 Whats the dif between foci and fetish? |
  |
 Dec 6 2007, 12:47 AM
Post
#26
|
|
|
Dragon  Group: Members Posts: 4,664 Joined: 21-September 04 From: Arvada, CO Member No.: 6,686  |
Any active foci can be attacked in astral space via astral combat or mana spells to disable it. It resists with force (or possibly double force, don't quite remember).
|
 |
 
|
|
Dec 6 2007, 12:59 AM
Post
#27
|
|
|
Grand Master of Run-Fu Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,840 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Tir Tairngire Member No.: 178 |
A focus or a fetish can also be attacked in the mundane world, as if it were any other object. The trick is recognizing it as a focus or fetish.
|
|
|
|
|
Dec 6 2007, 01:14 AM
Post
#28
|
|||||||||
|
Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
I quoted your first post in this thread numerous times. I'll do it again.
You might note the total lack of any mention of Spellcasting Foci in your post. Even if we do assume that the Errata is correct in regards to Spellcasting Foci and Drain, that still leaves Binding and Summoning Foci that are still usable in Drain tests, which is what I have been trying to explain to you. |
||||||||
|
|
|
||||||||
|
Dec 6 2007, 01:35 AM
Post
#29
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 249 Joined: 2-November 06 From: Bozeman, MT Member No.: 9,762 |
Anyone know a reason why they erratta'd spellcasting foci so that they couldn't be used on drain resistance tests without changing the others? If not then I'm inclined to allow its use for drain resistance (in any games I run). I don't see any reason why it would be unbalancing or illogical or anything along those lines. If you have some idea, I'd appreciate hearing about it.
|
|
|
|
|
Dec 6 2007, 01:42 AM
Post
#30
|
|
|
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 7,089 Joined: 4-October 05 Member No.: 7,813 |
i would allow spellcasting foci to add to drain resistance simply because power focus is a complete replacement for them otherwise, personally.
|
|
|
|
|
Dec 6 2007, 04:16 AM
Post
#31
|
|||||||||
|
Mr. Johnson Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,148 Joined: 27-February 06 From: UCAS Member No.: 8,314 |
If by "total lack of any mention" you mean "mentioned in the quoted text," then I agree with you.
Excellent point. You may have just hit on a very good reason to use (or buy) Astral Perception.
Well, first and foremost, it's your game, so you can run it any way you like. As to why they'd remove focus dice for Drain (even if only from spellcasting, thank you, Fortune), I can think of two reasons. First, it streamlines the game a bit. Second, spellcasting Drain is pretty cheap. As to why spellcasting would be disallowed while summoning and banishing are still fair game, the Drain for conjuring can be (and tends to be) much more harsh than for spells; an allowance for a Drain resistance bonus could be an attempt to make that less harsh. These are just (educated, I'd like to think) guesses on my part.
I disagree with your reasoning. A power focus is, what, something like two-thirds more in nuyen and twice the karma, ne? There's a balancing act there as far as efficiency goes. If you have a caster that tends to use more than two categories on a regular basis, then a power focus would be the way to go. On the other hand, one can get twice the Force out of a spellcasting focus for the same Karma, so there's an opportunity cost there, too. |
||||||||
|
|
|
||||||||
|
Dec 6 2007, 04:34 AM
Post
#32
|
|||||||||
|
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,748 Joined: 5-July 02 Member No.: 2,935 |
If I had to float a guess, I'd call it a simple oversight. It seems very clear that the intent was to remove an erronous reference to an old rule. As far as not using foci to aid with Drain tests, my guess is they used the logic that since the foci added to a specific skill, and that skill is not used to handle drain, neither should the focus. Or maybe it was just an accidental removal when they tried to fix the retention rule reference.
Not...quite. If (and the edition is young, it might happen) you ever had a Spellcasting or Ritual Spellcasting skill Test that didn't use magic, a spellcasting focus would help you while a power focus would not. Besides which, they're cheaper. :P
Generally small, personal items. Rings, for example, a variety of amulets, mojo bags, chicken's foot on a leather thong, daggers, headbands, paper charms, watches, scrolls-there is no set standard. You might check Street Magic for some ideas, though.
According to Street Magic, active foci are dual natured (meaning you can target them with Mana spells on the astral plane, though only Physical damage will affect them); active foci possess astral forms that accompany the astral form of the owner when projecting. |
||||||||
|
|
|
||||||||
|
Dec 21 2007, 09:10 PM
Post
#33
|
|
|
Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,711 Joined: 15-June 06 Member No.: 8,716 |
Ok I have a very simple question this time.
