 Stun rounds vs vehicles |
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 Dec 4 2003, 04:28 AM
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#126
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 124 Joined: 21-November 03 Member No.: 5,837  |
How about a page number that says you can't?
According the the way I have always played RPGs and the way most do, if it says you can do somthing you can do it. If it says you can't you can't do it. If it says nothing you can. This is also true from rules of the Game Playing Manefesto from Dx and the Tri Stat system. You really should consider posting a quote that tells me I can't do overflow in a Single attack, cause for now that is how my group plays, unless we see a quote I don't see that changing. |
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Dec 4 2003, 04:38 AM
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#127
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
In melee, there can be no overflow (in a single attack), because you can't do more than Deadly damage. The overflow rule applies to Ranged Combat. |
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Dec 4 2003, 04:40 AM
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#128
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 124 Joined: 21-November 03 Member No.: 5,837 |
So while if I shoot a guy with enough gel rounds he goes down and eventually overflows to true D... But using a sledgehammer I can't possibly kill a man?
I like that system. |
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Dec 4 2003, 04:40 AM
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#129
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Chrome to the Core Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,152 Joined: 14-October 03 From: ::1 Member No.: 5,715 |
Isn't this where the optional rule of allowing that to occur comes in?
I can take a pipe to a guy's head, he's unconscious, and he has a Serious Physical wound to boot! |
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Dec 4 2003, 04:42 AM
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#130
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
As I said, in a single attack. If he already has some Stun and you do Deadly, then it overflows into his Physical monitor. You specifically asked about a single attack, as that is what is in question here, what with vehicles having no Stun monitor.
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Dec 4 2003, 04:44 AM
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#131
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Chrome to the Core Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,152 Joined: 14-October 03 From: ::1 Member No.: 5,715 |
With one swing, I can nearly kill somebody with something that only does stun. Granted, I'm semi-trained in martial arts and have a good grasp of where to hit to do the most damage, but the same example is displayed by people who grab the pipe out of sheer frustration.
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Dec 4 2003, 04:51 AM
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#132
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
I understand that. So could I if I wanted to. Canon-wise though, it'd take at least 2 swings of the sledge in order to actually inflict death on someone.
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Dec 4 2003, 04:55 AM
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#133
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Chrome to the Core Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,152 Joined: 14-October 03 From: ::1 Member No.: 5,715 |
Which is where canon doesn't make sense, and where we simply houserule it to make sense for the time being.
Yes, I know, we aren't going for pure realism, but some of it is too obvious. Now, if it were some Str 1 kid doing the swinging, I'd say the guy ends up with a bruise and a very bad attitude. Or maybe just an egg on the side of his head and the same bad attitude. Other than that, he's toast, 'natch. |
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Dec 4 2003, 04:57 AM
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#134
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
IIRC, even by the canon Ranged Combat rules, you would need 20 successes over-and-above staging damage to Deadly Stun in order to do Deadly Physical in one (Stun) attack. After Deadly Stun, every two successes gives the target one box of Physical Damage.
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Dec 4 2003, 04:58 AM
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#135
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Chrome to the Core Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,152 Joined: 14-October 03 From: ::1 Member No.: 5,715 |
Technically speaking, it's bulldrek (No, I don't mean the site). :P
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Dec 4 2003, 05:00 AM
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#136
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Oh well. I was asked about the canon rules, and then challenged as to their validity when I gave them. I made no comment as to their relevance to real life, as my games tend to be just that...games. :)
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Dec 4 2003, 05:17 AM
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#137
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,138 Joined: 10-June 03 From: Tennessee Member No.: 4,706 |
Even the rules which let you overflow in ranged combat are optional rules. Which brings it back to the point that you cannot, by canon, overflow from stun to physical in one hit.
Realistic? Not really. Likely to be house ruled? Yep. Want to hear the really sick thing? Here it goes. Take our friend, Joe Troll. Joe really, really hates Ford Americars. Since Joe is a big guy (strength 10), he's inclined to beating them up when given a chance. One night he spots a victim in a parking lot and goes to work with a baseball bat. Joe takes a swing and it does nothing. He takes another. Still nothing. About thirty swings later, Joe drops the bat in frustration and gives the car half a dozen karate chops (Joe had two years of karate in high school). The wheels fly off and the car is toast. So, a martial artist can do with their bare hands (via the vicious blow technique) what a blunt instrument cannot? That's just weird. But apparently legal (per CC, Vicious Blow manuever). |
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Dec 4 2003, 05:53 AM
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#138
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Traumatizing players since 1992 Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,282 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 220 |
Horrible example, theres a lot an adept can do with magic powers that a mundane cant do witha baseball bat. Like punch holes in steel plate, which is easy with smashing blow.
