 Do Trolls belong in SR?, Offshoot from the troll heavy weapons |
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 Nov 15 2007, 09:16 AM
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#201
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The ShadowComedian  Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 14,538 Joined: 3-October 07 From: Hamburg, AGS Member No.: 13,525  |
if anything, elves should be removed . . i mae it a point for most of my spellslingers to have one of those kill every member of species yxz honed to elves in his repertoire . .
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Nov 15 2007, 09:19 AM
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#202
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
That's cool, but in-character feelings aside, elves overall do actually add quite a bit to the Sixth World (Just the fact that you go to the trouble of making their existence a very real part of your non-elven characters goes a long way toward illustrating that point). The same can't really be said to anything like the same degree about trolls and dwarves.
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Nov 15 2007, 09:24 AM
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#203
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The ShadowComedian Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 14,538 Joined: 3-October 07 From: Hamburg, AGS Member No.: 13,525 |
aside from the fact that those two are in fact my two favorites when playing, no, not really . . I just really hat elves . . heck, all of my characters get racism against them at least at 3 for free . . |
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Nov 15 2007, 10:14 AM
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#204
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Freelance Elf Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 7,324 Joined: 30-September 04 From: Texas Member No.: 6,714 |
It's okay. Different people express their jealousy different ways. |
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Nov 15 2007, 10:49 AM
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#205
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The ShadowComedian Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 14,538 Joined: 3-October 07 From: Hamburg, AGS Member No.: 13,525 |
jealousy? what would i have to be jealous of? O.o
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Nov 15 2007, 11:14 AM
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#206
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 573 Joined: 17-September 07 Member No.: 13,319 |
Or their thwarted desire. Ever seen 14-year-old boys, who have new and confusing feelings towards girls, that they manifest by teasing girls, making an even bigger point of the boys-only treehouse, snapping the backs of bras.. not by, say, holding hands, and thus risking rejection? Me, I'll admit openly that I dig the hot elf chicks, and I wish that they dug me the same way, but ain't jack I can do about it, because they can and do have the elegant, graceful elf boys. That's competition I can't match. |
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Nov 15 2007, 11:25 AM
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#207
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 573 Joined: 17-September 07 Member No.: 13,319 |
More seriously, there is a difference between killing elves, and editing them out of existence. The former results in elf corpses, which some of us find tasty. The latter gives us unclaimed territory on the map where the Tir nations were, and changes or eliminates the Harlequin story, and takes away anyone who might personally remember the Horrors and what (if anything) works against them, or at least how to survive until the mana level drops. As an aside, what if, in a highly alternate, variant 6W, *all* humans express a nonhuman metatype, until there are none left? would the surviving metatypes miss them? |
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Nov 15 2007, 11:53 AM
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#208
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,838 Joined: 1-September 05 Member No.: 7,669 |
If you want to remove Elf Superiority aeb the existance of IEs, just do what I did: IEs are not Elves - they are Free Spirits with Realistic Form. Not all actually take on Elf forms, but most do. They have existed since the last magical age. Now the IE vs. Dragons thing can continue along with the other IE storylines, but the Elf emphasis is taken back a notch. |
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Nov 15 2007, 11:56 AM
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#209
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Freelance Elf Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 7,324 Joined: 30-September 04 From: Texas Member No.: 6,714 |
The fact Elves matter in the metaplot, have multiple adventures, setting books, Threats hooks, novels, and major NPCs to their name, maybe? Have two in-game kingdoms that are referenced in more books than not? Have connections every other race (but dragons) lack to previous Ages of magic, and were the first to have their own language in Shadowrun? How many trolls are counted as among the fifteen or twenty most individually powerful NPCs in the setting? Top fifty? Top one hundred? Or -- to look at things from another perspective -- maybe you and quite a few other Elf haters are just jealous of the fact Elves are "humans, but better." They don't have any innate attribute negatives. They come with a few stat bonuses most people would regard as big positives in real life (grace and style rule the world, and are thrown in our faces day in and day out in popular media), they live forever (or at least "way longer than you"), and there are no built in drawbacks (even just being the butt of short jokes, excessive body hair, or having your face at crotch level all the time, nevermind actual tusks and horns and warts and bony protrusions). To be honest, I was making a joke at your expense -- hah hah, the joke said, no one hates Elves except people who are jealous of them -- but the point stands. Most people that think Elves are lame OOC think they're lame because they're overdone, or boring (since they have no or few drawbacks). I imagine most people that hate them in game think so for many of the same reasons, but on a far more personal level. |
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Nov 15 2007, 01:28 PM
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#210
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The ShadowComedian Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 14,538 Joined: 3-October 07 From: Hamburg, AGS Member No.: 13,525 |
i mostly hate elves 'cause they are all cutesy and arrogant . . and most people play them as such, no matter what, even if they have NO reason to do so . .
