 Levitate Spell, Using it to Fling objects during combat |
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 Jan 3 2008, 10:19 PM
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#76
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 861 Joined: 27-November 07 Member No.: 14,397  |
Lol. Now we see why he really wanted to keep up a force 12 with 11 hits levitate spell. He was hoping to be able to switch it from the orb to other things and start chucking around cars and such at will. No, the spell is quite non-transferable, just like all other spells. Also, I just though of this: As much as it looks really cool right now, after a few combats it is going to be dented and pitted and look like a flying piece of junk. |
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Jan 3 2008, 10:20 PM
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#77
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,206 Joined: 9-July 06 From: Fresno, CA Member No.: 8,856 |
Must stop EverQuest™ flashbacks... :silly: Um, yer welcome... |
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Jan 3 2008, 10:27 PM
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#78
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 829 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 770 |
well, the steel lynx is the heaviest drone in the base book, and putting it at 50 kg, or 110 lbs seems about right for it's size.
the scoot weighs in at 36kg, or 79 lbs, which seems about right for a future-materials Vespa/Mo-Ped the sport bikes are 80, 84kg - so 176-184 lbs, liftable, but not really carryable for most people (str 8 to carry without a test per pg. 130) while the scorpion is a whopping 136kg or about 300 lbs - maybe a bit light but close enough for guesswork. the spirit comes out to 350kg, or 771 lbs...very light for a car, but then, have you ever seen a Geo or a SmartCar? The rest of the cars work out a bit light too, but I'm assuming that the move away from sheet-metal to lighter composites isn't going away anytime soon, so it's probably not too far off for a "two-hands & flashlight" type quick estimate. |
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Jan 3 2008, 10:39 PM
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#79
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The ShadowComedian Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 14,538 Joined: 3-October 07 From: Hamburg, AGS Member No.: 13,525 |
wait, that means high STR chars CAN just simply go and lift off a bike from the ground and carry it away? O.o
and a good done Troll STR Built with some luck/Cyber/Bio could possible lift small CARS? x.x . . |
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Jan 3 2008, 10:44 PM
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#80
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 861 Joined: 27-November 07 Member No.: 14,397 |
Lol, I can see it now, a troll just walking around with a car held over his head, going to the nearest chop shop. |
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Jan 3 2008, 10:47 PM
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#81
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 829 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 770 |
Well, from my quick-estimate table:
only the scoot and the two sport bikes were carryable by orks or enhanced-strength humans. Magically strong or cybered trolls with 14 strength could carry a scorpion without a test but noone could carry even the lightest car - it'd take strength 35. |
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Jan 3 2008, 11:15 PM
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#82
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The ShadowComedian Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 14,538 Joined: 3-October 07 From: Hamburg, AGS Member No.: 13,525 |
you can LIFT STRx15 Kilo without test . .
you can CARRY STRx10 kilo without test according to SR4 Core Book everything above that needs a test and every success gives you 15 more kilo for lift or 10 kilo more for carry . . with STR of 15 you'd be able to LIFT 225 kilo without test and be able to CARRY 150 kilo without test . . let's say you throw your 15 dice and come up with about 5 to 10 successes that goes up to and above 300 kilo for lift and 200 kilo for carry O.o and then there's still the option of cyber-limbs maxed out for strength and redlining them O.o |
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Jan 3 2008, 11:39 PM
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#83
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 829 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 770 |
Well, yes -
but: A) at 350 kilos for the lightest car, even the troll at his racial augmented maximum strength of 15 is going to need 8 successes to lift over his head for one turn, or 20 successes to carry for a turn. B) one is rather unlikely to get very far before blowing one of those tests...and I wouldn't want to be under (or even near) the cybered troll when he loses his grip. still, it'd make those strongman competitions a lot more interesting. edit: maths |
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Jan 4 2008, 05:38 AM
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#84
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,664 Joined: 21-September 04 From: Arvada, CO Member No.: 6,686 |
Just a FYI. I own a sport motorcycle. Its a 500cc engine (the norm is 600cc for a sport motorcycle). Wet, (that is with oil fuel and all that) its officially listed as 409lbs. (Roughly 185kg).
Taking a Honda GoldWing (one of the biggest cruiser motorcycles around), its official wet weight is, 911 lbs. Nearing half a ton. You don't carry motorcycles around, maybe Mr. Universe could, but in general, it doesn't happen. |
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Jan 4 2008, 05:56 AM
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#85
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,206 Joined: 9-July 06 From: Fresno, CA Member No.: 8,856 |
Well, they are talking about augmented trolls that would make Mr. Universe's lift and carry capacity seem like a bookish school girl.
