 Riggers!, What are the basics one needs??? |
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 Feb 18 2008, 11:33 PM
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#76
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Manus Celer Dei  Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802  |
If you're willing to post the stats, I'd be interested to see the final product.
~J |
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Feb 19 2008, 01:46 AM
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#77
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 718 Joined: 10-September 05 From: Montevideo, in the elusive shadows of Latin America Member No.: 7,727 |
...and especially which drones you took
Cheers Max |
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Feb 19 2008, 04:57 AM
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#78
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Grand Master of Run-Fu Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,840 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Tir Tairngire Member No.: 178 |
A low-level Cranial Remote Deck is worth considering, simply for the Server system rules. By making it a supersubscriber, you get all the benefits of the CRD with all the nifty cheap accessories of the big remote control deck.
Something that some GM's may let you get away with is supersubscribing yourself to more than one RCD, which is a *huge* advantage. |
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Feb 19 2008, 01:38 PM
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#79
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Grand Nagus Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,114 Joined: 27-July 04 From: Almost Heaven Member No.: 6,518 |
QUOTE (Kagetenshi @ Feb 18 2008, 03:33 PM)  If you're willing to post the stats, I'd be interested to see the final product. ~J QUOTE (MaxHunter @ Feb 18 2008, 05:46 PM) ...and especially which drones you took Cheers Max Unfortunately I didnt finish yet... got side tracked by beer and the Red Wings/Avalanche game. Have to finish today though, so I would be happy to have that posted for you by tomorrow or Thursday. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) |
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Feb 19 2008, 06:14 PM
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#80
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Target Group: Members Posts: 71 Joined: 29-July 06 From: Orlando, FL Member No.: 8,981 |
QUOTE (Bastard @ Jan 18 2008, 10:25 PM) Edited while you were typing Fortune... What about a remote control deck? Not sure if thats the proper name... its been a long time since we have made a rigger. By Remote Control Deck do you mean Comlink? if not can you link me the book and page#? |
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Feb 19 2008, 06:16 PM
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#81
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
this is a 3rd edition discussion, Exodus. commlinks are 4th ed.
i've always thought the toughest part about being a rigger is the upkeep. my drone rigger, Tovera, has to pay almost 16K a month just to keep her drones running. granted, she's got several 'custom' drones, and all her drones have mods, but still. i ended up having her run an automated security business on the side to help alleviate costs. |
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Feb 19 2008, 06:49 PM
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#82
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Target Group: Members Posts: 71 Joined: 29-July 06 From: Orlando, FL Member No.: 8,981 |
QUOTE (mfb @ Feb 19 2008, 01:16 PM) this is a 3rd edition discussion, Exodus. commlinks are 4th ed. No Wonder why I was compfused! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) My mistake (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif) |
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Feb 19 2008, 08:29 PM
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#83
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Grand Nagus Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,114 Joined: 27-July 04 From: Almost Heaven Member No.: 6,518 |
My player decided to go with an external deck to save essence that would have accrued from all the headware and cyberlimb. What is the purpose of the rating of the remote deck (SR3, pg 136-138, 306)? Its flux rating is an automatic 2, right? I have to purchase a signal booster (SR3, pg 290) to boost the flux rating or ECM (don't see that listed... is that the RCD rating?).
I have searched both SR3 and R3 and can't find what the purpose is of the remote deck rating (let alone the CRD). I must have missed it, or maybe it's somewhere else, or most likely, I am just highly 'compfused', as Exodus would say. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/spin.gif) |
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Feb 19 2008, 08:46 PM
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#84
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
The number of drones you can have subscribed is equal to twice your RCD's rating, and the number you can have affiliated (actively controlled, available to jump into or to issue orders to) is equal to your RCD's rating. Additionally, it sets a TN for certain electronic warfare attacks. Affiliating or disaffiliating a drone is a Simple action, so it's roughly a Complex action to swap out for a new drone from your subscriber list (a little better than that, since you can split the actions across passes or turns).
