 The Sample Characters, We can do better! |
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 Jan 2 2008, 03:24 AM
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#151
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Running Target  Group: Members Posts: 1,416 Joined: 4-March 06 From: Albuquerque Member No.: 8,334  |
LOL I'd almost take "Allergy: Death" myself, but then I just know I'd have zero chance of making it through a resuscitation.
As to the surgical steel, it was the steel they use for pins and screws and stuff they use to put bones together. At least that's as much as I was able to garner. Hmm... Maybe I should start being more curious about my friends' allergies? LOL |
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Jan 2 2008, 03:31 AM
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#152
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,883 Joined: 16-December 06 Member No.: 10,386 |
Plus, imagine if you're fighting multiple opponents.
PC: "Whoa! Critical success! I NAILED that rent-a-cop! Hell, I almost feel sorry for the guy." GM: "Yeah, and with a full narrow from an Ingram I'm not even going to roll his Body. Two more guards just came running around the corner, so roll initiative again. And subtract 2; I think your allergies are flaring up." |
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Jan 2 2008, 12:16 PM
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#153
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Awakened Asset Group: Members Posts: 4,464 Joined: 9-April 05 From: AGS, North German League Member No.: 7,309 |
To elaborate: Nickel is used to improve the corrosion resistance of iron alloys. It is one of three common alloy components (chromium and molybdenum being the others). Let those munchkin allergy takers feel the pain, they brought it upon themselves! You should never fail to educate your players :silly: Yes, surgical steel is a nearly-guranteed candidate since that one needs to be stainless. |
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Jan 2 2008, 10:22 PM
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#154
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,650 Joined: 21-July 07 Member No.: 12,328 |
Yeah, but if someone took allergy: uncommon (gold) and then you tried to make it apply to nickel alloys you're probably being a bastard, being in that nickel alloys are hardly uncommon and are in fact present in just about everything within 5 feet of me except my intray and the paper therein.
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Jan 3 2008, 12:09 AM
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#155
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 263 Joined: 18-October 03 From: Cal Free State Member No.: 5,734 |
...oops, didn't mean to post.
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Jan 3 2008, 02:57 AM
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#156
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 433 Joined: 8-November 07 Member No.: 14,097 |
Here's one, a variant on the Covert Ops specialist. I only used the basic rulebook (no Street Magic stuff). Apologies in advance if it's not min/maxed enough for some of you. ;) [ Spoiler ] Not fantastic in combat (especially given the negative qualities), but using a smartlinked pistol gives 9 dice, more with Attribute Boost: Agility; not too shabby. Infiltration is 9 dice off the bat, not counting the Attribute Boost and spells, while other Stealth skills are at 6 dice. Health and Illusion spells are both at 8 dice, Drain pool is 7 dice, Perception is at 6 (+3 for visual/aural with the right gear). Hardware and other Electronics skills are only at 6 dice, but can be boosted with an Improved Logic spell. A mystic adept involves a lot of compromises, especially if you want to give them skills in other areas besides magic. This character is not fantastic in their area, but he/she is competent, can meaningfully help out in a combat situation, and has a fair amount of breadth. Finally, perhaps more than any other type of character, there's so many places to spend your hard-earned karma ;) DS EDIT: I forgot the negative qualities! :eek: |
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Jan 3 2008, 03:43 AM
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#157
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,883 Joined: 16-December 06 Member No.: 10,386 |
What really pisses me off is the inability to erase your signature as a mystic adept without spending a full power point on Astral Perception. It's a potentially fatal flaw, and it's one of the many reasons why I consider counterspelling and perhaps minor binding and summoning to be the only truly practical reasons to dip your toes into being a Mystic Adept.
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Jan 3 2008, 10:16 PM
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#158
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Awakened Asset Group: Members Posts: 4,464 Joined: 9-April 05 From: AGS, North German League Member No.: 7,309 |
Sponge, thank you! With some modifications for background, and fortunately with 450 BP to spend, I will play a character based on that Mystic Adept.