"Fetishes are...made for a specific catagory of spells." "When the spell is learned it is attuned to that particular fetish" Does that mean each spell needs its own fetish or that you can attune multiple spells to the same fetish as long as it is the proper catagory?? |
|
|
|
|
Dec 21 2007, 10:09 PM
Post
#34
|
|
|
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,748 Joined: 5-July 02 Member No.: 2,935 |
Each spell needs its own fetish, each fetish must be of the proper category for the spell it is attuned to.
|
|
|
|
|
Dec 21 2007, 10:22 PM
Post
#35
|
|
|
The ShadowComedian Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 14,538 Joined: 3-October 07 From: Hamburg, AGS Member No.: 13,525 |
can't believe nobody made that crack yet . . ever tried to focus on anything else while confronted with your fetish? *g*
|
|
|
|
|
Dec 20 2008, 09:59 AM
Post
#36
|
|
|
Target Group: Members Posts: 20 Joined: 26-March 07 Member No.: 11,310 |
Howdy. Back to the tattoo thing.
If you make it a Geas: "Touch tattoo" it would work. Make a tattoo for each spell, then it will amke him want to run around barechested, or only in a vest, needing to touch the tattoos. How would you see them anyway. |
|
|
|
|
Dec 20 2008, 10:19 AM
Post
#37
|
|
|
Grand Master of Run-Fu Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,840 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Tir Tairngire Member No.: 178 |
If you make it a geas, then it doesn't matter if it's a fetish or focus. It's basically a modified Talisman geas, with the additional caveat that it cannot be taken away.
|
|
|
|
|
Dec 20 2008, 10:39 AM
Post
#38
|
|
|
Target Group: Members Posts: 20 Joined: 26-March 07 Member No.: 11,310 |
Right, but he said something like "I don't want them to mean nothing." That's how we did tattoo mages, they took a geas starting to touch them to use. It's like the chanting geas. You can't take it away. But you can cover the tattoo, or bind his hands to keep him from touching them.
|
|
|
|
|
Dec 20 2008, 11:17 AM
Post
#39
|
|
|
The ShadowComedian Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 14,538 Joined: 3-October 07 From: Hamburg, AGS Member No.: 13,525 |
the most important difference between foci and fetish?
foci=plural(several) fetish=singular(one) |
|
|
|
|
Dec 20 2008, 11:43 AM
Post
#40
|
|
|
Grand Master of Run-Fu Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,840 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Tir Tairngire Member No.: 178 |
QUOTE (xicidis @ Dec 20 2008, 02:39 AM)  Right, but he said something like "I don't want them to mean nothing." That's how we did tattoo mages, they took a geas starting to touch them to use. It's like the chanting geas. You can't take it away. But you can cover the tattoo, or bind his hands to keep him from touching them. Unless, of course, the tattoos are on his hands. That would be a Condition geas (must be holding hands together), which may or may not fly at individual tables; he could be holding a gun between his hands and still fulfill the geas. If you mean you want to restrict the armor a mage can wear while fulfilling a geas, then you may as well make it: "Must be barechested". |
|
|
|
|
Dec 21 2008, 02:59 AM
Post
#41
|
|
|
Neophyte Runner Group: Validating Posts: 2,283 Joined: 12-October 07 Member No.: 13,662 |
QUOTE (Aaron @ Dec 5 2007, 11:16 PM) I disagree with your reasoning. A power focus is, what, something like two-thirds more in nuyen and twice the karma, ne? There's a balancing act there as far as efficiency goes. If you have a caster that tends to use more than two categories on a regular basis, then a power focus would be the way to go. On the other hand, one can get twice the Force out of a spellcasting focus for the same Karma, so there's an opportunity cost there, too. You've missed something else here. Spellcasting focus is specific to a single school of magic as well. So even though it's only half the cost, it would only add dice to say combat spells for a combat spell focus. I quote "Each spell focus must be attuned to a specific category of spells", and that applies to all 3 spellcasting, counterspelling, and sustaining foci. Spirit foci have a similar restriction where they're limited to a single type of spirit. So I'm also inclined to agree w/ the original poster... w/o the ability to withhold the focus dice. They're BADLY overcosted. There's a reason why power focus, sustaining foci, and some of the other advanced metamagic focus are really the only worthwhile ones. For twice the price, I get the power focus and add the dice to all the casting tests and completely ignore the other 'minor' foci as they're simply not worth the cost generally. I have no idea what the current state of the errata is since it keeps changing for reasons I can't fathom. |
|
|
|
|
Dec 21 2008, 03:05 AM
Post
#42
|
|
|
Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
There is no point in Spellcasting Foci unless they can be used on the Drain Resistance test. They are fair value if they can be used in such a manner though. The Errata is weird, and wrong as far as I am concerned.
