 Riggers, and the tricks they play. |
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 Nov 14 2007, 08:43 PM
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#26
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Immortal Elf  Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890  |
1) Same for everything. Even YOU. In fact, in most descriptions, that's what a Shadowrunner IS. Disposable. 2) Yes, and a rigger can hijack a drone on the fly and pay nothing too. But if they want something good and something powerful (read: great forms), they pay out the nose. And they don't have an option when it comes to Ally Spirits. 3) Everything depends on the GM. Including this shitty pay of only 5,000 per run on average. THAT's a fault of the GM, too. If you ARE regularly doing jobs that pay out a pathetic 5kY per run, then you shouldn't have all this high-tech, hardcore, top-of-the-line gear on your character sheet. And if you do, and your GM wanted you to, then you shouldn't be getting (or more correctly, accepting) 5kY gigs, especially if those gigs have you dishing out more cash than you earn. 4) See #3. It NEVER HAPPENS for the same reason you NEVER GET MORE THAN 5,000Y. Hey, I can use caps to emphasize, too. |
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Nov 14 2007, 09:22 PM
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#27
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,706 Joined: 30-June 06 From: Fort Wayne, IN Member No.: 8,814 |
I agree, everything does depend on the GM. If he is paying out 5k AND trashing all your gear, I'd say most players will have a problem. If the GM is paying out 5k and giving you opportunities to pick up more gear to replace trashed stuff, cool.
The pay for a run DOES NOT equate to the value of the run...but everyone likes to focus on the 5K payment and factor nothing else in... I had to throw some caps in as well:) |
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Nov 14 2007, 09:29 PM
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#28
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
funny thing about hovercrafts, they are built to float if the engine should top while over water ;) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hovercraft |
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Nov 14 2007, 09:33 PM
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#29
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Awakened Asset Group: Members Posts: 4,464 Joined: 9-April 05 From: AGS, North German League Member No.: 7,309 |
Hey Funk, I did not say you have to actually pay that price ingame. But in SR4, a pilot is software (the OS), and software can´t be upgraded but must be programmed from scratch. You can use the uninstalled part however you wish, including selling it. So we could decuct a bit from my prices.
In our games, runners don´t need to pay for many things. Thats what I told a player (twice), if his rigger can´t pay for a heli, he should try to steal one. Taking over a sec. drone is often better than smuggling in ones own drones, so riggers may actually aquire drones ingame all things considered. If your rigger/hacker needs to shoot his own gun in a high-tech facility instead of hacking, your sams are not protective enough. |
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Nov 14 2007, 10:42 PM
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#30
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,269 Joined: 18-September 06 Member No.: 9,421 |
I was more concerned with what would happen when the skirt was shredded with automatic fire. Since I doubt Fisty will care, I'll post my character as I have them so far. Which is with 50 BP left for cash and no real cash spent. After all this I get 200 Karma, which is why several of my skills are low and 50k extra nuyen. Also, I don't have a BP cap when it comes to money(playing in a 200 karma game where everyone else is either an adept or a magician) so any suggestions you have are welcome. I can still alter the hell out of this guy, but I need to get him done as soon as I can. Game has already started, but had some people have to leave because of RL issues so I'm jumping in. [ Spoiler ] There he is without gear. I can also take more neg qualities if I need to, they just need a good justification. So far, they all have one, I'll see if I REALLY need more BPs what else would be funny/interesting to add. Chris |
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Nov 14 2007, 10:51 PM
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#31
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
not sure, but i think its only important for the hover effect ;) |
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Nov 14 2007, 11:26 PM
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#32
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 103 Joined: 21-August 07 Member No.: 12,814 |
Wow, that's strong. With all those BPs, you can skill up hard-core. I would suggest adding: Electronic Warfare Software (more useful that Hardware for rigger Autosoft copying and Firewall/Pilot) Hacking, Computer, and Data Search are nice if you have the BP, as it allows you to help your hacker or act as one in extremis. However, the BP cost and the cost for the software will in a regular build probably prove prohibitive. You could also drop hardware for Software, assuming you will play regularly and don't get months off at a time to do the extended tests. With your attributes, just one rank in Software will be enough for the copying of software (writing is lengthy anyway, so it isn't probable you would do that in most campaigns - no need for extra points in software). First Aid and Medicine are nice, but not needed. Armorer is also nice - I'm guessing this is a plot device rather than trying to be effective, as I wouldn't expect weapons/armor to get damaged all the time and you can't really use the skills to make equipment without a very kind GM. I like how you chose Spirit Bane, water. That's pretty fun. It seems like you have enough negative qualities - more is probably pushing it. Looks fun! Edit: Corrected who I quoted. Sorry! |
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Nov 14 2007, 11:28 PM
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#33
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
hey, watch the quotes!
