 Whats the dif between foci and fetish? |
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 Dec 3 2007, 07:12 AM
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#1
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Shooting Target  Group: Members Posts: 1,711 Joined: 15-June 06 Member No.: 8,716  |
Hi. The core book talks about limiting spells when you learn them which require fetishes but it doesnt talk about fetishes anywhere else!!!
#1. How much do they cost?? #2. Do you have to bond them? In the section on Foci it says you can only use one foci to help with any particular spell. #3. Can you use a foci and a fetish for the same spell? #4. Do fetishs have a maximum number that you can have? Do they count towards a foci's max limit of Logic? Can you make a foci/fetish be a tatoo?? Bond the ink and then get it tatoo'ed into your skin? How would you guys feel about cosmetic surgeries to insert objects into the body?? The best most vivid example I could think of is how some people get different kind of body studs. Like spikes along their forehead or the top of their heads. |
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Dec 3 2007, 08:58 AM
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#2
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 249 Joined: 2-November 06 From: Bozeman, MT Member No.: 9,762 |
Ok I'll take a crack at this:
1. Costs are listed on Page 340 of SR4. The cost varies by spell type. 2. No, but they have to be attuned to the magician and the Spell. Spells are attuned to a specific fetish when they are learned. (Essentially this only becomes an issue during game play if you lose your fetish(es), There are no complications at chargen.) 3. The section on foci says that "only one focus may add its Force to any single dice pool." So actually you can have a power focus help you cast a spell and then use a spellcasting focus to help resist the drain from that same spell. The foci section mentions nothing about fetishes, so I'd assume you can use both on the same test, especially as you don't really have a choice about the fetish; without it you can't cast the spell. 4. Nope. Fetishes cannot be activated, and aren't foci, so they don't count against the number of bound foci (magic) or active foci (logic). Tatoos: I really don't think so. Both foci and fetishes must be enchanted (see Street Magic) and I don't think that can be done on ink. It should be noted that the Tatooing Metamagic present in previous editions of SR was very similar to Quickening. In fact, I think you could use Quikening as Tatooing by specifying your quickening materials to be Inks. Now, as a GM I would be highly opposed to any character implanting their fetishes or foci. Sure it could work, but it removes the primary disadvantage (i.e. game balancing mechanism) of fetishes and to a lesser extent foci (I consider their primary disadvantage to be cost). The GM could easily rule that such an invasive surgery would cost essence loss. The only implantations that do not seem to cause essence loss are of Items/spaces of micro size or less (e.g. RFID tags, tooth compartments). That being said, I think there was one example in one of the novels of a focus in the form of an earing. Which I would probably allow. |
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Dec 3 2007, 11:26 AM
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#3
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,711 Joined: 15-June 06 Member No.: 8,716 |
Man I Just hate the idea of having a mage that is all tatoo'ed up and them not actually doing anything. Shamans draw and make stuff and play music you know they would decorate their own bodies too.
Oh well, thanx for the reply. |
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Dec 3 2007, 03:26 PM
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#4
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Cybernetic Blood Mage Group: Members Posts: 3,472 Joined: 11-March 06 From: Northeastern Wyoming Member No.: 8,361 |
Also if I remember correctly, the newest IE on the block has a focus of some sort wrapped around her thigh bone, so it seems that implanted foci does work.
