tried were not a lot of fun.
The free versions of Maya have been appealing, but it looks really hard to get into.
I'm not sure what DAZ uses, but when they were Zygote they used Wavefront, which was insanely expensive when it was still available about 12 years ago. All the other tools I tried were not a lot of fun.
The free versions of Maya have been appealing, but it looks really hard to get into.
,..thanks for launching this.
After downloading I checked though the some of the content packs. Which ones do you have and/or recommend or should I not bother with?
Most of my gals tend not to be as "well endowed" as the "Victoria" series models are (I tend to take a slightly more "realistic" approach to female characters). Are the models pretty much "you get what you see" or can you alter proportions?
I did notice perusing the gallery that often times programmes from other vendors were used in combination with Daz (such as Photoshop). I have Inkscape & The Gimp (600$+ for Photoshop is a bit rich for me right now) and wonder if I can import/export between them & Daz to do special effects.
I'll check out some of the other 3d content sites you mentioned as well as well. Need somewhere to get a start.
Oh, & finally If you are willing to do pics, I'll take he second spot (toss up between my namesake and my little Croatian mad bomber Leela
)
After downloading I checked though the some of the content packs. Which ones do you have and/or recommend or should I not bother with?
Most of my gals tend not to be as "well endowed" as the "Victoria" series models are (I tend to take a slightly more "realistic" approach to female characters). Are the models pretty much "you get what you see" or can you alter proportions?
I did notice perusing the gallery that often times programmes from other vendors were used in combination with Daz (such as Photoshop). I have Inkscape & The Gimp (600$+ for Photoshop is a bit rich for me right now) and wonder if I can import/export between them & Daz to do special effects.
I'll check out some of the other 3d content sites you mentioned as well as well. Need somewhere to get a start.
Oh, & finally If you are willing to do pics, I'll take he second spot (toss up between my namesake and my little Croatian mad bomber Leela
)
| QUOTE (Kyoto Kid) |
| ,..thanks for launching this. After downloading I checked though the some of the content packs. Which ones do you have and/or recommend or should I not bother with? Most of my gals tend not to be as "well endowed" as the "Victoria" series models are (I tend to take a slightly more "realistic" approach to female characters). Are the models pretty much "you get what you see" or can you alter proportions? I did notice perusing the gallery that often times programmes from other vendors were used in combination with Daz (such as Photoshop). I have Inkscape & The Gimp (600$+ for Photoshop is a bit rich for me right now) and wonder if I can import/export between them & Daz to do special effects. I'll check out some of the other 3d content sites you mentioned as well as well. Need somewhere to get a start. Oh, & finally If you are willing to do pics, I'll take he second spot (toss up between my namesake and my little Croatian mad bomber Leela ) |
For Men - I'd probly go with the Michael 3.0 pack which is currently free.
For women - My chosen character to work with is Aiko 3 - specifically with the Aiko 19 morph pack. As far as being well endowed, all the current female content packs (Aiko 3, Stephanie Petite, and Victoria 3 and 4) come with body morphs to change their 'endowment factor'.
Current Free Content Packs that I use -
3D Bridge Starter Pack (includes Aiko 3 and some clothing)
Michael 3.0
Dystopia City Blocks 001-010
Dystopia City Blocks 0011-020
The Aiko 3 toon and her derivatives are incredibly popular in the Japan 3D CG scene, making free clothing and morphs for her easy to find.
All of the programs I mentioned in the first post are capable of importing and exporting objects in multiple formats, though sometimes skeletal pose information can be lost, so its entirely possible to get the look you want for one object in one program, then export it as an .obj file and import it into a given scene you want. (Which is a quick and easy method of avoiding the posing blues if you don't want to mess with that and found a pose/morph file that only works with one program).
Photoshop and other image programs are mainly used for post render image modifications - I use GIMP too since I can't justify paying $600 for Photochop either.
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And here is an image that Squinky's KK by the Pool inspired.
