 Shadowrun without Earthdawn as past, Quick Poll |
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 Dec 13 2007, 07:11 AM
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#151
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Great Dragon  Group: Members Posts: 7,116 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,449  |
How is "most serious people believe..." not an insult to anyone who doesn't "believe" what he thinks most "serious" people believe? And "a giant, invisible superhero who lives in outer space" was just an exceptionally offensive way of categorizing the beliefs of anyone who doesn't see God as a "metaphor". He was being an asshat, and I called him on it. End of story.
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Dec 13 2007, 07:29 AM
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#152
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Whatever you think. Not my problem. Have a nice day. :)
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Dec 13 2007, 07:34 AM
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#153
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,883 Joined: 16-December 06 Member No.: 10,386 |
Erm, yeah, I just don't see anything wrong with what Mercer said. If there's anything I learned in Catholic school (I basically fly between atheism and seriously considering becoming a priest on a yearly basis), it's that the whole "made in His image" thing aside, God is beyond mortal ken, and as such our understanding of Him IS quite quite literally a metaphor, whether He is real or not. The world isn't South Park and Jesus is not just some dude hanging out with the other deities getting into the occasional crazy misadventure, and as such it's just really for the good of the setting that Shadowrun doesn't touch such an idea with a ten foot pole. There's enough metaphysical implications going on as it is without the devs pissing everyone off and getting in waaay over their heads, after all.
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Dec 13 2007, 01:25 PM
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#154
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
you are mistaken. Mercer wasn't talking about the beliefs of anyone who doesn't see God as a metaphor, he was talking about people who believe, specifically, that gods are gigantic humanoids that run around physically fighting each other. i know this because he was responding, specifically, to a post that categorized gods as gigantic humanoids who run around physically fighting each other. if you want to call someone an asshat for that, at least attribute the alleged asshattery to the person who actually said it first, instead of jumping on the guy who happened to be discussing said allegedly asshatish metaphor. |
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Dec 13 2007, 03:40 PM
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#155
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 830 Joined: 3-April 04 From: Columbus, Ohio Member No.: 6,215 |
I really think the bit about what "most serious people don't believe" was nothing more than an effort to pre-empt asshats like me flippantly saying something like "I believe God is a giant invisible humanoid stalking the stars looking for injustice to fight. Also, he's a robot. And a ninja." From the rest of his post, it sure looks like he was making every reasonable effort to avoid accidentally offending anyone. If you're offended, then he obviously did offend someone, but I think the mere fact that he was making the effort should at least be enough for him to avoid getting called an asshat. He was just trying to contribute to a conversation; he wasn't declaring a crusade against anyone.
*edited for typographical errors |
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Dec 13 2007, 04:35 PM
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#156
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,326 Joined: 15-April 02 Member No.: 2,600 |
Hi everybody. (I'm glad the general consensus is I'm not a dick, although I suppose that could all change tomorrow.)
I was specifically addressing the point as to why, if belief influences reality in SR, the major religions that have billions of believers aren't represented more explicitly in SR Magic. It was a fair question, because the books repeatedly imply that belief does influence magic, and yet very little beyond a passing mention is made to organized religions. I could expound on that topic come more, but considering that post went unremarked for three days and even now the discussion isn't about what was said but the way I said it, its probably not worth the effort. (I will say that it seems in SR that a billion people believing something doesn't give one person powers, it matters more what that one person believes.) Beyond that, I'm not really interested in getting into a debate on religion because 1) its not relevant to the topic at hand (how belief affects magical ability in SR), and 2) I'm never particularly interested in getting into a debate on religion. (Maybe I violated my own rule about the three things you never discuss in polite company, Politics, Religion and the Great Pumpkin.) I'm not particularly interested in being called an asshat either, but I can weather the occasional slings and arrows. |
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Dec 13 2007, 11:58 PM
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#157
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Cybernetic Blood Mage Group: Members Posts: 3,472 Joined: 11-March 06 From: Northeastern Wyoming Member No.: 8,361 |
Well I for one would enjoy additional expounding. :cyber:
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Dec 14 2007, 04:26 AM
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#158
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 438 Joined: 21-September 07 From: Houston Member No.: 13,369 |
i honestly never played Earthdawn so it doesnt have any bearing on me or my games really
I read one of the novels but thats about it |
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Dec 14 2007, 03:45 PM
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#159
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,512 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 392 |
I seem to recall that we have actually already had a thread where this was discussed at length. I have no search-fu whatsoever and so unfortunately can't give you the thread. The discussion wasn't about belief influencing magic but if I recall correctly centered around what sort of demographics we should be seeing for Magical Traditions and the peculiarities that the Awakening wrought on Religion (rise of the Norse and Egyptian pantheons for eg). |
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