In general the higher the better; my advice is to pick up a 6 at chargen and don't worry about upgrading until you've either got a bunch of spare cash or you get a big drone stable. Edit: pagerefs would be nice. The bit about subscriptions is p156, SR3. EW stuff is R3 p37. ~J |
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Feb 19 2008, 10:54 PM
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#85
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Grand Nagus Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,114 Joined: 27-July 04 From: Almost Heaven Member No.: 6,518 |
Thank you sir! I will get to finishing up... or at least trying.
EDIT: Where does ECM come into play? =================== EDIT: HERE HE IS... Still got some touching up to do. This is not my character, the player wanted to be more versatile and have all these (and more) Build/Repair skills. Sometimes players get so upset and don't understand that shadowrunners can't be an expert at EVERYTHING. Got 60 grand left for contacts and anything we missed. I encrypted all the drones and the van at level 5 to match the Remote Decks rating. Also have to figure the Essence Index Rating and my have to drop the Synaptic Accelerator. How do I add a video camera to all the drones that streams back to the rigger, who has 90 Mp of memory (is that enough?, I read 1 Mp equals 60 stills). Without further ado.... NAME: STREET NAMES: ARCHETYPE: Rigger/Mechanic AGE, DOB: RACE: Human MONEY: 61,005 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) (chargen money) GOOD KARMA TOTAL KARMA EARNED -CHARACTER DESCRIPTION- [ Spoiler ] -ATTRIBUTES AND STATS- [ Spoiler ] -SKILLS- [ Spoiler ] -CYBERWARE/BIOWARE- [ Spoiler ] -EDGES AND FLAWS- [ Spoiler ] -LIFESTYLES- [ Spoiler ] -EQUIPMENT AND GEAR- [ Spoiler ] -VEHICLES- [ Spoiler ] |
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Feb 20 2008, 04:33 AM
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#86
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Just to warn you, I'm continuing to say "you" when I mean "your player", since I can't seem to remember to not do it that way.
QUOTE (Bastard @ Feb 19 2008, 05:54 PM) EDIT: Where does ECM come into play? It comes in in a few places. One big one is that active ECM has a chance to raise the TN to gain a sensor lock on the ECMing vehicle (SR3 p138). Sensor locks are used primarily for Sensor-Enhanced Gunnery (you can go to Manual Gunnery to avoid the ECM issues), but SEG rocks the Casbah, and if metahuman Signatures weren't so high would rock the rest of Algiers. SEG is also what drones not being actively piloted by a jumped-in Rigger are required to use. You can also interfere with transmitting devices, the rules for which they very curiously put on SR3 p291 (under Jammer). There are more advanced jamming rules in Rigger 3, on pages 35 and 85. QUOTE (Bastard) =================== EDIT: HERE HE IS... Still got some touching up to do. This is not my character, the player wanted to be more versatile and have all these (and more) Build/Repair skills. Sometimes players get so upset and don't understand that shadowrunners can't be an expert at EVERYTHING. Oh my. Well, my comments are below, your (or his) mileage may vary. QUOTE Got 60 grand left for contacts and anything we missed. I encrypted all the drones and the van at level 5 to match the Remote Decks rating. Also have to figure the Essence Index Rating and my have to drop the Synaptic Accelerator. As I'll get to, I'd advise this anyway. It doesn't seem to me to make much sense to sacrifice your chance at being the God in the machine just to get a few more initiative passes in meatspace. QUOTE How do I add a video camera to all the drones that streams back to the rigger Have the Drone have at least one point of Sensor rating (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) (if you read the customization section carefully, it's impossible to have a Drone without that). That's pretty much what a drone does all the time. SR3 p135 has the rules for precisely what is included in any given level of Sensors. Actually, now that I look at it it also has the confirmation that audio and video can be transmitted. Same page, next section down. QUOTE , who has 90 Mp of memory (is that enough?, I read 1 Mp equals 60 stills). 