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> To Build Jason Bourne..., Defining the Bourne Identity
TheOneRonin
post Jan 31 2008, 03:39 PM
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Coming on the heels of the successful "To Build a Green Beret..." thread, I figured I post another gaming exercise for the Dumpshock community.

If you haven't read the Ludlum books, or seen the Bourne movies (you need to watch the first one), you can probably skip this thread.

However, if you have had exposure to the "Bourne-verse", welcome to "Build-a-Bourne".

Let me define what I'm looking for. I'd like to see a representation of the skills, training, and abilities that are portrayed by "Jason Bourne" in the movies. The books change around a quite a few things (like Bourne's previous AO, language skills, background, etc), but for the most part, the movies stay true to his skills. How would such a character look in 2070 Shadowrun? Let's see what the Dumpshock community thinks.


Like I said in the last thread, something else that would be neat, but not 100% required, is a short blurb stating your motivation behind the skills/attributes/ware you picked. It would really help me get some insight into your methods.


I'd like the characters to be built as close to RAW as possible, with the following considerations:

-All SR4 books out there are allowed as resources.

-Try to properly reflect the skills we see on screen/in writing, as well as other skills we may not have seen/read but that he would almost HAVE to have to do what he does.

-Character should be capable blending in and practically disappearing in a crowd. He should also be able to move around relatively unhindered, and without likely drawing too much a attention. A wired troll that can't pass through basic airport security would not make a very good Bourne.

-No build point limit. Spend as many points as you think would make sense for this type of character.

-Money is a non-issue. Spend as much nuyen as you think the UCAS CIA would spend.

-Availability rating is unlimited.

-Skill Groups capped at 6. Individual Skills capped at 6 (or 7 with Aptitude).

-No specializing within skill groups. Since there is no BP cap, there isn't any reason to rank up a group and then break it so you can add specializations.

-Remember, you aren't trying to make a character with 9s in all attributes and all skill groups at 6. Try to have a realistic approach to character gen.

-Being awakened IS a possibility. If you think you can make a better Bourne with an awakened character, then do it! However, keep in my that you have to be able to blend and not draw attention to yourself.



I think that covers everything. And I will be asking questions...not to be hostile, but to find out more about what made you build your character the way you do. Also, I'm open to any questions/clarifications you may have/need.

BTW, Wikipedia is a good source of info on the Bourne movies/novels if you need a little help.

This post has been edited by Redjack: Feb 2 2008, 08:58 PM
Reason for edit: Add sr4 icon
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TheOneRonin
post Jan 31 2008, 03:43 PM
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Oh, and there is no need to give him amnesia. :-)

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Lionhearted
post Jan 31 2008, 04:00 PM
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QUOTE (TheOneRonin)
Oh, and there is no need to give him amnesia. :-)

why not? Convert the quality from 3ed and he gets extra BP.. oh right, no limit :P
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Synner667
post Jan 31 2008, 09:48 PM
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Interesting..

I do think there's 4 different JBs, tho :-

JB from the books
JB with amnesia
JB from the film
JB as imagined in SR

The JB is not the same as the JB in the film, who is not the JB with amnesia [must be weird understanding a language, or knowing about guns, but not know why].


As for the SR JB, that's just conjecture and building a generic superspy, since he doesn't have Cyberware or magic - so we'd be adding what we think he would/should have.


Just my thruppence...
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kanislatrans
post Feb 1 2008, 02:47 AM
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I have considered the Jason Bourne concept as a PC but never got around to put him together.
However, if I were to build the movie JB then I forsee this in the build:

skill
acting (0)

:D :D :D
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Critias
post Feb 1 2008, 06:24 AM
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Starting point: lots of Melee Combat, Stealth, Influence, and Athletics skill groups (with Firearms group, but not seemingly as ridiculously high).