How easy are any of the free programs to use for computer and artistically challenged people like me?
...thanks for the info...
...& very nice work on the gunslinger pic.
[Shameless Plug Time]
...check out my gallery on DeviantArt. got a couple of old pics I did of he "Short One" (done the "old way") I guess that would be the one to request. But Nightlife is first on the list & I don't want to cut in line.
...& very nice work on the gunslinger pic.
[Shameless Plug Time]
...check out my gallery on DeviantArt. got a couple of old pics I did of he "Short One" (done the "old way") I guess that would be the one to request. But Nightlife is first on the list & I don't want to cut in line.
For computer literate but artistically challenged, they're fairly easy to use.
For computer and artistically challenged, I'm not exactly sure - I think they'd be fairly easy to use if you looked at some of the tutorials and just played with them. But seeing as my first crib was a mainframe rolled around me..... I might be a little biased.
For computer and artistically challenged, I'm not exactly sure - I think they'd be fairly easy to use if you looked at some of the tutorials and just played with them. But seeing as my first crib was a mainframe rolled around me..... I might be a little biased.
Dax 3D from what i hear is a pain to use and learn.
You might be right, I only started working with DAZ Studio after working with 3DS MAX for a couple of years.
But with the free content packs that DAZ offers, I've found DAZ Studio a worthy program to use.
But with the free content packs that DAZ offers, I've found DAZ Studio a worthy program to use.
| QUOTE (Kyoto Kid) |
| After downloading I checked though the some of the content packs. Which ones do you have and/or recommend or should I not bother with? Most of my gals tend not to be as "well endowed" as the "Victoria" series models are (I tend to take a slightly more "realistic" approach to female characters). Are the models pretty much "you get what you see" or can you alter proportions? |
With the right morph packs (not sure it they are in the base) you can, to some extent. The other female figure that Daz has that I used (a lot more) is Stephanie. It has the proportions better for a dancer/martial artist. I think you need the starter pack, the body morphs and head morphs.
| QUOTE (Fortune) |
| How easy are any of the free programs to use for computer and artistically challenged people like me? |
The Poser gui is kind of different. You need to play with a bit. The trick with poser is that the figures are in scale with each other and they do distances, etc automatically.
Making a quickie scene is easy. Getting it RIGHT is often a lot more work for me.
Don't get me wrong, I've seen what some real skilled artists can do with Poser and it's a lot better than I can do, but I've done some fairly cool stuff with little artistic talent and no training.
Heck if this thing is really going all I need is an email address to send off my reference pics.
So, with the free stuff, is all the proper shading and other light effects done automatically, or do you personally have to use your own sense of proportion or whatever when adding it?
| QUOTE (Fortune) |
| So, with the free stuff, is all the proper shading and other light effects done automatically, or do you personally have to use your own sense of proportion or whatever when adding it? |
You set the light intensity, color and position and Poser will do the math. You can add multiple lightsources all with varying colors.
I use Poser only as a reference tool when doing art. I'll setup a scene that I want to draw, getting the models into place how I want. I don't bother with clothing or hair, I just use it for body positioning then I start sketching on paper, adding clothes, hair, etc. and finish off by inking and coloring my work in Photoshop CS2.
Poser has made my art MUCH better by helping me better understand anatomy and how the body moves.
I've also start playing with exporting a basic hairless/clothless model into Photoshop and finishing up painting in hair and clothing over the CG model. Good times!
The problem with Daz3d and poser ... is that people who can't draw design covers like augmentation. There are some really good comics out there that use those programs and you can do some great work. But great tools are not a substitute for talent and design. Again Augmentation is the example I will put forth.
on a side note:
The facial and body distortion packs are really worth it.
on a side note:
The facial and body distortion packs are really worth it.
...OK finally just downloaded Blender.
Also Downloaded the the DAZ 3d starter pack. Looks like I got lot to occupy myself for a while.