60 stills or 0.5 minutes of audio+video or 1 minute of audio or video. Whether some combination of up to 45 minutes of video+audio, 90 minutes of audio or video, or 5400 pictures is enough is a decision only your Rigger can make. QUOTE -ATTRIBUTES AND STATS- [ Spoiler ] Aaaagh! Where did the points go? A little attributes-light for a Rigger, and by "a little" I mean "quite". Even more so than your typical character, taking Intelligence less than 6 is a risky proposition. This may not be a huge problem, particularly depending on the kind of game, but before considering adding more points to Attributes to begin with I'd suggest dropping Body down to 3 or 2 and putting the points into Intelligence, Willpower, or Quickness. Before skimping on Willpower, consider that dump shock for vehicles you're directly jacked into is Physical damage, not Stun. Another thing to consider if you've got non-maxed Willpower after all point readjustment is taking two levels of Sensitive Neural Structure; it's a legitimate flaw for a Rigger, and it lets you buy two more levels of Willpower "free", which at least let you get the other benefits (like Combat Pool, or spell resistance). QUOTE -SKILLS- [ Spoiler ] -CYBERWARE/BIOWARE- [ Spoiler ] Oh, so that's where they went. IMO, there should be some serious consolidation of skills here. Some thoughts: Because of the way post-chargen advancement works, it's generally advisable to have a really, really good reason to take a skill at anything but 6 or 0. This goes double for Riggers, who have the advantage of very favourable defaulting rules (can default to Reaction at +2 instead of +4) and the dual-pool advantage in combat (even if Control Pool does get drained faster than Combat Pool for non-Riggers). The first step is to drop B/R Combustion Engine, which doesn't actually exist (rather I should say, it isn't a specifically-listed canon skill, and it is never required by the vehicle repair rules. It's below the level of detail Shadowrun uses, though "by power plant type" might be a good category for specializations if you're looking to make the current by-specific-vehicle categories less restrictive). That frees up five points, four of which should really probably go into Attributes, but we'll leave that aside for now. Next, unless it's a big thing for the character (either in background or for first-priority acquisition), and it's really going to get used a lot (lots of amphibious operations?), I recommend dropping Hovercraft. Most of the hovercrafts are quite expensive, and the inexpensive ones need a lot of (expensive) modification to turn into a proper Runnermobile. I recommend dropping the associated B/R at the same time. That should free up enough points to bring some core skills up to 6 (like Gunnery!). Might also recommend dropping Motorcycle and the associated B/R, since motorcycles sacrifice most of the features that make Rigging so wonderful, but I know a lot of players like to have it for reasons I can't really comprehend. Regarding Pistols, unless you're very, very certain you're never going to advance that skill again, I recommend not specializing. The way it is now you can buy exactly one more level of the specialization before you have to upgrade the base skill. The only chargen specialization I really recommend is 2 -> 1/3 for some utility skill that your character will never use heavily but is useful to have even at low levels (Biotech/First Aid often gets this treatment, in my experience). Knowledge skills are pretty much a free-for-all, but if the character will have any familiarity with the area I'd recommend trying to fit in an Area (Roads and Highways) knowledge skill or something like that. QUOTE -LIFESTYLES- [ Spoiler ] High is a good choice. Not only does it alleviate some maintenance costs, it's also comfy. QUOTE -EQUIPMENT AND GEAR- [ Spoiler ] -VEHICLES- [ Spoiler ] The first note is that the RCD has a Signal Amplifier 8, which is a no-no at chargen (Ratings are restricted to 6). Drone loadout is pretty decent (I'm honored (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) ), but it's a little light on long-range surveillance capability and heavy firepower (the flamethrowers cut right through a lot of personal armor, but even lightly-armored vehicles will bounce it and it can't load AP/AV rounds); I'd suggest picking up one or more Strato-9s, or at least a Schattenauge. On the topic of APDS, though, that's Avail 14, so a no-go at chargen. That and a pile of edges/flaws should do you. So, how much have I managed to mangle the concept in a quest for optimization? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) ~J |
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Feb 20 2008, 05:46 AM
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#87
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Decker on the Threshold Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,922 Joined: 14-March 04 Member No.: 6,156 |
I'm a little leery of headware memory. For 60Mps of headware you can instead get a chipjack and slot an empty 100-1000Mp optical memory chip (or a knowsoft/linguisoft if you need it; chipjacks come with a knowsoft link included).