Everything else is gravy. ;)
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Shrike30
post Feb 1 2008, 08:04 AM
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Perception. Lots of it. He may not have known what was going on, but a lot of his surviving depended on his noticing details.
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toturi
post Feb 1 2008, 08:27 AM
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I was about to suggest the same but I realised with the limits of Skill Groups at the same level as individual skills, he could just do with a high Stealth Group.
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Critias
post Feb 1 2008, 08:44 AM
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Oh, crap, and Driving, too. I don't remember if that has a skill group or not, though (or if it'd be worth it, it's not like there's documented scenes of him going nuts on a motorcycle or quad or something). Whatever plain old "CAR" falls under in SR4.
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Earlydawn
post Feb 1 2008, 08:44 AM
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Obviously high unarmed skill, maybe even a disarming specialty, if anything.

Handguns, obv, and I think we can safely assume he'd be trained in long guns and automatics as well. We'd also want to look at good figures in terms of both shadowing and infiltration (defenitely with a "crowd" specialization), and at least 1 in disguise. He'd probably also be a 2 or 3 in Athletics, and at least above par with computer skill / Matrix. Slightly elevated skill in cars.

Stat-wise, he had a military background, so physical stats would be slightly elevated, and he's obviously both a very clever individual (high intuition?) and very strong-willed to make it through Treadstone.

He'd speak multiple languages, although to make it Shadowrunny you might want to just give him a chipjack and some high-class linguasofts. A couple knowledge skills that come to mind: "National Security (Surveillance)", "Covert Protocol (Deniable Assets)", "India (Goa)", "UCAS CIA Operations (Project Treadstone)".

I can't think of any real specific positive traits to give him, although I think you'd probably consider him ambidextrous based on that wacky fast fighting style.

While you said negative traits aren't necessary, I think it would still be really cool to give him a GMed 4th edition version of amnesia, or if you want to be really cool about it, give him that old ASIST-based brainwashing from Cannon Companion. Then you have all kinds of cool, in-story runs to try and get deprogrammed, figure out who did
it, ect ect.

Equipment-wise, assuming you want to go with "On the Run Bourne", he'd have all generic equipment. Currency would be certified credsticks, along with a good collection of two to four good quality fake SINs. Nothing bigger then a handgun, weapon-wise, and I'd stay away from all the ceramic stealthgun crap - the movies play him off to be far more willing to ditch a gun and "acquire" one later then risk it.

The only really radical thing I might recomend might be false front from Augmentation. In our world, there are techniques you could use to get past airport security, but I seriously doubt that he'd be able to hop flights and not get facematched somewhere, particularly when you consider that he's an person of incredible interest, and in 2070, cameras are everywhere! (Particularly in the AAA security sectors!)

Just my suggestions. :)
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Critias
post Feb 1 2008, 08:48 AM
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QUOTE (Earlydawn)
I can't think of any real specific positive traits to give him, although I think you'd probably consider him ambidextrous based on that wacky fast fighting style.

Kali's better represented by just the Close Combat (or Melee Combat, or whatever it's called) skill group being very high. Edged Weapons, Clubs, and Unarmed? It's pretty much what we do. I mean, those three skills are pretty much an FMArtist's resume.

Ambidexterity is cool (and almost all our stuff does incorporate both hands), but IIRC the Edge just really doesn't do very much in SR4, so I'm not sure how necessary it is.

Does SR4 still have "Bland" or anything similar as a positive trait? Not so much to represent that Bourne is the sort of face you forget (I mean, he's protrayed by a Hollywood leading man, after all), but rather than he's trained to blend into crowds, hunch his shoulders a bit, has boring/plain overall features in theory, unremarkable haircut, yadda yadda yadda.
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Fortune
post Feb 1 2008, 08:56 AM
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QUOTE (Critias)
Whatever plain old "CAR" falls under in SR4.

Same skill as a quad or bike ... Pilot Ground Vehicles. ;) :D
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bluedragon7
post Feb 1 2008, 10:18 AM
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I did my first Jason-Bourne-like Character in SR 2 after seeing the old Movie. My take after the first new movie for SR3 had been a KiMage with Skillwires called Talent, because he was talented in virtually everything.