However, in Fourth by RAW if getting a new face costs Essence then so should wrapping a piece of magical metal around one of your bones. However, personally I've already houseruled that part of AUG away so in my games it's perfectly doable, BUT the downside is that due to the special interactions that has to take place implanted foci costs more and shine in the Mage's Aura. |
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Dec 3 2007, 03:37 PM
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#5
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Shooting Target Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,755 Joined: 5-September 06 From: UCAS Member No.: 9,313 |
Tattoos are still in SR4 there just used in Quickening now. Pg 85 SM Using quickening materials to bind a spell leave a brand,ritual scar or tattoo. |
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Dec 3 2007, 04:00 PM
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#6
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,748 Joined: 5-July 02 Member No.: 2,935 |
You can implant foci-hell, you could enchant a cyberarm as a weapon focus and have fun with our unarmed attacks-but you have to enchant the 'ware before you implant it. The focus will still be visible (and vulnerable) in the target's aura when activated; the rest of the time it'll look like any other implant. Re: Tattoo fetishes -> It was considered, but the main point of having a fetish or talisman is that it can potentially by taken away. Ripping out a fetish earring or tongue stud might not be as easy as picking somebody's pocket to get rid of their lucky rabbit's foot, but it's decidedly easier than trying to carve off the chunk of hide on your ass where you've got that tattoo hidden. In your own games, it's really up to you. |
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Dec 3 2007, 06:49 PM
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#7
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,537 Joined: 27-August 06 From: Albuquerque NM Member No.: 9,234 |
It takes all the fun that you get when you get kicked out of the banditios or the angels and they want ALL the gang insignia returned. Tattoos included. (Though they will typically accept it if you ink them out, assuming you didn't really piss them off.)
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Dec 3 2007, 08:52 PM
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#8
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,711 Joined: 15-June 06 Member No.: 8,716 |
Heh well the first thing that comes to mind about tatoo fetishs and you guys saying there are no disadvantges. What if another mage cast a laser removal spell lol. or pulled a magneto and like sucked the metal/ink out of your body.
Is that quickening stuff in Street magic? I dont have that. |
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Dec 3 2007, 09:21 PM
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#9
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Genuine Artificial Intelligence Group: Members Posts: 4,019 Joined: 12-June 03 Member No.: 4,715 |
Yes, surely that is a far more likely scenario than someone doing something unkind to a focus which is pinned to your shirt or held in your hand. :S Nothing is foolproof, but tattoo foci are relatively fool-resistant. |
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Dec 4 2007, 12:31 AM
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#10
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Mr. Johnson Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,148 Joined: 27-February 06 From: UCAS Member No.: 8,314 |
Did something get changed and we can use foci on Drain Tests now? |
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Dec 4 2007, 12:57 AM
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#11
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Always could. ;) There is some controversy through the Errata over that particular use in connection with Spellcasting Foci (and only Spellcasting Foci) though. |
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Dec 4 2007, 10:42 PM
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#12
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Mr. Johnson Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,148 Joined: 27-February 06 From: UCAS Member No.: 8,314 |
Wait, are you talking about spell foci (which are explicitly for Spellcasting and Ritual Spellcasting dice pools, which aren't Drain Resistance dice pools) or power foci (which are explicitly for tests involving the Magic attribute, which do not include Drain Resistance Tests)? |
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Dec 4 2007, 10:54 PM
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#13
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 7,089 Joined: 4-October 05 Member No.: 7,813 |
go to page 191 of your core book.
read the brief paragraph under "spellcasting foci" ;) |
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Dec 4 2007, 11:43 PM
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#14
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Power Foci cannot be used for Drain tests, but Summoning and Spellcasting Foci (despite the Errata) can be utilized in that manner. |
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Dec 5 2007, 12:23 AM
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#15
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Mr. Johnson Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,148 Joined: 27-February 06 From: UCAS Member No.: 8,314 |
I did here's what I read:
My copy includes the errata.
I don't recall that being written in any SR4 book I'm familiar with, nor is it addressed in the FAQ. Could you offer a reference? Or is this a house rule that you prefer? |
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Dec 5 2007, 12:38 AM
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#16
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,748 Joined: 5-July 02 Member No.: 2,935 |
In the original version of SR4, there is a line on Spellcasting, Summoning, and Binding foci to the effect that dice from the foci can be withheld from the test to help with Drain. This was actually a reference to an SR3 rule, and is noted in the FAQ:
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Dec 5 2007, 01:53 AM
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#17
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
You could withhold dice during Summoning in SR3 without using Foci of any kind. I believe that is the question being answered in the FAQ. Aaron: I have SR4 v1.3, and it reads ...