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Jan 3 2008, 11:03 PM
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#159
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 433 Joined: 8-November 07 Member No.: 14,097 |
:D Glad you like it. By the way, I forgot to list the negative qualities! I edited the previous post. DS |
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Jan 4 2008, 01:30 PM
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#160
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Awakened Asset Group: Members Posts: 4,464 Joined: 9-April 05 From: AGS, North German League Member No.: 7,309 |
The same problem as always. The more I think about it, the more I´m building a mage with bioware. The point spend on astral perception is really annoying, I´d rather spend it installing some ware. Still, thanks for the inspiration Sponge!
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Jan 4 2008, 01:45 PM
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#161
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Prime Runner Group: Banned Posts: 3,732 Joined: 1-September 05 From: Prague, Czech Republic Member No.: 7,665 |
Is someone going to bite the bullet and make a halfway decent Technomancer?
Or are we going to write off the implementation in SR4 as dumb? -Frank |
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Jan 4 2008, 01:50 PM
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#162
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Canon Companion Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 |
Or we could bite the bullet and go whole hog min-max the Technomancer and we could hold it up as an example on how technomancers should be played.
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Jan 4 2008, 03:50 PM
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#163
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Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490 |
...I say write off. Like Otaku, TMs make better NPCs than PCs |
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Jan 4 2008, 03:52 PM
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#164
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,650 Joined: 21-July 07 Member No.: 12,328 |
I double dare you to do that with a technomancer that isn't really a 'drone herder' not because thats bad per say, but then why have a drone rigger ;) Maybe the drone rigger should be a technomancer.
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Jan 4 2008, 04:02 PM
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#165
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,883 Joined: 16-December 06 Member No.: 10,386 |
Yeah, I'm afraid I wrote them off ages ago. Also, the reason you should have a drone rigger who isn't a technomancer is because it's generally a lot more versatile to make a one man army Drone Rigger/Samurai, Rigger/Hacker/Adept or even a one many army Drone Rigger/Hermetic Summoner who provides Astral, Matrix AND meat overwatch via watchers and other low spirits and drones from the comfort of his van. After all, both disciplines benefit from decent logic scores for drain and repairing/customizing your toys and you can easily fit in a Control Rig and Skillwire 3 (for your repair skills) for under an essence point. |
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Jan 4 2008, 04:23 PM
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#166
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 433 Joined: 8-November 07 Member No.: 14,097 |
Well I did a mystic adept, I may as well take a crack at a technomancer :P |
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Jan 4 2008, 04:29 PM
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#167
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,883 Joined: 16-December 06 Member No.: 10,386 |
I personally don't feel that mystic adepts have half the problems technomancers do. It's not even close, even if they can't erase their own sigs.
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Jan 4 2008, 04:44 PM
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#168
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Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490 |
...had a player who made a pretty effective one that was part Social Adept part influence Mage with the Possession tradition.
Since many of the "influence" based spells need only a single net success for the effect to take place, the lower force is not as much an issue, (3 hits sufficient for Mind Probe purposes) particularly when dealing with mundanes. |
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Jan 4 2008, 08:14 PM
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#169
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,579 Joined: 30-May 06 From: SoCal Member No.: 8,626 |
I think the problem comes from only being able to make 1 or 2 effective versions of it and both are so munchy and underperform something awful in other areas. |
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Jan 4 2008, 09:15 PM
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#170
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,883 Joined: 16-December 06 Member No.: 10,386 |
Yeah, you either feel like you're pooping all over what little balance and sanity there is in the rigging rules or that you are utterly worthless to the team with little else in between.
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Jan 5 2008, 10:01 AM
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#171
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Awakened Asset Group: Members Posts: 4,464 Joined: 9-April 05 From: AGS, North German League Member No.: 7,309 |
TMs should not be consumed RAW. I already detest software costs for hackers because everyone else is just copying the hackers programs, paying 4 BP for rating four instead of 0.8 does not improve things. Not something a newbie should try to handle anyway.
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Jan 5 2008, 07:19 PM
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#172
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Grand Master of Run-Fu Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,840 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Tir Tairngire Member No.: 178 |
That is a valid perspective. Who else here thinks that an otaku is too complex for a new player? That's the most valid reason for excluding them from a list of sample archetypes.