Also saw a 3D Model Content Pack for teens. That may be some use as well after I get my feet under me so to say.
Strange thing, when I received an email on new releases, it included the Morphia pack. When I viewed the info page, I damn near fell out of my chair for one of the figures pictured is almost a spitting image of my character Leela (the little redhead with the pigtails) even down to the blue eyes...
linky
Also Downloaded the the DAZ 3d starter pack. Looks like I got lot to occupy myself for a while.
Also saw a 3D Model Content Pack for teens. That may be some use as well after I get my feet under me so to say.
Strange thing, when I received an email on new releases, it included the Morphia pack. When I viewed the info page, I damn near fell out of my chair for one of the figures pictured is almost a spitting image of my character Leela (the little redhead with the pigtails) even down to the blue eyes...
linky
| QUOTE (Platinum) |
| The problem with Daz3d and poser ... is that people who can't draw design covers like augmentation. There are some really good comics out there that use those programs and you can do some great work. But great tools are not a substitute for talent and design. Again Augmentation is the example I will put forth. |
I can't draw, but I can do decent work in poser. The trick is to look at from a bunch of angles using the various cameras and then look a a mirror and see if you can do that.
The other element is that people don't understand how to use the limit switches. For example, you can't get Poser to do a person kneeling with their knees together and sitting back on their heels and have it look natural with the limit switches on. To make it work you have to fiddle with the limit switches so the foot goes back further than poser says it should, so the shin and instep are where they should be.
There are other examples like that you can easily find. But in general, running with limit switches on and turning them off when it's needed is useful for people who are not artists and don't have an artists feel for body mechanics.
For example if you poke through the galleries at Renderosity you will probably see images where someone had the limit switches off and did something really dumb, with unnatural angles and impossible poses. As well as those where they had the limit switches on and people look unnatural because of that.
| QUOTE (Smilin_Jack) |
| Dystopia City Blocks 001-010 Dystopia City Blocks 0011-020 |
Can you give me a link to the proper version of these for use with Daz Studio (as opposed to Lightwave or Poser or whatever)?
A few Shadowrun-themed pictures made with DAZ Studio:
Male Races Lineup
Female Races Lineup
SR Males in various runner gear
SR Females in various runner gear
Male runner group in the field
Zoom
Female runner group in town
Different perspective
Beach
Wrong Place (2.7 meter tall troll and a 1.8 meter tall ork)
Casino
Male Races Lineup
Female Races Lineup
SR Males in various runner gear
SR Females in various runner gear
Male runner group in the field
Zoom
Female runner group in town
Different perspective
Beach
Wrong Place (2.7 meter tall troll and a 1.8 meter tall ork)
Casino
Is that an elf with the two humans in the casino? If so, she seems kind of large ... especially her head.
| QUOTE (Fuchs) |
| A few Shadowrun-themed pictures made with DAZ Studio: Male Races Lineup Female Races Lineup |
Nice work!
But IMHO the trolls need to be even more massive - broader shoulders, etc.
| QUOTE (Fuchs) |
| A few Shadowrun-themed pictures made with DAZ Studio: Female runner group in town Different perspective |
...if it weren't that the Dwarf (looks kinda petite) in these two was depicted as a mage, I'd say that is a pretty nice representation of my little Leela (#64 ...I think).
Otherwise these are pretty nice. Which Model Packages did you use?
Also, Nice SR Swimsuit entry with "Beach".
Base was Victoria 4 for all females, Michael 3 for all males, with DAZ standard morph-combos for bodies, and a few purchased morphs for faces.
...still learning the finer art of posing and lighting with the basic Aiko 3 and Millennium Cat figures. Also have to figure out how to "dovetail" with other tools like Gimp and Blender.
To do a pic like one of the street scenes of yours, how many of the "modules" do you usually need?
the biggest handicap I face is not being able to order online. it's not so much the cost, as it is the fact I do not pack any "plastic".