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Dec 5 2007, 02:29 AM
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#18
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 393 Joined: 23-December 05 From: Texarkana, TX Member No.: 8,097 |
I have no problem with a focus (ie a tool to augment ones power) like a power or sustaining or whatever focus bing crafted as a tattoo. It would cost a little bit more, but I really like the flavor of the idea. Obviously a tattoo focus would have some drawbacks like being fairly hard to conceal (I would rule that they would have to be fairly significant in size). And if the focus was active you might become partial dual natured, making you vulnerable to attacks from the astral plane.
I would not allow a tattoo to be used as a fetish (ie a crutch a magician requires to cast a spell). As Ancient History says one of the drawbacks of a fetish is that it can be taken away, potentially robbing you of the power. Obviously this limitation is much harder to apply to a tattoo. |
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Dec 5 2007, 12:35 PM
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#19
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Mr. Johnson Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,148 Joined: 27-February 06 From: UCAS Member No.: 8,314 |
May I recommend updating your version to the most recent version? |
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Dec 5 2007, 01:44 PM
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#20
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
As I have said multiple times in this thread alone, I am fully aware of what the latest Errata says. I will even quote the entirety of the changes to the text of page 191, which applies only to Spellcasting Foci, as I have alluded to a few times already.
Absolutely no mention of any changes to the other Foci that I listed above (which is why I listed all three instead of just Spellcasting Foci alone). You might even note the reference to the Errata (you even quoted said reference) in that very same post. |
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Dec 5 2007, 08:38 PM
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#21
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Mr. Johnson Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,148 Joined: 27-February 06 From: UCAS Member No.: 8,314 |
I did, indeed, notice that you listed three references from the book, but I was puzzled as to why. I had thought we were talking about spellcasting foci. |
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Dec 5 2007, 10:41 PM
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#22
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,711 Joined: 15-June 06 Member No.: 8,716 |
Ok I have more questions!!! Try to forget about what foci can be used when hehehe.
-I cant find anything about casting spells AT Foci/Fetish in order to kill them/disrupt them. Anyone have page references in the core book or can talk about it? If I have an active foci on my character what all can happen to it or me due to the actions of an enemy mage. -What are some good examples of the forms a fetish can take. If you use fetishes how do you store them on your person? I love the concept of having like a medicine pound either around my neck or a bag tied off on my waste but those seem really easy to steal. Whats the best way to secure them without crossing the line of removing the disadvantage of maybe losing them. Each spell catagory is tied to a spirit type. So I was thinking I would have bits of animal for beast fetishs, rocks or pebbles for earth fetishs. What would you guys use for air spirit related fetishes? What about fire and water? Oh I was thinking high tech the other night. Having little sqaure chunks of metal that have had things etched into their surface on a microscopic/nano level. For a mage their would be desgins and for shamans they would be more artistic images. |
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Dec 6 2007, 12:16 AM
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#23
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Throughout this thread, I have always been talking about more than just Spellcasting Foci.
You even quoted me as talking about such, and questioned me on it.
I fail to see where your confusion comes from. There is some debate as to whether the Errata for Spellcasting Foci was inadvertently changed to disallow its use for Drain, because the original printing had an extra half sentence that did need to be deleted. Note that the two other Foci that I listed (as for the reason I listed them, you stated that you did not recall Spellcasting or Summoning Foci being described as being used in Drain tests in a SR book, as I quoted above) have not been Errata'ed (in two editions, since the Spellcasting Foci change was in the 4th Errata, and as you note we are now on the 5th), which is telling evidence that a mistake may have been made. |
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Dec 6 2007, 12:28 AM
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#24
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Mr. Johnson Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,148 Joined: 27-February 06 From: UCAS Member No.: 8,314 |
I use the Barrier Rating table on page 157. A focus is an object, after all. |
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Dec 6 2007, 12:30 AM
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#25
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Mr. Johnson Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,148 Joined: 27-February 06 From: UCAS Member No.: 8,314 |
Re-read my first post in this thread. |
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