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Jan 5 2008, 07:59 PM
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#173
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 7,089 Joined: 4-October 05 Member No.: 7,813 |
considering we're doing the work of character generation, i can't really say they're much more complicated than a regular hacker actually.
once they have to actually try and advance their TM, that gets tricky, but by then they should at least have a basic concept of a fair amount of the game, and they will likely need to upgrade the non-TM parts of the concept first anyways. heck, if you want, i can see what i come up with, but it's likely to be a little min/maxed. still, i'll give it a shot... |
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Jan 5 2008, 11:32 PM
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#174
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 433 Joined: 8-November 07 Member No.: 14,097 |
Well here goes. A limitation I found particularly annoying was the maximum number of Complex Forms equal to Logic x2 at chargen. This character is also very highly focused (more than I prefer), both in attributes (Technomancers need good mental stats for their personas) and the complex forms eat up a lot of the BP, so there's less for skills. On the plus side, I think it can give a regular hacker a definite run for the money, and they don't need much gear to do it - and they can get Sprites on top of that, too. (As an aside, I don't buy the bit about Fault Sprites, and others, being useless - IMHO because of the nature of computers, if the Technomancer can perceive something in the Matrix, he can pass that information on to his sprites so they don't need their own perception checks. It does mean they can't go off on their own attacking stuff, though, the Technomancer - or another persona/agent that the Sprite is listening to - has to be in the same node.) [ Spoiler ] 9-10 dice base on most Matrix tests while in VR (Technomancers get a +2 on Matrix tests in VR), which can be bumped up with Threading if the need arises (with 8 dice for Threading). 9 dice on Tasking tests. His effective persona has a Firewall, System, and Response of 5 (Response 6 in VR), a Signal of 3, and an inherent Biofeedback filter of 4. He also isn't limited in the number of Complex Forms that he can run at once, unlike a Hacker. Cybercombat is at 9 dice, with 13 for defense (16 with a Full Defense action), and 10 dice to resist damage (12 if the +2 bonus applies - it's not very clear whether this counts as a "full-VR Matrix test"), 9 (11?) against Black attacks. I didn't really dip into the whole drone aspect, though he does have the Command Form. And outside of the Matrix, he definitely needs help from friends. 7 dice with a smartlinked pistol in combat isn't going to get very far, but at least he's got 7. On the other hand, he can deal with electronics pretty well, especially with the help of a Sprite or two. High mental stats also make it relatively easy to branch out, as well, if he wants to learn some Biotech or Social skills, for example. All in all, he came out better than I expected, given all the flak on the forums against TMs - so maybe I goofed up somewhere ;) |
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Jan 6 2008, 12:03 AM
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#175
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Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490 |
...Id switch the ratings between Spoof and ECCM. Spoof is just way too important when dealing with IC. As with my former Otaku in 3rd ed. I found that stealth is not only valuable, but also a lifesaver.
It would be helpful to list the attributes for the character's Living Persona as well. The real costly part of a TM is needing the three skill groups. All the subset skills (save for maybe hardware) are important for the character's DPs. It is a tough call whether you want the character to be better at compiling/decompiling than Hacking/EW If more matrix hacking based, I would switch the ratings between the Cracking and Tasking groups. While I realise that this character needs the BPs, Infirm is one of the worst to take as it compromises perception skill (which is also important in the matrix) and you cannot default on any physical skill. (it will also save 4BPs that could give her a rating 2 in the skill). I would look more at maybe something like a 10 pt Allergy and Low Pain Tolerance or other combination of NQs to total 20. SINner is also a good one as well and as much as I feel it can get too "munchy", an Incompetence maybe in some physical based skill instead. I would definitely make sure her pistol is loaded with S&S as with her DP, she does not need to be concerned about staging up the DV with net hits. Smartlink on eyeware and skinlink would be a good purchase. I'd go with a Hammerli even though it has only a 6 round clip as it is already internally Smartlinked, has a GV 1 and uses Heavy Pistol ranges. If you want to fly cheap, take a smartlinked Colt America (300:nuyen:) though she will suffer recoil on her second shot. ..another helpful hint, Make sure the character has a Troll Sammy on the team to hide behind when drek goes down in the meat world. |
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