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Nov 14 2007, 11:56 PM
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#34
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
I'd drop a lot of the rating 1 skills that you don't plan to build too high later on, and concentrate those BPs on upping the ones that you will want to have at 3 or higher. It costs 4 Karma for skill levels of both 1 and 2 in-game (just as it costs in BPs during chargen), but it costs progressively more Karma to build those skills higher, up to 12 Karma for a skill of 6. Meanwhile that same jump from 5 to 6 (or 4 to 5, or even 3 to 4) costs still costs only 4 BPs during chargen (so long as you are planning on having that high of a skill level eventually anyway). |
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Nov 15 2007, 12:02 AM
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#35
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,269 Joined: 18-September 06 Member No.: 9,421 |
So, not easier to sink, but easier to immobilize, I guess.
Chris |
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Nov 15 2007, 12:05 AM
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#36
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,650 Joined: 21-July 07 Member No.: 12,328 |
What is your availability limit? 12 still?
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Nov 15 2007, 12:07 AM
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#37
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
None! Seriously. :D
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Nov 15 2007, 12:09 AM
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#38
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,269 Joined: 18-September 06 Member No.: 9,421 |
That's true, for some reason(probably because I was sleep deprived and in pain) I was thinking that if I wanted to be able to advance skills decently I would need at least 1 in them when it is really the opposite. Hmmm... time to retool. Anyone have any non-drone suggestions as far as gear and augments go? I mean, obviously Cerebral Boosters and something to make my physicals not suck. Cybereyes probably, though I guess beyond an image link it wouldn't hurt me to just have contacts or goggles. Definitely earbuds or cyberears. Maybe a MathSPU, Reakt, and PuSHeD. Maybe a full cyberlimb so I CAN shoot someone with something other than a drone if I need to. Any suggestions?
Chris |
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Nov 15 2007, 12:10 AM
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#39
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,269 Joined: 18-September 06 Member No.: 9,421 |
Seeing as I'm the lone tech character in a group of mages who all have 200 karma, and I just have 50K :nuyen: to go with that karma, I'm pretty sure I can sell Fisty on any non-insane thing I can afford. I dunno though, first time playing with him as GM he might be strict or might not care at all.
Chris |
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Nov 15 2007, 12:28 AM
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#40
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
I lied! :D That was the rule for converted characters. For new characters ...