After recently seeing Bourne Ultimatum i tried it with SR4

High Edge
Latent Awakening (for later Astral chamäleon, Adept or KiMage, a nice and fitting Mentor spirit)
Lots of Geneware (no fingerprints ect)
Blandness
Skillwires
Lots of bioware
Everything in highest grade affordable (less likely to be detected)
Lots of faked SINs
Lots of Karma for initiation (Masking, Adept centering Infusion) and to learn those skills that are not available as skillsoft (centering ect)

All in all if i compare the SR4 version to the SR3 converted to SR4 i need lots more Karma but somewhat less money
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TheOneRonin
post Feb 1 2008, 02:19 PM
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Whew...for a while yesterday I didn't think anyone was going to bother with this thread. Glad to see I was wrong. 8-)

Okay, let's start:

QUOTE (Synner)

4 different Bournes... (paraphrase)


Right. Well, what I was looking for is a blend of Bourne from the films and Bourne if he would exist in Shadowrun. Specifically, I wanted to drop the amnesia part. I'm more worried about the character background and training than the amnesia plot device.

Also, we can go ahead and assume "our" Bourne is still working for Treadstone (or the 2070s version of it) and isn't being hunted.

As for the skillsets mentioned, yeah, I agree. In the films, we see him drive evasively like pro, whip ass (unarmed+knife+improvised weapons) like Dan Inosanto, shoot pretty damn well (at least a 4 in relevant skills, maybe better), and display a high degree of stealth/athletics skill. The one thing I'm not in TOTAL agreement with is the Influence group. I can see him having a general etiquette to help him blend in, but you never really see him being overtly social, nor do I think high levels of con, negotiation, or leadership. His etiquette should be above average, but the rest can be 1 or zero. Bourne is not Bond.

Concerning languages, the Bourne in the novels spoke French and some East Asian dialects, but the Film Bourne can be seen speaking French, Russian, German, Dutch, Italian, and Spanish. Chipped languages are a viable consideration, but I figure it's pretty easy for a native speaker to tell a chipped speaker from one who has learned the language normally. To me, that would make a case for him being taught those languages, rather than chipping them.

In terms of his fighting style, yeah, the choreography was 100% Kali. And Kali/Escrima/Arnis is probably exactly the style you want to train an Assassin in. Like Critias said, we train in Unarmed, Knife(single, pair, mixed), Cane (single, pair, mixed), and long blades. Pretty much the close combat group covers all of that. And a specialty in disarming probably isn't a bad idea. And I wouldn't bother with ambidexterity. It's a silly concept when paired with hand-to-hand combat. I've never seen a real fighting style (unarmed or otherwise) that didn't teach you to use both hands in some capacity. And you don't have to be naturally ambidextrous to use two rattan sticks to beat someone's ass.

And yes, Blandness did make it's way into SR4. It's only a -2 DP penalty for others trying to shadow/socially locate you, but it's better than nothing. I agree he would probably have that quality as well.

High Edge is probably spot on for Bourne as well.


As a side note, do the Martial Arts rules in Arsenal have any decent mechanics for styles specializing in take-downs and disarms?




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nezumi
post Feb 1 2008, 02:23 PM
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Bah, I had one of my characters actually make this for 3rd edition. I was amazed at how well (s)he did too. But I doubt the character would convert. Give me a poke if you still want to see it.
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TheOneRonin
post Feb 1 2008, 02:27 PM
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QUOTE (nezumi)
Bah, I had one of my characters actually make this for 3rd edition. I was amazed at how well (s)he did too. But I doubt the character would convert. Give me a poke if you still want to see it.

<poke>

;-)
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Grinder
post Feb 1 2008, 02:59 PM
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*pokes too*

:D
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eidolon
post Feb 1 2008, 03:08 PM
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Ooh I'd effin' love to give this one a shot. I own all three movies and I'm about an eighth of the way into The Bourne Supremacy (the book). I may try to sqeeze in some time for this over the weekend.