To do a pic like one of the street scenes of yours, how many of the "modules" do you usually need?
the biggest handicap I face is not being able to order online. it's not so much the cost, as it is the fact I do not pack any "plastic".
Have you hit up the free stuff at renderosity.com? I think they will work with the Daz tool, they do work with Poser. You have to join up to get to that stuff, but it's free.
| QUOTE (Kyoto Kid) |
| To do a pic like one of the street scenes of yours, how many of the "modules" do you usually need? |
Usually one "module" for the area/background, and one pack per character, although I often mix clothes up, and weapons I mix up even more.
Need decent free punk or military clothes. 
Thread moved to appropriate forum.
Very cool stuff. I yoinked a couple more of your shots to use as examples in my games.
Very cool stuff. I yoinked a couple more of your shots to use as examples in my games.
...actually a good move, this discussion fits better in this forum.
But you can't all let this die...
I'd use the Freak (from Daz3D) if you want to troll mod. Open it in Hex and add in some dermal ridges. Remeber that if you use the right file types to when you save, you can import and export in Blender to do some work.
imported from another program to Blender to do some work.
I'd use the Freak (from Daz3D) if you want to troll mod. Open it in Hex and add in some dermal ridges. Remeber that if you use the right file types to when you save, you can import and export in Blender to do some work.
imported from another program to Blender to do some work.
...nice. This will be rendered I hope...
Haven't been able to do much with Blender yet. Not sure if I downloaded everything correctly. Daz 3d on the other hand has been quite interesting. Have to order Victoria 4 & some of the morph packs while I'm on vacation this next week. Lots'a time to play...
Haven't been able to do much with Blender yet. Not sure if I downloaded everything correctly. Daz 3d on the other hand has been quite interesting. Have to order Victoria 4 & some of the morph packs while I'm on vacation this next week. Lots'a time to play...
Should have joined up as a platinum member, she was just on cheap for us. I have about 300 models right now that I've got in our working areas, I just need to get further organized with it all.
I'll shoot a render of the Pred out once I finish skinning it... its taking quite a learning curve right now
I'll shoot a render of the Pred out once I finish skinning it... its taking quite a learning curve right now
Fuchs, which model did you use for the Troll? I was trying to use V4.1, but there were issues with scaling her(namely..you can scale everywhere...but the feet, head, and arms separately). I had hoped to use V 4.1 Creature Creator to do the horns a bit more aestheticly.
(I use DAZ Studio)
(I use DAZ Studio)
I used Daz on and off for a couple years. I highly recommend Team-Dystopia for some cool SR stuff.
Also, Look up Content Paradise. They have some great firearms. In particular look for Mocks guns, he's got some kits so you can build custom guns.
Also, Look up Content Paradise. They have some great firearms. In particular look for Mocks guns, he's got some kits so you can build custom guns.
| QUOTE (Caine Hazen) |
| Should have joined up as a platinum member, she was just on cheap for us. I have about 300 models right now that I've got in our working areas, I just need to get further organized with it all. I'll shoot a render of the Pred out once I finish skinning it... its taking quite a learning curve right now |
...I would, but I need to figure out how to purchase a membership w/o having a credit card. The one downside or web based commerce.
| QUOTE (Cardul @ Dec 28 2007, 11:30 PM) |
| Fuchs, which model did you use for the Troll? I was trying to use V4.1, but there were issues with scaling her(namely..you can scale everywhere...but the feet, head, and arms separately). I had hoped to use V 4.1 Creature Creator to do the horns a bit more aestheticly. (I use DAZ Studio) |
I used V4 or V4.1, and scaled the arms seperately. M3 for the male Troll. It's all base morphs/scale changes, no special morphs. Horns are from the millenium horn pack. I use DAZ too.
(I'll check the exact version when I get home.)
...downloaded the Carrara 3D trial. Pretty intense software. Does seem to require a lot of crunching power for the rendering process but the results are totally awesome. Still have to figure out how to merge Terrain & Sky elements and presets.