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Jan 4 2008, 09:52 AM
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#86
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Awakened Asset Group: Members Posts: 4,464 Joined: 9-April 05 From: AGS, North German League Member No.: 7,309 |
For reference, the steel lynx is about the size of a human (see Fields of Fire if you have access to that). 50 kg is way too low IMO, should be closer to the 200 kg you can lift with a threshold of 1 on levitate. Seeing strength 3 chars carrying a Steel Lynx around would feel wrong for me.
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Jan 4 2008, 03:49 PM
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#87
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,925 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 948 |
50 kilos for a steel lynx might not be entirely wrong. It all depends on material. lightweight polymers and ceramics surrounding a lightweight structure of aluminium that houses an electrical fuel cell and the CPU brain. I would say that 50 kilos would be the unladen weight. A machine gun with 200 rounds of ammo would easily add 10-20 kilograms. Then we have sensor loadout that would add even more weight. A fully kitted out steel lynx could be around 100kg. |
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Jan 4 2008, 04:16 PM
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#88
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Target Group: Members Posts: 28 Joined: 2-October 07 Member No.: 13,500 |
That's WAY too light for a motorcycle... Motorcycles (even crotch rockets) weigh a LOT more than 300 pounds... Hell, mine weighs more than twice that, and it's not all that big. Even with futuristic SR4 motorcycles made out of unobtainium I don't seem them weighing that little...
It's trivial for someone of average strength to right a 700 pound motorcycle that's tipped over. It's not like you're lifting 700 pounds when you do it... |
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Jan 4 2008, 04:54 PM
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#89
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 829 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 770 |
Like I said: two hands + flashlight estimate - I was just going for a heavier-than-a-person, less-than-2-tons motorcycle.
Take it as the absolute low-end estimate, with the high end as current weights. Assuming progress is made in polymer and composite materials, that's not unreasonable. |
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Jan 5 2008, 09:43 AM
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#90
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Awakened Asset Group: Members Posts: 4,464 Joined: 9-April 05 From: AGS, North German League Member No.: 7,309 |
Weigth is not a purely negative property for outdoor combat drones, as you don´t want the drone to flip upside down the first occasion it gets. So I do think if armor got lighter they would simply add more. But your POV is valid, they might actually be pretty light, we don´t know.
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Jan 5 2008, 04:20 PM
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#91
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 861 Joined: 27-November 07 Member No.: 14,397 |
I would assume the ones that fly or float are fairly light, but otherwise I think heavy would be the way to go. I mean, if your combat drone barely weighs anything, it is going to have real trouble staying standing when being shot at, and have even more trouble staying upright when dealing with the recoil from its weapons (Linx can hold 3 LMGs). I'm hoping that Arsenal will provide at least some baselines of weight for various thing. |
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Jan 5 2008, 04:50 PM
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#92
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 7,089 Joined: 4-October 05 Member No.: 7,813 |
i think you've misunderstood the rules for weapon mounts. you may have one(1) weapon mount for every three(3) points of body that the drone has. armor doesn't count for this purpose at all. a steel lynx, from memory, has a body of four(4), which when divided by three(3) gets you one(1) with a remainder of one(1). this means that you can have one(1) LMG on a steel lynx, no more. |
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Jan 5 2008, 05:13 PM
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#93
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 861 Joined: 27-November 07 Member No.: 14,397 |
My bad, it does only have a body 4, but it can mount 2, as it comes equiped with 1 as part of it being what it is, then you can mount a second one. So you can in fact mount 2 on them, and the recoil would likely be enough to knock it over if it is trying to fire two LMGs on Full Auto if it weighs a meisly 50 Kg. Of course even firing a single LMG when it weighs only 50Kg is going to be kind of sketchy.
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Jan 5 2008, 06:15 PM
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#94
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 7,089 Joined: 4-October 05 Member No.: 7,813 |
no.
that is how many you can *have*, not how many you can add. the steel lynx already has one. the maximum number it can have is also one. therefore you cannot add anymore. in any case, for largely arbitrary reasons afaict, you can only use one at a time in any case.
