 Some help with KnowSofts and LinguaSofts |
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 Nov 16 2007, 03:20 AM
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#1
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Target  Group: Members Posts: 2 Joined: 19-October 07 Member No.: 13,776  |
Ok, I've looked over the rules and am really confused about how knowsofts and linguasofts work. Activesofts are easy, you need a datajack or internal simsense and total skill points are limited to twice rating. Prices for softs are by rating, easy as pie to understand.
Knowsofts and Linguasofts I'm lost on. They have the same requirement for a datajack or internal simsense rig, but no listing of any limiting factor. In 3.0 chipjacks or headware memory provided a practical limitation on these skills. What's the limiting factor in 4.0? There has to be something otherwise for relatively low nuyen everyone's running around with 5s in a wide variety of skills and languages. What am I missing? Thanks! With a sweep of his hat, Trellan |
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Nov 16 2007, 03:36 AM
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#2
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,664 Joined: 21-September 04 From: Arvada, CO Member No.: 6,686 |
Activesofts need a skillwire setup (or move by wires which double as skillwires). Thats the rating they are limited to.
Knowsofts/linguasofts only need the datajack/trodes/simsense rig. |
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Nov 16 2007, 04:26 AM
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#3
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Target Group: Members Posts: 2 Joined: 19-October 07 Member No.: 13,776 |
So could you have 18 Rating 5 Knowsofts all loaded at the same time? If not, why not?
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Nov 16 2007, 04:54 AM
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#4
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,664 Joined: 21-September 04 From: Arvada, CO Member No.: 6,686 |
Yeah, you can.
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Nov 16 2007, 05:00 AM
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#5
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Grand Master of Run-Fu Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,840 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Tir Tairngire Member No.: 178 |
Check me on this, but if you have any piece of internal cyber, couldn't you just store your knowsofts on that? Thus eliminating the need for the datajack or trode setup? Or just use wireless to transfer the data to your headware?
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Nov 16 2007, 05:19 AM
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#6
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
You need the datajack/trodes/etc. to actually use the Knowsoft/Linguasoft. It's the processor as well as the interface.
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Nov 16 2007, 05:33 AM
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#7
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 263 Joined: 18-October 03 From: Cal Free State Member No.: 5,734 |
Specifically, you need a direct neural interface to run knowsofts and linguasofts. The DNIs available are datajack, trodes, and internal(read: implanted cyberware) commlink.
And yes, skillwires for activesofts, limited to the rating of the skillwires for any one skill, total activesoft rating at any given moment of skillwire rating X2. |
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Nov 16 2007, 06:01 AM
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#8
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 341 Joined: 3-October 05 Member No.: 7,802 |
The catch with knowsofts (and to a slightly lesser extent linguisofts) is there are so many possible options, you could spend thousands of yen on them and not have the right one for the situation. Also the info in a knowsoft can become out of date, or the GM could rule there isn't a knowsoft to cover that subject especially if it is regarding underground activities or fluid subjects like gang territories.
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Nov 16 2007, 06:46 AM
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#9
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,269 Joined: 18-September 06 Member No.: 9,421 |
For gang territories, my groups hacker has hosted a map on the Matrix, wiki style, where whenever one gang pushes another back etc. anyone who knows about it can come change it. Well, a restricted wiki he only lets certain people do it. But it has been working fairly well so far. If something changes we usually find out within a few hours, but then again we are in a gang ourselves.