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Dec 4 2003, 05:58 AM
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#139
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
He's talking about the martial arts maneuver, not the adept power.
~J |
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Dec 4 2003, 06:30 AM
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#140
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Traumatizing players since 1992 Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,282 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 220 |
Oh, well in that case I also think the martial arts maneuvers are optional and therefore not part of this conversation since we seem to be talking about strict canon only.
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Dec 4 2003, 06:35 AM
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#141
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
I believe there's an option to do similarly that isn't a part of the martial arts rules, but if you're removing optional items, technically all sourcebooks other than the BBB are optional as well.
~J |
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Dec 4 2003, 07:13 AM
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#142
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 186 Joined: 30-January 03 From: Redlands, CA Member No.: 3,996 |
I say use common sense, and common sense says gel rounds wont do much besides break glass, dent, and rip off curtain exterior attachments (mirrors, and antenna if lucky). A gel round could probably puncher the radiator, but the gel round has to be either a luck hit or aimed at that location, but either way the gel round wont do much other then that. As for using a clubs and what not, use common sense too, something tells me enough time a sledge will do damage to a vehicle. Thats what most people have been trying to say, dont need any special rules because there is already a rule for that, the rule zero.
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Dec 4 2003, 01:02 PM
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#143
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,138 Joined: 10-June 03 From: Tennessee Member No.: 4,706 |
True, but when you broaden the scope to include optional rules, bat vs. vicious blow argument just shows that a smiliar rule should be introduced for melee. If you're not going to include any optional rules (which is the core of the argument) then damaging a vehicle with a blunt object is impossible. Even failing that, there do not appear to be any rules which would allow a stun melee weapon to deal physical damage to a vehicle. |
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Dec 4 2003, 02:12 PM
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#144
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
I am sure there was a discussion on doing Physical damage with Stun melee weapons WAY back, Doctor Funkenstein being one of the people discussing the issue... And I remember suggesting then that you could use the same system for doing Physical with clubs and the like as you do with Bone Lacing, ie ½ Power, no change in DL. I think someone has mentioned those numbers in this thread earlier on, too.
I also remember that the thread died almost immediately after I suggested that, and no one got to comment on it. So either everyone accepted that as a house rule and just stopped talking, or they absolutely hated it so much they didn't want to have anything to do with the whole thread afterwards. I think it's the latter. Either way, I'll use ½ Power, same DL, if something like this comes up IMG. |
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Dec 4 2003, 03:15 PM
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#145
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 203 Joined: 3-April 03 Member No.: 4,370 |
IIRC vicious blow can be used with blunt weapons as well. i think it says any weapon that did stun before can now do physical, which leads to it's own problems of someone trying to get a shock glove to do physical. may not be exactly right but that's what i remember.
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Dec 4 2003, 04:20 PM
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#146
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Man In The Machine Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,264 Joined: 26-February 02 From: I-495 S Member No.: 1,105 |
Oh, and heres a good one for you. I slam away at my car with a bat. no Effect. I pull out my katana, and trash it in a few rounds. Now thats screwed up too...
Honestly, Id like to get it (meaning this houserule that is forming) to the point where, with a solid hit (multiple sucesses), will do light damage to an unarmored vehicle. |
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Dec 4 2003, 05:32 PM
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#147
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Target Group: Members Posts: 28 Joined: 14-March 02 Member No.: 2,374 |
That's the way to handle the situation. The precedent has been set with bone lacing, just apply it to all Stun damage attacks against vehicles. Cut the power in half, keep the damage level the same, then apply the "attacks against vehicles" modifiers: i.e., cut the power in half again and reduce the damage level by 1 (then subtract the armor rating). If that results in at least 1L, then let the attacker stage the attack normally. So for an average person with a bat doing a 4M stun attack, would do a base 2M physical attack or a 1L physical attack after making the adjustments vs. vehicles. Since the damage code is at least a 1L allow the average person to make an attack test, at 8 successes and every 2 thereafter, increase the power of the attack by 1. Then vehicle will then make it's resistance test. Since the vehicle is stationary and unresisting apply some target number negatives to the attack test ( -2 or -3, something like that). |
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Dec 4 2003, 06:40 PM
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#148
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 280 Joined: 22-October 03 Member No.: 5,757 |
Troll with Killinghands D Titanium bone lacing and lots of strength and hardliner gloves could make a tank implode :) Wheee fun.
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Dec 4 2003, 07:15 PM
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#149
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
Well, not really, but THE WALLHACKER!!!1112 sure can. |
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Dec 4 2003, 09:28 PM
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#150
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Chrome to the Core Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,152 Joined: 14-October 03 From: ::1 Member No.: 5,715 |
How's that screwed up? A true katana was made to slice through ten stacked corpses in one swing. Think of what it could do, with a properly trained person, in one swing. |
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