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Jan 5 2008, 06:39 PM
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#95
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 861 Joined: 27-November 07 Member No.: 14,397 |
It says that it carries one weapon, not that it has a weapon mount on it. If it ran with the same rules and used up 3 points of body like a weapon mount then the text would simply say 'comes equipped with a weapon mount' instead of 'carries a weapon'. This implies that you are still free to add a mount to the drone. Hmm, I've not read the rigging stuff in a while, forgot that you couldn't arm more then one weapon system at a time, but it does seem very stupid to be unable to have more then one armed. Of course it does say weapon system, not individual weapon, which could be up for grabs as to if a system can consist of only one weapon. (Though I'm more then willing to accept that you can only fire one weapon at a time for game balance reasons, and it isn't the point of the discussion anyway.) The point remains that for a large combat drone, 50Kg seems like too little mass to be able to stand up to the rigours of combat. Of course it really doesn't help that nowhere in the book does it actually say how large a large drone is. Are we talking like a troll is large? Or do we mean large for a drone, which may be rather small compared to people? Honestly I don't think they provided nearly enough info on drones and vehicles in the book (an entire {sarcasim} two pages for 36 items is not nearly enough to do them properly) |
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Jan 5 2008, 08:10 PM
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#96
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 7,089 Joined: 4-October 05 Member No.: 7,813 |
fine, if we're going to split hairs about what the RAW implies, then *technically* the lynx *requires* a weapon mount in order to *use* the weapon, because otherwise it can only *carry* the weapon.
seriously, if you want to just give out extra weapon slots, go ahead. i don't personally see the need. nor do i see the need to restrict to one weapon system active, for that matter. (i do understand that they might have some concerns about people trying to do 5 LMG bursts with 50 rounds in one burst, but that's just as easily resolved by saying "each weapon is considered separately" and adding in a simple rule about splitting dicepools between all guns. i can't say i'm all that worried about some tricked-out rigger splitting 20 dice between 5 targets to get 4 dice per shot, really... |
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Jan 5 2008, 08:16 PM
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#97
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 861 Joined: 27-November 07 Member No.: 14,397 |
I'm not trying to split hairs, I'm just saying that it makes sense that the weapon included with the drone is part of the design, and you would thus be able to put a weapon mount onto it. Like I said, the entire section (of two pages) leaves alot to be desired, including weights, actual sizes, and things as simple as if a lynx can have an additonal weapon. Oh, and if you really do want to split hairs, note that the weapon mount only says that it can hold a weapon, nothing in there about firing it. (Please note this is a joke, I don't want to get into a hair splitting contest) You are right about having to split dice pools I'm sure, but what happens if you have something with 5 white knigts all fire on one target and act as if it is a single weapon firing a 50 round burst? |
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Jan 5 2008, 08:54 PM
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#98
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 573 Joined: 17-September 07 Member No.: 13,319 |
Digressing further from Levitate... new thread, or are we duplicating previous threads on drones? My interpretation is that most vehicles and drones are sold with neither weapons nor mounts installed, and that the Doberman and Lynx are unusual in being standardly sold with one mount pre-installed; that mount takes up all their capacity. Errata establishes that the stock price does not include a weapon installed in that mount. However, a Bulldog stepvan could install five mounts, and presumably could install four extra Pilot devices, so that each gun has a computer to direct its aim, which would enable five separate attacks each with its own DP (you could adapt the hardware from a Smart Firing Platform, with Pilot 3 and Target LMG 3 for DP 6). However, installing the mounts so that all five can bear on the same target is unlikely; I'd borrow from Car Wars, with two sponsons front, one on each side, and a top turret, which might get some overlapping fields of fire. Roll and resolve each attack independently. If you're a true purist, you roll Initiative separately for each Pilot, as you would if the Bulldog had five metahuman gunners each staffing a targeting console. That's quite a gun platform. None of the guns is fired very accurately, but the defender takes Multiple Attacker penalties and sooner or later one of the attacks will get a good roll. You can get the same damage as LMGs, with less range, less recoil penalty and much lower cost, mounting AK-97s. |
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Jan 5 2008, 09:46 PM
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#99
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 7,089 Joined: 4-October 05 Member No.: 7,813 |
in point of fact, it's quite easy to get the guns to be reasonably accurate. the smart firing platform (which, for the record, can be mounted on a drone without any sort of house rules at all, since guns can by default have accessories, nothing changes in that from drone rules, and smart firing platforms are gun accessories) you can easily get pilot 3 + targetting 3 + smartlink + hits on a sensor test (or swap out sensor for pilot if you don't want to actively target).
given you can share data between them, i would think it stands to reason that you could to a teamwork test on all the sensor tests, which means that it shouldn't be too hard to get +3-4 dice from the teamwork test for active targetting. and heck, if you upgrade the platforms to pilot 4, targetting 4 (i don't think you'd need to boost the response, they seem to me like something that would at least be security gear) you can get 10 dice on the test. if you have them all firing wide bursts, that's gonna be hard to dodge against. in any case, like i said, if you treat all guns as separate, there is no 50 round burst. |
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Jan 5 2008, 11:18 PM
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#100
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,416 Joined: 4-March 06 From: Albuquerque Member No.: 8,334 |
I see no reason why we couldn't have multiple drones linked together to fire on a specific point/target. We can do that today with multiple weapons. Give current tech 65 years and I think it'd work even better, and be seriously dangerous.
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