 To build a Green Beret..., No, not the silly hat... |
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 Jan 17 2008, 09:22 PM
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#176
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Running Target  Group: Members Posts: 1,109 Joined: 16-October 03 From: Raleigh, NC Member No.: 5,729  |
Another factor here is training/experience. It's highly unlikely that Delta Airlines would hire you right out of Highschool because you have the potential to be a pilot. The military is appealing because they will take someone with no real training or experience and TRAIN them. Sure, there are some hoops to jump through with many jobs (like only officers being allowed to go to flight school in the Air Force), but in general, if all you have is "potential", the military is a LOT more likely to give you that training than a corporation is.
However, with the awakened, it's completely different. If you test positive for magic potential, tons of companies will be looking to scoop you up, right after graduation...and sometimes even before. It doesn't matter that your GPA was a 2.1, that you barely got out of your remedial classes, or that you never played any sports. They will make the investment in hiring/training you because you have a special something that cannot be trained/taught/or learned through experience. You HAVE TO BE BORN WITH IT. Awakened individuals won't face the same challenges in getting a job that non-awakened people will simply because of their uniqueness. A teenager from a low-income family who has magic potential doesn't have to worry about how he will be able to pay for college, or how he is going to be able to break into what profession he wants to join for the rest of his life. He becomes a golden-boy, and all of a sudden, that training and job security the Army offered him a year ago doesn't seem so appealing. |
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Jan 17 2008, 09:29 PM
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#177
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,109 Joined: 16-October 03 From: Raleigh, NC Member No.: 5,729 |
First off, a "bonus pay scale" and a "base pay scale" are two different things. I agree that there are plenty of bonus pay options out there...pilot bonuses, jump bonuses, tdy bonuses, etc. But at the end of the day, every O-3 with 5 years in makes exactly the same BASE Pay as every other O-3 with 5 years in, regardless of whether he/she is an F-16 pilot or Quartermaster. Sure, the pilot's TOTAL gross pay will probably be a lot higher due to bonuses, but his base pay would be the same. I think what Moon-Hawk was talking about is the Army having an entirely different payscale for Mages. In other words, a scale that pays that O-3 (Captain) Mage with 5 years in 3 or 4 times the BASE salary of that O-3 pilot or that O-3 quartermaster. And setting THAT up would be a nightmare. |
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Jan 17 2008, 09:36 PM
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#178
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Genuine Artificial Intelligence Group: Members Posts: 4,019 Joined: 12-June 03 Member No.: 4,715 |
Well yeah, but I'm not even military, so what do I know? :grinbig: I am a federal employee, and I do not get paid according to my General Schedule ranking, even including locality. |
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Jan 17 2008, 09:38 PM
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#179
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Target Group: Members Posts: 28 Joined: 2-October 07 Member No.: 13,500 |
It might. It probably wouldn't be any worse than the different pay scales for officers if you are/are not prior enlisted, though.
I think they're probably just go the bonus route in any case, though. |
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Jan 17 2008, 09:44 PM
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#180
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,109 Joined: 16-October 03 From: Raleigh, NC Member No.: 5,729 |
Ahhh. I see. So for gubmint personnel, GS rank is pretty much a flexible guideline more than a hard and fast rule. I didn't know that prior to this discussion. That's where the US Military is different. The BASE pay for an E-5 with 5 years of experience is the same across all branches and all specialties. It doesn't matter if you are a Marine Sniper at 29 Palms, a SEAL in Norfolk, an Army Cook at Ft. Drum, NY, or an Air Force intel Sgt at Barksdale AFB, Louisiana. It's all the same. Now, these guys above will all have different bonus pay income, and their gross annual income will probably vary greatly between the highest and lowest, but base pay is still the same. |
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Jan 17 2008, 09:47 PM
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#181
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Target Group: Members Posts: 28 Joined: 2-October 07 Member No.: 13,500 |
True, unless you're, say, an O-3 who came in as an enlisted person then got a commision through one of several commisioning programs, in which case you'd make more than any other O-3 with the same time in service/grade. Edit - GS civilians of the same grade/step used to get the same pay, but they recently (in the last year or so) changed the system so there's some variance in it based on performance factors (and how much your boss likes you, of course). |
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Jan 17 2008, 10:00 PM
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#182
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Genuine Artificial Intelligence Group: Members Posts: 4,019 Joined: 12-June 03 Member No.: 4,715 |
That may be, but it doesn't always have to be performance based. (edit: as in, based on your performance after you're hired) For example, I got my special pay rate because it was decided that even though my position/classification/whatever required a specific GS grade, the special knowledge/skills required meant they had to hire someone who would demand a much, much higher price to do the same job for a corporation, so they got special clearance to raise the pay to a competitive level. (of course, that's competitive as in, a twelve-year old is more competitive of an opponent for Mike Tyson than an eight year old is, but it's temporary and good for my career) So I just thought it might be related to this case. Special skills fetch a higher price in industry, therefore you get paid more by the government. I didn't realize the military couldn't make those same exceptions. |
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Jan 17 2008, 10:03 PM
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#183
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
They can. They just do it with 'bonuses'. |
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Jan 17 2008, 10:13 PM
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#184