One thing that always kills me in these exercises is that there's usually just no way to represent the character's talents in the amount of points given. I remember so many pathetic attempts at making Bond "legally" in SR3. Since you're removing the limit though... :D
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Cthulhudreams
post Feb 1 2008, 03:24 PM
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Some obsrevations: Linguasofts are stated as 'Allowing the user to speak a foreign language as fluently as her native language' which implies a very high degree of proficiency, and virtual impossibility to spot the difference.

Knowsofts mean you really don't have to teach the guy anything. You can have all the knowledge 'ready to go' in a CIA databank and just feed rating 5 knowsofts, linguasofts and activesofts across as required. And because of this feature, every treadstone candidate is going to be packing rating 4 skillwires and a datajack.

Also, due to the amount of cyberware scanners out there, they are going to have a minimum of cyberware (aforementioned skillwires, datajack and probably eyes and ears) and what they do have will be standard grade. Turning up with deltaware at a security checkpoint means you can probably get through undetected, but if you do get noticed, everyone is going to have questions.

However having cyberears is about as common as being red haired, ie very, so no-one is going to care if you have standard grade gear.

But his bioware will be deltagrade so mages don't spot it when assensing you. They'd need too many hits.

So I reckon bourne is going to look like an amped up bio sammie (muscle toner 4, chemical glands, synaptic booster 3, orthoskin 3, etc, etc, etc), mentally reconditioned from prime sinless recruits who has skillsofts so he can pull whatever he needs out of his ass, and a few core skills at very high ratings indeed (athletics 6, perception 6, maybe a guns skill (almost certainly automatics), and very possibly the stealth skill group, but not much else.)

Say something like this
[ Spoiler ]


That throws 20+ dice at everything he does in the movies (never read the books as ludlum causes me heartburn) is a l33+ hacker, speaks every language on earth and rolls 11 dice on any knowledge skill, and 9+ dice on every active skill. I have spent an infinitely large sum of money though, but I rationalize it as the CIA just downloading whatever he needs. Think the matrix.
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TheOneRonin
post Feb 1 2008, 03:26 PM
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QUOTE (eidolon)
Ooh I'd effin' love to give this one a shot. I own all three movies and I'm about an eighth of the way into The Bourne Supremacy (the book). I may try to sqeeze in some time for this over the weekend.

One thing that always kills me in these exercises is that there's usually just no way to represent the character's talents in the amount of points given. I remember so many pathetic attempts at making Bond "legally" in SR3. Since you're removing the limit though... :D

Yeah...even using FrankTrollman's rules, it's still taking me over 600 BPs to build a proper Bourne...and I've crossed over the 50BP in resources max as well...and I STILL haven't bought any equipment.

Pretty much any supremely bad-ass movie/novel/comicbook character is going to be almost impossible to properly represent in SR4 canon rules with 400 BP.

But maybe that's a good thing. If you could build "Bourne" straight out of the box, what sort of mechanical growth could you expect? Not much, I'm thinking.

Then again, I'm the type that would be perfectly happy to play a skilled bad-ass PC for years and not experience ANY mechanical growth (besides maybe resource wise).

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Grinder
post Feb 1 2008, 03:46 PM
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The 400BPs-character aren't meant to reflect guys like James Bond or Mr. Bourne. They're more aimed towards eliet soliders and above-the-average shadowrunners, but not the creme de la creme.
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TheOneRonin
post Feb 1 2008, 04:08 PM
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QUOTE (Cthulhudreams)
Some obsrevations: Linguasofts are stated as  'Allowing the user to speak a foreign language as fluently as her native language' which implies a very high degree of proficiency, and virtual impossibility to spot the difference.


It seems that upon my re-read of the BBB, there is no longer any appreciable distinction between chipped languages and naturally learned ones. I'm probably a victim of older edition fluff + SR Novel fluff. I'm not sure I like that ruling, and I'll probably houserule it in my games. But I suppose if there really isn't a noticeable difference, a 2070s Bourne would probably be chipped with as many languages as possible.