Definitely second Kagetenshi's notion of swapping some vehicle skills over into attributes. Attributes are especially important for a rigger (particularly anything affecting Reaction), and are murder to upgrade post-chargen; skills not so much. I'm a little surprised at the lack of microscopic vision on a rigger with artificial eyes. I'd look at that before even vision mag honestly; all your distance stuff is going to be done through drone sensors, not with your meatbod. Enhanced Articulation has been called enhanced artwinkulation for so long there has to be a good reason for it. Might be worth a look. I didn't notice it above, but are you allowing beta and delta 'ware at chargen? Cultured bioware (the cerebral booster and synaptic accelerator) is also supposed to be disallowed, but allowing it in tends to be a common houserule. |
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Feb 20 2008, 06:18 AM
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#88
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
QUOTE (Eyeless Blond @ Feb 20 2008, 04:46 PM) Cultured bioware (the cerebral booster and synaptic accelerator) is also supposed to be disallowed, but allowing it in tends to be a common houserule. That's a common misconception. Bioware that is typically only available as cultured is allowed. It is the cultured versions of normal Bioware that is disallowed at chargen. |
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Feb 20 2008, 06:41 AM
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#89
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Grand Nagus Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,114 Joined: 27-July 04 From: Almost Heaven Member No.: 6,518 |
Its a high level campaign, so I allowed a lot of no-nos as you say. APDS ammo, beta and delta ware, which isnt always convenient and/or good investments at chargen. I thought I had answered this when people bitched about the Thunderbolt. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif) If you add up the numbers, they started with 135 BP and few restrictions.
Yes, I tried to argue him out of all the B/R and told him to try and focus on one thing to be great at, but he could not. He wanted to be a jack-of-all-trades, but great at everything. So... after many times explaining that a joat is someone who is good at many things but a master of none and not getting through, I said fuck it. Have your god dammed hovercraft skill. ... Do you want to buy a hovercraft instead of a van? -Nope. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif) Anyways, I do encourage them to take odd skills that they think their character would have. They got 15-25 starting karma award for their character backgrounds, 35 questions and an in character background. So I am actually glad he kept the hovercraft. You should have seen the list before! I will speak to him later about losing all the vehicle skills and putting those into some more attributes and such. As for the no heavy artillery with the drones. This team tends to shy away from combat. We had four sessions (prior to the rigger joining) that was all good role playing with them scouting and planning a run. I think the plan is to build up the guns later, I guess, and let the gun bunnies go nuts for now. As for the microscopic vision, good thinking. I am a tard, thats why I got the magnification. Also, good idea for the chipjack. We will look into that. As for the combustion engine skill, he got that cause it has many more uses. Lawn mowers, boats, weed wackers, ect. He did make a good point, that it covers a lot of ground. If my player is ever on a speed boat, he doesnt need boat B/R to fix it, if the engine is broke, and he can get free cookies from the old lady next door by fixing her lawn mower. So, I know that he is not a perfect rigger, but thats not what the player wants. Now with a few bucks from this next two or three missions he goes on he will be able to buy some pretty sweet drones with MGL-12s... and flamethrowers! That is if he can afford his mortgage. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/spin.gif) |
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Feb 20 2008, 05:31 PM
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#90
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Grand Nagus Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,114 Joined: 27-July 04 From: Almost Heaven Member No.: 6,518 |
Okay, we kept the helicopter and car skill, cause the character had those skills before becoming a rigger. That was in the character background that he provided me. I switched up a few things from the suggestions above. After loosing the synaptic accel we got over 200 grand left to waste.