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Genuine Artificial Intelligence Group: Members Posts: 4,019 Joined: 12-June 03 Member No.: 4,715 |
Yeah, I got it now. Thanks. |
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Jan 17 2008, 10:13 PM
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#185
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Target Group: Members Posts: 28 Joined: 2-October 07 Member No.: 13,500 |
Or "special pay". |
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Jan 17 2008, 10:16 PM
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#186
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Was trying for funny rather than smug. I must have forgotten to add the ' :D ' at the end of the post. |
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Jan 17 2008, 10:20 PM
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#187
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,174 Joined: 13-May 04 From: UCAS Member No.: 6,327 |
Nah, not true. My agency has always been on a special pay table different from the rest of y'all for many, many years (currently we're still about 7k or so higher). We also get our special performance bonuses on top of that if you're wondering. |
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Jan 17 2008, 11:38 PM
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#188
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Target Group: Members Posts: 28 Joined: 2-October 07 Member No.: 13,500 |
*shrug* The last 2 units I've been in have worked on the basic GS/Step system until recently. The fact that you guys have seen a different system working seems to show that the whole "different levels of pay for the same rank" thing is even less of a pain than I thought. ;)
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Jan 18 2008, 06:09 PM
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#189
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 772 Joined: 12-December 07 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 14,589 |
I was asking if anyone had any experience with any present day special forces other than the US. TheOneRonin has been extraordinarily helpful in letting we civilians know some of the nuts and bolts of how the US Army creates it's Special Forces, but I'd like to know how Israel, UK or other countries go about training theirs to have a comprehensive idea of what a 2070 Green Beret would look like and what his background would be if he was non-UCAS, CFS or CAS. |
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Jan 18 2008, 09:06 PM
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#190
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 385 Joined: 20-August 07 Member No.: 12,766 |
As an aside, how interwoven are we lead to believe that Ares personnel are with the UCAS military? You never know, Ares might loan some finger-wigglers out. Makes sense, if you think about it.. They get preferential treatment for federal contracts, get to keep their eye on the UCAS military, and on top of that, make sure their country doesn't get invaded.
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Jan 19 2008, 08:52 AM
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#191
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Great, I'm a Dragon... Group: Retired Admins Posts: 6,699 Joined: 8-October 03 From: North Germany Member No.: 5,698 |
@Fortinbras: my fault, sorry.
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Jan 19 2008, 12:27 PM
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#192
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Awakened Asset Group: Members Posts: 4,464 Joined: 9-April 05 From: AGS, North German League Member No.: 7,309 |
Ares has consultants for weapon tech, their job is to be hired out. Only for "training purposes", but that may include "live fire excercises" using support discreetly pulled from the Desert Wars Division.
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Mar 24 2008, 10:09 AM
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#193
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Target Group: Members Posts: 85 Joined: 12-June 03 Member No.: 4,720 |
Fun and interesting topic, hope it's not so old that this is considered a necro-post...
One thing people haven't really discussed yet is the potentially changing role that Army SF might have in the 6th world, particularly the area of FID (Foreign Internal Defense, or the whole teaching gig that Army SF have). FID came about as a result of the good 'ole U.S. of A having to help other countries become democracies (witness Vietnam, where this birth came about) and was a natural evolution of the WW2 experience that the O.S.S. and the Jedburghs had with training foreign fighters, especially in the Resistance, against the Axis forces. In the 6th world, how important is it for the CAS / UCAS to flex their military muscles abroad? Given the state of the global politics, it seems that the CAS and UCAS would be a bit more isolationist with regards to extending their military - do they still have bases in other countries? I don't get the impression that this is the case. Given the the "American Empire" is not the same Democracy-pushing machine it once was - and in fact has so fractured it could hardly be considered an empire - I would think that force allocation outlooks and strategies would be *much* different, and this would spread across the entire military armed forces. Focus would more be spent on ensuring that borders are not breached, rapid deployment to trouble spots within their borders, and similar strategic and tactical considerations. Hell, the military is now effectively divided in half, so we might see some interesting changes there as well. One of the things I'm looking at for my own campaign is the effective merging of all SoF (regardless of military branch) into one national "unit", as it were. We've already seen the beneficial effects of having SoF under one umbrella with the creation of the SoF umbrella organization; in a world where your military has just taken a gigantic personnel hit and your mission has changed to a large degree, does the vast number of special units currently in the U.S. military still warrant itself, or will many units be folded into a gigantic parent unit that helps them become more efficient at their job? You might see something like the dissolution of the SF, SEALs, etc. into one unit of a single name, with a unified selection process. It seems that for countries like CAS and the UCAS, the big focuses would be on Unconventional Warfare (What happens if those dirty elves start taking over portions of our country?) and Direct Action (oh crap those dirty elves are funding an internal terrorist group - time to take it out!). Skillsets would thusly change in focus as well. Just though I'd throw out a few nuyen to the discussion - it's been an interesting read! |
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