Trogs and Dwarves are in my Eyes good fellas who like to party . . kinda like the WH40K Orcs *g* |
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Nov 15 2007, 03:59 PM
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#211
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Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490 |
...i just wish in North America they would have chosen somewhere else than Oregon to form their little aristocracy. Maybe Jersey, or Ohio, or Indiana would have been better. Would have been interesting to see how Portland fared in the NAN. |
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Nov 15 2007, 04:07 PM
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#212
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Why?
~J |
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Nov 15 2007, 04:23 PM
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#213
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Freelance Elf Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 7,324 Joined: 30-September 04 From: Texas Member No.: 6,714 |
A news article about just how sexy weird skin deposits are, about an Indian fisherman who is called "the three man" on account of weird roots growing out of him. It's kind of freaky-weaky, so don't click the link if you don't want to.
But, man, are those +1 Body dermal deposits sexy, or what?! |
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Nov 15 2007, 06:44 PM
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#214
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Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490 |
...considering that I live there in RL...personal reasons. Would like to have seen how the local tribes would have fared had it been their land (which it is historically speaking) rather than that of a bunch of racist Celtic wannabe elves. hmmm....maybe an interesting alternate campaign setting. :grinbig: |
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Nov 15 2007, 06:49 PM
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#215
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,664 Joined: 21-September 04 From: Arvada, CO Member No.: 6,686 |
You know, I posted this on the SR4 board just a couple days ago, and hardly got comment on it. |
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Nov 15 2007, 06:58 PM
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#216
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 941 Joined: 25-January 07 Member No.: 10,765 |
The problem is, really, that it is all 'their land' if you go back far enough. Other than the difference in time lines, it would not be so different from some of the Assyrians living in Kirkuk, Iraq rising up and claiming all of the middle east is 'their land' by right, because they owned it before the Arabs did. I can just imagine Italy laying claim to the entire mediterranian basin on account of Rome.... |
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Nov 15 2007, 07:22 PM
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#217
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Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490 |
...well seeing that most of the other major NA tribes managed to get their lands back, why should those in Oregon be treated any different?
The Elves who formed the Tir were even more "johnny's come lately" than the previous anglo Oregonians. They came in, took over and pushed the natives out and built that confounded wall around Portland to keep the "dirty folk" from spoiling their pristine little aristocratic wonderland. The one good thing about the crash of '64 is that their little fantasy world finally came tumbling down. [...Mr Surehand, Tear Down This Wall...] :grinbig: |
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Nov 15 2007, 07:30 PM
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#218
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
They did? You might try looking around for any of the east coast tribes sitting pretty on their traditional lands, but you'll probably be searching a while. And then there's the Navajo ... |
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Nov 15 2007, 08:53 PM
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#219
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 941 Joined: 25-January 07 Member No.: 10,765 |
In keeping with general recent trends around here, I am very very tempted to spin off a thread about attitudes towards 'land ownership' and how this applies to the Sixth World. It would even include a story about how a big pack? Gang? Army? Murder? of Trolls just strolled into an otherwise unremarkable section of land and threw all the non-trolls off and declared it 'trolltown'. Just to keep it relevant ;) Land, far more than other things, truly only belongs to the man holding it... while he holds it. A more practical way to treat 'land ownership' would be 'land use'. The farmer doesn't claim the land, he claims the crops he grows on it. Just as valid a claim to prevent random herds of cattle from munching his work as claiming the land itself, a thing he did not actually create. This implies that once his lands have grown past his ability to cultivate them, he can no longer lay a meaningful claim upon them, and lands that lie fallow are 'fair game' to a more industrious individual. What a different world it would be. Or.... Not. |
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Nov 15 2007, 08:54 PM
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#220
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Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490 |
...OK OK, I'll admit I didn't like what My Oregon became under the "Council of Prissies". Would've much rather seen it turned over to NA hands like the former Washington State was. ...just my two Zlotys worth. [edit]
...not a bad Idea. |
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Nov 15 2007, 09:09 PM
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#221
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,512 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 392 |
All I have to say is that FTBT and FOBO teams can kick the snot out of FEBE teams any day of the week--and do it with Cyberpunk Style!