OK...well, this is kind of sucky, but:
Troll Mage in an Alley
I used some of the horns and re-scaled them to do the dermal denticles, and, since I could not get the teeth to do lower enlarged canins like I wanted, I used another pair of horns, and adjusted and tweaked them in scale and rotation to get them to form the tusks.
Troll Mage in an Alley
I used some of the horns and re-scaled them to do the dermal denticles, and, since I could not get the teeth to do lower enlarged canins like I wanted, I used another pair of horns, and adjusted and tweaked them in scale and rotation to get them to form the tusks.
Looks good. How big is the picture? Imageshack allows rather large JPGs to be posted.
| QUOTE (Fuchs) |
| Looks good. How big is the picture? Imageshack allows rather large JPGs to be posted. |
342 KB
As I said there, it is my first attempt at that, too...Not easy to get a troll to look like something other then a Big Human Woman with Horns
...what morphs did you use?
| QUOTE (Kyoto Kid) |
| ...what morphs did you use? |
I used a combination of the creature creator injections for the head, and the voluptuous, defined, amazon and body builder for the body. The Horns were using the Creature Creator Horns
As an FYI to all my 3d art friends herethe latest issue of 3d World (runs abnout 15$ US) has a full version of Carerra 5 provided by DAZ in it. I'm currently adding it to the list of proggies my studios over here will use.. since you know, it's free 
I'm really hoping I have time to sit down and start modeling here soon... Arsenal makes for great inspiration
I'm really hoping I have time to sit down and start modeling here soon... Arsenal makes for great inspiration
...am joining the Platinum Club this week. Found they do take payments via means other than plastic. Even for the price of one month's membership, the discounts are too good to pass up. Will be ordering both the Aiko Pro and Victoria 4 packages once I receive confirmation.
QUOTE (Cardul @ Jan 23 2008, 05:09 AM) 
As I said there, it is my first attempt at that, too...Not easy to get a troll to look like something other then a Big Human Woman with Horns
Well said - it's something even most professional SR artists seem to be unable of.
At least for my personal image of trolls (that was shaped by the better troll pics of SR2) the gal needs broader shoulders (and overall more massive appearance), longer arms and shorter legs - an easy reference would be a fully upright-walking gorilla.
Back when my fiance and I were in Second Life a lot I had started working on Shadowrun races. I'd had an idea of posing them and doing a SR inspired comic. I had worked on a male troll and male dwarf. I will have to look and see if I have any screen shots.
...nice. Love the sassy smartly dressed Ork. I take it she's the face... So the really big dude, Troll under a Physical mask spell or a burly elf physad with the human looking edge?
Letsee V4 & Michael for the figures, Poser for the backdrop. Correct? See that you also have the Limo.
Will be downloading the new V4.2 & Ashley hopefully tonight (should have received my payment by today). Also see they have Aiko 4, May need to get that for the Short One
First up, a shot at doing Leela & Violet
Letsee V4 & Michael for the figures, Poser for the backdrop. Correct? See that you also have the Limo.
Will be downloading the new V4.2 & Ashley hopefully tonight (should have received my payment by today). Also see they have Aiko 4, May need to get that for the Short One
First up, a shot at doing Leela & Violet
Those are from this thread. Left to right: DD (Decker/Secondary face), Blackie (Journalist/Infiltrator), Dagda (Magician), Dancer (Adept/Face).
Dagda is a custom Orc variant, a Skriatok.
All done in Daz.
Dagda is a custom Orc variant, a Skriatok.
All done in Daz.
...cool so there's actually a background to the work. Ahh that was the game which had me interested until I learned it was a daily commitment.
...in Matt Groening's words: Work is Hell.
BTW just received confirmation minutes ago my payment was received, so lots of 3d goodness to play with tonight.
...in Matt Groening's words: Work is Hell.
BTW just received confirmation minutes ago my payment was received, so lots of 3d goodness to play with tonight.
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