|
|
|
|
|
Dec 21 2008, 03:32 AM
Post
#43
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 825 Joined: 21-October 08 Member No.: 16,538 |
QUOTE (Ravor @ Dec 3 2007, 03:26 PM) Also if I remember correctly, the newest IE on the block has a focus of some sort wrapped around her thigh bone, so it seems that implanted foci does work. Frosty's focus was blown up, and it was her thigh bone transformed by her father to hide her from any magicians not as potent or versed in magical lore So, basically, anyone bar Harlequin. The other IE's could probably poke their heads in with a bit more effort, but they'd have to know it was there. And isn't the Blood Queen's Daughter the newest IE? |
|
|
|
|
Dec 21 2008, 04:26 AM
Post
#44
|
|
|
Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,188 Joined: 9-February 08 From: Boiling Springs Member No.: 15,665 |
Hey quick question about a fetish: What would everyone here say about a Chaos Mage with a fetish in the form of a rune covered Datachip?
I can see the "reason" for the reduced drain is because of the "programs" that were put on to the chip by the Chaos Mage. |
|
|
|
|
Dec 21 2008, 04:59 AM
Post
#45
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 616 Joined: 30-April 07 From: Edge of the Redmond Barrens, Borderline NAN. Runnin' the border for literal milk runs. Member No.: 11,565 |
A rune covered datachip isn't any different from a rabbit's foot. More power.
|
|
|
|
|
Dec 21 2008, 05:29 AM
Post
#46
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 393 Joined: 23-December 05 From: Texarkana, TX Member No.: 8,097 |
QUOTE (KCKitsune @ Dec 21 2008, 12:26 AM) Hey quick question about a fetish: What would everyone here say about a Chaos Mage with a fetish in the form of a rune covered Datachip? I can see the "reason" for the reduced drain is because of the "programs" that were put on to the chip by the Chaos Mage. Sure why not? Cost and what not would of course remain the same. |
|
|
|
|
Dec 21 2008, 10:39 AM
Post
#47
|
|
|
Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,188 Joined: 9-February 08 From: Boiling Springs Member No.: 15,665 |
QUOTE (MaxMahem @ Dec 21 2008, 12:29 AM) Sure why not? Cost and what not would of course remain the same. Of course! Also the datachip would be set to read only because ANY change in the structure (an data written to it) would destroy it's ability to be a fetish. Now would any of you allow that datachip fetish to have data on it before it was changed into fetish. |
|
|
|
|
Dec 21 2008, 12:03 PM
Post
#48
|
|
|
Grand Master of Run-Fu Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,840 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Tir Tairngire Member No.: 178 |
QUOTE (KCKitsune @ Dec 21 2008, 02:39 AM) Of course! Also the datachip would be set to read only because ANY change in the structure (an data written to it) would destroy it's ability to be a fetish. Now would any of you allow that datachip fetish to have data on it before it was changed into fetish. Sure, why not? A fetish can be anything. In fact, given that everything is wireless in SR4, your fetishes are probably wireless-enabled to start with, and have unlimited storage memory. |
|
|
|
|
Dec 21 2008, 03:17 PM
Post
#49
|
|
|
Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,188 Joined: 9-February 08 From: Boiling Springs Member No.: 15,665 |
QUOTE (Cain @ Dec 21 2008, 07:03 AM) Sure, why not? A fetish can be anything. In fact, given that everything is wireless in SR4, your fetishes are probably wireless-enabled to start with, and have unlimited storage memory. Actually I believe that the SR4 BBB states that once a focus or a fetish it is created it can NOT be changed at *ALL*. If I were running the game and the Chaos Mage used his fetish data chip to record data then I would say that the fetish would be destroyed. |
|
|
|
|
Dec 22 2008, 03:13 AM
Post
#50
|
|
|
Grand Master of Run-Fu Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,840 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Tir Tairngire Member No.: 178 |
QUOTE (KCKitsune @ Dec 21 2008, 07:17 AM) Actually I believe that the SR4 BBB states that once a focus or a fetish it is created it can NOT be changed at *ALL*. If I were running the game and the Chaos Mage used his fetish data chip to record data then I would say that the fetish would be destroyed. I'm afraid you're wrong. Neither section in the BBB mentions that a focus cannot be cosmetically altered at all, let alone a fetish. If that were the case, a weapon focus that took so much as a chip to the blade would be rendered forever useless. |
|
|
|
|
|
Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: 31st July 2025 - 12:52 AM |
Topps, Inc has sole ownership of the names, logo, artwork, marks, photographs, sounds, audio, video and/or any proprietary material used in connection with the game Shadowrun. Topps, Inc has granted permission to the Dumpshock Forums to use such names, logos, artwork, marks and/or any proprietary materials for promotional and informational purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not affiliated with the Dumpshock Forums in any official capacity whatsoever.