Chris |
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Nov 16 2007, 06:51 AM
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#10
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,288 Joined: 4-September 06 From: The Scandinavian Federation Member No.: 9,300 |
Well if knowsofts can go out of date, so can human knowledge skills. You've been away 2 months in Yucatan? Sorry, your Gang ID know skill is suddenly almost useless. Although I would rather just apply a penalty that will gradually disappear as the PC get's updated... that's both the character and the computer program. I'll imagine Knowsofts are continually updated from a main database, unless this function is deactivated. Most knowskills wouldn't need this often though, how often does "19th century classical music" change? PCs are free to spend 100k in knowsofts and linguasofts if they wish. Everyone should have 2-3 linguasofts though... it's just stupid not to. |
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Nov 16 2007, 07:26 AM
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#11
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 7,116 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,449 |
Knowsofts cost 1,000 :nuyen: per rating point, linguasofts 500 :nuyen: . I don't consider those amounts pocket change! That might be affordable for a successful shadowrunner, but even an upper-end runner will probably be judicious about skill selection at those prices, and the average citizen will use knowsofts at low ratings, and rarely. |
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Nov 16 2007, 03:51 PM
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#12
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,664 Joined: 21-September 04 From: Arvada, CO Member No.: 6,686 |
Wrong. Specifically you need a sim module to run know softs and lingua softs. Sim modules require a DNI (trodes/datajack). |
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Nov 16 2007, 04:12 PM
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#13
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The Dragon Never Sleeps Group: Admin Posts: 6,924 Joined: 1-September 05 Member No.: 7,667 |
Can you cite some support for this? I can find an example of this. p. 331 "Datajack: A datajack allows a user to directly interface with any electronic device via a fiberoptic cable. Datajacks also allow users to slot and mentally access chips, softs, and BTLs. Datajacks equipped with their own memory storage for downloading or saving files. Two datajack users can string a fiberoptic cable between themselves to conduct a private mental communication immune to radio interception/ eavesdropping." The datajack does not require simsense module, yet allows the use of chips and softs. Also, p. 321 "Linguasoft: Linguasofts replicate language skills, allowing the user to speak a foreign language as fluently as her native language. Linguasofts may also be used as real-time translation programs. Linguasofts must be accessed with a direct neural link (either a sim module or datajack)." The use of "or datajack" is something to note here. And p. 320 "Knowsoft: Knowsofts replicate Knowledge skills, actively overwriting the user’s knowledge with their own data. Knowsofts must be accessed with a direct neural link (either a sim module or datajack)." Same thing "or datajack" This seems to me to indicate any DNI interface will do. Of course you might be saying that Datajacks get simsense included for free? |
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Nov 16 2007, 04:25 PM
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#14
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,664 Joined: 21-September 04 From: Arvada, CO Member No.: 6,686 |
You quoted it there yourself. It appears that the text for know/lingua softs implies that datajacks come with a simmodule, but they don't. Thusly, I'd say the text for know/lingua softs is in error, and should be errataed to either remove the "or datajack", or follow what it says above about "direct neural link" and replace "sim module" with trodes.
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Nov 16 2007, 04:32 PM
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#15
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The Dragon Never Sleeps Group: Admin Posts: 6,924 Joined: 1-September 05 Member No.: 7,667 |
What about the bit that says "Linguasofts must be accessed with a direct neural link "? and p. 330 "In addition to wireless functionality, most cyberware devices are equipped with a direct neural interface (DNI) that allows the user to mentally activate and control their functions." and for the sim module itself p. 318 "A sim module must be accessed via trodes or a direct neural interface (datajack, implanted commlink, etc)." They must also be incorrect because because you are saying DNI= Sim module? |
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Nov 16 2007, 04:36 PM
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#16
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,664 Joined: 21-September 04 From: Arvada, CO Member No.: 6,686 |
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Nov 16 2007, 04:42 PM
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#17
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The Dragon Never Sleeps Group: Admin Posts: 6,924 Joined: 1-September 05 Member No.: 7,667 |
Just because A can use B which requires C doesn't mean A cannot also use C.
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Nov 16 2007, 04:45 PM
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#18
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,664 Joined: 21-September 04 From: Arvada, CO Member No.: 6,686 |
There are 2 methods for direct neural link. 1) Datajack. 2) Trodes.
Thusly, to fix the text to match the direct neural link portion of it, it should read "softs must be accessed with a direct neural link (either trodes or datajack)." |
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Nov 16 2007, 04:50 PM
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#19
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Prime Runner Group: Banned Posts: 3,732 Joined: 1-September 05 From: Prague, Czech Republic Member No.: 7,665 |
A Sim Module just converts a data stream into simsense for a brain to interpret. If the data stream is already formatted into simsense, the sim module is not required. A Knowsoft is more expensive than a datasoft because it has already been formated for your brain to use. The sim module is not required if you have a data jack.
-Frank |
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Nov 16 2007, 04:53 PM
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#20
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,664 Joined: 21-September 04 From: Arvada, CO Member No.: 6,686 |
Shouldn't trodes also not require a sim module frank?
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Nov 16 2007, 04:57 PM
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#21
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,246 Joined: 8-June 07 Member No.: 11,869 |
Just say no to trodes. Datajacks are what put the cyber into cyberpunk. If you want to hook up to the machine, you have to get your brain dirty by stitching it with wires.
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Nov 16 2007, 04:59 PM
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#22
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Prime Runner Group: Banned Posts: 3,732 Joined: 1-September 05 From: Prague, Czech Republic Member No.: 7,665 |
I refuse to discuss trodes in any detail as every time I do that it sparks a 300 post flame war. -Frank |
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Nov 16 2007, 05:01 PM
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#23
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,664 Joined: 21-September 04 From: Arvada, CO Member No.: 6,686 |
Fine. Shouldn't any other method of DNI also not require a sim module?
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Nov 16 2007, 05:10 PM
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#24
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Grand Master of Run-Fu Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,840 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Tir Tairngire Member No.: 178 |
And what happens if you have skillwires, but no datajack?
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Nov 16 2007, 05:13 PM
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#25
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The Dragon Never Sleeps Group: Admin Posts: 6,924 Joined: 1-September 05 Member No.: 7,667 |
Skillwires are implanted cyberware? |
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