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Nov 15 2007, 09:48 PM
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#222
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 830 Joined: 3-April 04 From: Columbus, Ohio Member No.: 6,215 |
Oregon WAS part of the NAN. The elves worked within the NAN framework to get it. They got the NAN as a whole, and the S-S council in particular, to embrace metahumanity (I think that's where the "Sidhe" comes from, which means "faery" in Gaelic, I belive?), while at the same time getting all those metahumans to take a segregationist stance and concentrate their population in Oregon. It's not that the tribes in Oregon didn't get their land back, it's just that they didn't have a strong enough presence on the Salish-Sidhe council to resist efforts to turn it into an ethnic enclave for meta-immigrants from around the world.
Also, when I say "the elves" orchestrated this, I might only mean a human named Walter Brightwater. Depends on whether or not you believe in the elfy metaplot. Personally, I had fun with Harlequin, but if you took the whole module out of Shadowrun, I wouldn't miss it. Same with horrors, and Dunklezahn. I much prefer to believe that the Awakening was actually the start of something new, rather than just Earthdawn with guns. [ Spoiler ] And yes, I hate elves. Mostly because I hate elf fanboys. But also, I don't like that one metatype gets so much more spotlight than all the others. If there's going to be multiple Tirs, plus Sinsearach, plus multiple Elven neighborhoods in Seattle, and probably most other major cities, I don't think it's that big a stretch to have one, just one, Troll neighborhood in Seattle, where they can make the ceilings as high as they like, and the sidewalks extra wide, and all the issues people keep bringing up here can be addressed. And yes, I realize that someone's probably about to point to a passage in some book that I've owned for 15 years and never noticed before that says there IS a Troll neighborhood in Seattle, but it deserves to get more emphasis. And this could all apply to dwarfs, too (they DID have a neighborhood, before the orcs took it, but you'd think they'd have found somewhere else). |
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Nov 15 2007, 10:01 PM
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#223
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,973 Joined: 3-October 07 From: Fairfax, VA Member No.: 13,526 |
Don't have any books here in my office, and the details are hazy, but isn't there a dwarven enclanve in or under San Fran?
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Nov 15 2007, 10:06 PM
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#224
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Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490 |
..and high technology. I agree. I never even heard about Earthdawn until I discovered DS & that was some 15 or so years after I first stared playing Shadowrun regularly. Now that I've seen the effect of the metaplot involving IEs & GDs, I find myself longing for the old Neo-Anarchist days when NA influences were more prominent and the corps were the bad guys. ...maybe time to pull out all that old 1e stuff that's been collecting dust on my bookshelves for the last decade & turn back the clock a few years. :grinbig: |
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Nov 15 2007, 10:08 PM
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#225
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The ShadowComedian Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 14,538 Joined: 3-October 07 From: Hamburg, AGS Member No.: 13,525 |
basically the dwarves help(ed) with the orc underground but ke[e]p(t) digging deeper untill they had their own cellar appartment beneath the orcs. .
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