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Nov 15 2007, 12:52 AM
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#41
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 573 Joined: 17-September 07 Member No.: 13,319 |
Control Rig; damn expensive for the +2, but being able to hit high Thresholds is good especially in a vehicle that's carrying you and/or your friends and/or the payload, so max that DP! Check with your GM about datajack. By RAW, you can get all the same benefits from a trodenet, but some GMs give datajack an advantage, such as more stable (eg trodenet gets misaligned during a crash = you lose your connection) or more stealthy (although trodenet can go under a wig). Sams deal with a fight by dropping all the enemies; others can deal with a fight by surviving, escaping, and getting their own specialty to bear on the situation - in your case, summoning the drone cavalry and/or boarding a vehicle. A few grenades of Thermal Smoke can buy you time in a fight, to get out or for the sammies to take care of the problem. If you have goggles and a top-rated respirator, then although gas might hurt you, it will hurt nearby enemies more, and you will recover before they do. I don't see the advantage of cybereyes over goggles; is there one? If you don't have an initiative pass augment, then consider a drug such as jazz, perhaps in a breakable tooth. Ideally, you'll mostly use Matrix Init, but sometimes ya gotta move your meat body to avoid getting it ventilated. |
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Nov 15 2007, 01:12 AM
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#42
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,650 Joined: 21-July 07 Member No.: 12,328 |
Buy rating 4 skillwires, an expert system, ditch every skill that doesn't meet one of these criteria
A) You have to use it in conjunction with other skills (so like gynmatics because you use it for full defense while clutching a firearm, or perception which gets used all the time) B) You want 5 or 6 ranks in it. Then buy a bunch of activesofts. Also if i was you I'd consider spending a huge chunk of cash and getting a initative booster. Other points: it's more effective to advance attributes with karma than skills (i'm pretty sure, gooing off the top of my head here), so spend those karma points on attributes and set your skills to where you want them, unless skill maxes defy you. This combination of things means you don't have to get any of these [ Spoiler ] Though maybe you want armourer really high for some reason? And as you seem to want some hot boating action, I'd take pilot water to 5 :D Or take gunnery to 6. If you don't want to do hot skillwire action, advancing your stats instead of your skills would still help. |
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Nov 15 2007, 02:29 AM
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#43
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,269 Joined: 18-September 06 Member No.: 9,421 |
I was waffling back and forth between Wired 1 and a renewable autoinjector with extra doses and jazz. The only thing about skillwires is that even with rating 4 skillwires I can only run 2 rating 4 skillsofts at once, which with some skills could pose a problem, and since... actually, the more I think about it the more it works. I can completely work this into the character.... I think. Hmm, I think I can make this work. Let me work on it for a minute and I'll repost.
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Nov 15 2007, 02:43 AM
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#44
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,269 Joined: 18-September 06 Member No.: 9,421 |
Uhg... the problem with skillwires like that is for it to work I need alot more money, which I can get if I drop most of my actual skills for skillwires, but for some reason I just don't particularly like the idea of someone who really doesn't have many skills himself. Though, I did just think of a way to do it as far as backstory. I think. I dunno, it just strikes me as wrong for someone with 200 karma to be so dependent on skillwires.
Chris |
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Nov 15 2007, 02:44 AM
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#45
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,650 Joined: 21-July 07 Member No.: 12,328 |
Yeah, the important thing is that the core skills you'll need at extremely short notice (dodge) or all the time (perception) you actually have.
But it's not like you'll have to fly a plane without enough warning to swap out mechanic for it. Edit: just got your second post. it's just an idea, don't let it disrupt your planning. If I could remember off the top of my head how much an activesoft cost I'd make up a character. I've got a char gen spreadsheet, but not the gear pricings :() |
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Nov 15 2007, 03:06 AM
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#46
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,650 Joined: 21-July 07 Member No.: 12,328 |
Urgh, I'm trying to do it and the issue is not that you don;t have enough points to do it, its that your maximum money pool is limited to 300k, and that just isn't enough money to do it.
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Nov 15 2007, 03:09 AM
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#47
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,269 Joined: 18-September 06 Member No.: 9,421 |
Actually, I don't have a limit on BP spent for money.
Although I am sure Fisty would kill me if I tried, technically I could have 1's in all my attributes and edge and no skills and spend 400 build points on cash to have 2mil + 50K :nuyen: Chris |
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Nov 15 2007, 03:13 AM
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#48
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,650 Joined: 21-July 07 Member No.: 12,328 |
Ohh.
Mhm. Can you convert that KARMA into cash? Its much less useful in a way. |
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Nov 15 2007, 03:16 AM
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#49
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Grand Master of Run-Fu Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,840 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Tir Tairngire Member No.: 178 |
I'd seriously consider those skillwires. They fill the role of stopgap skills nicely. You can still have a lot of skills, you just save the skillwires for something you only want at rating 3, and don't need to use that often. So, rather than buy a Blimp skill at 1, you can get it skillwired at rating 3 for cheaper; and you won't be using that skill unless you're jumped in, anyway.
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Nov 15 2007, 03:17 AM
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#50
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,269 Joined: 18-September 06 Member No.: 9,421 |
He doesn't have Karma to cash rules that I know of. I'm waiting for him to get on tonight so I can deluge him with questions.
Chris |
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