QUOTE
Knowsofts mean you really don't have to teach the guy anything. You can have all the knowledge 'ready to go' in a CIA databank and just feed rating 5 knowsofts, linguasofts and activesofts across as required. And because of this feature, every treadstone candidate is going to be packing rating 4 skillwires and a datajack.


Personally, I feel that there should be a lot of "available on the fly" knowledge/skills built into the operative. Sure, if you are going to be posing as an international shipping entrepreneur, slot some chips on it. But most of the day-to-day skills/knowledge are going to be learned and not chipped.


QUOTE
Also, due to the amount of cyberware scanners out there, they are going to have a minimum of cyberware (aformentioned skillwires, datajack and probably eyes and ears) and what they do have will be standard grade. Turning up with deltaware at a security checkpoint means you can probably get through undetected, but if you do get noticed, everyone is going to have questions.


Well, I'm sure it says this in the book, but I don't think cyberware scanners can detect the grade of cyber. I would bet you need a bit of surgery to do that. Besides, Eyes and Ears are easy to have without drawing suspicion. Not to mention, having forged medical records indicated the cyber was install for medical reasons should pretty much cover it. I would say Delta or Beta grade Eyes and Ears should be standard.


QUOTE
But his bioware will be deltagrade so mages don't spot it when assensing you. They'd need too many hits.


Probably right. I'm not so sure I like the idea of Bioware being detectable on the astral anyway.


QUOTE
So I reckon bourne is going to look like an amped up bio sammie (muscle toner 4, chemical glands, synaptic booster 3, orthoskin 3, etc, etc, etc), mentally reconditioned from prime sinless recruits who has skillsofts so he can pull whatever he needs out of his ass, and a few core skills at very high ratings indeed (athletics 6, perception 6, maybe a guns skill (almost certainly automatics), and very possibly the stealth skill group, but not much else.)


Ehhh, I don't see Bourne as a combat monster. He is more of a stealth/infil/exfil expert, with hardcore hand-to-hand skills, a wide variety of utility skills, and very good firearms skills. I doubt he would stand be able to survive a stand-up fight with a tweeked street samurai, though. But he doesn't have to.
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bluedragon7
post Feb 1 2008, 05:09 PM
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the cheapest way off doing a Jason Bourne is to build him with 400BP and make that his Stats while entering Treadstone.

-Start him low on physical attributes
-some skills (perception 6, Stealthgrp+Athleticgrp 4, some unarmed 4(+2))
-Make him Awakend (or latent) Adept or mystic work best
-Blandness
-one high Connection (his Boss/Mentor/the one with the ressources)

-Then you begin by having him undergo genetic treatment (you might want to start with genetic infusions and see if they stick ;) )
-His training includes building up attributes and thoese skills he might later on need higher than 4, everything else as skillsoft
-Initiation in a magical group (with latent awakening you can do this after implanting)
-Implant high grade 'ware (with about 1.5 mil :nuyen: you get him down to 1.something essence of usefull ware (all cyber delta, all bio alpha, bio in delta costs 3.5 mil more and gives you 1 point more essence))

Depending the amound of optimisation you can have him ready at about 150 Karma, the more the better, in the end he should have something like 30+ dice for perception tests (see the last film for an example)
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nezumi
post Feb 1 2008, 05:17 PM
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Fair enough!

When I was running a game on the Microsoft Shadowrun forum(now deceased, both game and board), one character asked for a Bourne character named Richard Roe, who was an expert rigger and assassin. One of the players in my other game is a wiz at making characters, truly amazing (she said "I'm going to be a troll rigger decker sam adept". I laughed...) So I handed the challenge off to him/her. The response:

[ Spoiler ]
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bluedragon7
post Feb 1 2008, 05:36 PM
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QUOTE (nezumi)
[ Spoiler ]


well thats,.. :eek: i would require each spell to cost at least 1 point but appart from that it sounds familiar
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