We were looking at getting a miniblimp or something that could provide long range surveillance and air support. For support he wanted to add a couple MGLs for smoke and cover. Any Suggestions? Can I just put them on Kage's? It should be able to take two pintle mounts for MGL-12s. Left over money is going to go for a small team aerial transport and contacts... and buying me lunch since I have put so much time into his character. NAME: STREET NAMES: Jeb ARCHETYPE: Rigger/Mechanic AGE, DOB: RACE: Human MONEY: 211,005 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) (chargen money) GOOD KARMA TOTAL KARMA EARNED -CHARACTER DESCRIPTION- [ Spoiler ] -ATTRIBUTES AND STATS- [ Spoiler ] -SKILLS- [ Spoiler ] -CYBERWARE/BIOWARE- [ Spoiler ] -EDGES AND FLAWS- [ Spoiler ] -LIFESTYLES- [ Spoiler ] -EQUIPMENT AND GEAR- [ Spoiler ] -VEHICLES- [ Spoiler ]
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Feb 20 2008, 05:35 PM
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#91
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Decker on the Threshold Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,922 Joined: 14-March 04 Member No.: 6,156 |
QUOTE (Fortune @ Feb 19 2008, 10:18 PM) That's a common misconception. Bioware that is typically only available as cultured is allowed. It is the cultured versions of normal Bioware that is disallowed at chargen. Bah. I tend to think of the FAQ rule changes as houserule suggestions; otherwise all of the silly stuff in there like their ruling on Invisibility extending LOS would be too annoying to bother with. |
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Feb 20 2008, 09:11 PM
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#92
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
QUOTE (Eyeless Blond @ Feb 21 2008, 04:35 AM) Bah. I tend to think of the FAQ rule changes as houserule suggestions; otherwise all of the silly stuff in there like their ruling on Invisibility extending LOS would be too annoying to bother with. Not as much a 'rule change' as a clarification. It was always supposed to work that way. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) |
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Feb 20 2008, 09:37 PM
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#93
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
That's demonstrably false, though.
~J |
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Feb 20 2008, 09:40 PM
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#94
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
In what way?
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Feb 20 2008, 11:43 PM
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#95
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Take the called shot FAQ, which explicitly contradicts the utterly unambiguous text. Likewise the entry on bioware, which even drags in a justification which is never used anywhere else (vehicles require an Avail 14 Facility to build, but you can still buy cars at chargen). Also the entry on drone sensors and Invisibility, despite the fact that Signature is well-established and Invisibility (either variety) does not anywhere in the text say or suggest that it changes it.
~J |
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Feb 21 2008, 12:00 AM
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#96
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Note that I was not referring to the entirety of the FAQ in general, but to that one particular rules clarification. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
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Feb 21 2008, 12:46 AM
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#97
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
But that's not correct. What the FAQ says is that, "if you want an official call", all Cultured bioware (including cultured-only 'ware) is forbidden at chargen because it takes a beta clinic to implant. That's the bit I covered above with my reminder that vehicles take non-chargen-available facilities to create as well, but they're still buyable.
~J |
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Feb 21 2008, 03:01 AM
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#98
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Decker on the Threshold Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,922 Joined: 14-March 04 Member No.: 6,156 |
Or, even more famously:
QUOTE (hyzmarca @ Jun 4 2006, 02:17 PM) The FAQ lets you kill a main battle tank with a derringer firing standard ammo. Think about that for a second. The FAQ lets you kill a main battle tank with a derringer firing standard ammo. This, friends, is why we ignore the parts of the FAQ we don't like. It isn't canon untill its canonized. The FAQ is not yet available in book form. But I think Fortune was talking about my invisibility issue. I'm actually kinda surprised Fortune doesn't remember the various magical time-traveling photons discussions; we've been having them for years, especially when SR4 came out and actually made the serious error of saying that the illusion spell Invisibility actually warped light, suddenly transforming it into a manipulation spell (and adding even more problems). |
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Feb 21 2008, 06:12 AM
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#99
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
QUOTE (Eyeless Blond @ Feb 21 2008, 02:01 PM) I'm actually kinda surprised Fortune doesn't remember the various magical time-traveling photons discussions ... Oh, I remember. I was just choosing to spare everyone else the pain ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) |
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