Shapeshifter Characters, Convert from SR3 to SR4 Options

[Kastie]

Hello all,

I guess you can say I am the financial backer for my group (meaning I buy all the books). We are still playing SR3, but some of the players, including myself and the GM, would like to make the jump to SR4. Unfortunately, in SR3 I play a shapeshifter character from the Shadowrun Companion book, and they currently do not have them in SR4 (when asked, they said it should be out in a book in late 07, or early 08...and it is already early 08 and no book has them yet). The GM said that if I could get a reasonable conversion for them he would allow it.

My question is, has anybody else converted them, and if so, how? Is it working out, or are they too over/under powered? I would like to see what someone else has done, and find out if it worked out before I try to convert it myself.

Thanks for the assistance,

Kastie

[WearzManySkins]

Dupe post

[WearzManySkins]

There used to be a Topic under the Old Forum format that included conversions of SURGE/Metavariants and Shapeshifters but it appears it did not make the transition to the forum format.

Follow this link to a web page with a version of Shapeshifters,,,it is incomplete but should give you a starting point.

http://shadowrunsurvivalguide.com/ShapeShifter.aspx

WMS

[Fortune]

There are a couple of recent threads discussing Shapeshifters, if you choose to Search for them. I'd link them, but I am short of time at the moment.

Oh, and welcome to Dumpshock.

[Jaid]

Knasser's website has updated shapechangers. they are (of course) unofficial, but you might be able to figure something out from that.

[Kastie]

I did a search, but mainly what I was able to find was questions if people used them in their campaign, and which ones...Dragons, Vampires, etc. I was also a little short of time, so I thought I'd post and then do more seaching when I had more time. Thanks for the links that were given. Just glancing at them briefly, I see they will be helpful.

Thanks again,

Kastie

[swirler]

I wish I had the info from my original SR1 gm
he had his own rules for both shapeshifters and vamps
I played a white tiger shifter in his game

[WearzManySkins]

OK lets begin discussing/talking about it.

Severe Allergy to Silver 15pt Negative Quality.

Dual Nature

Regeneration

No Cyberware/BioWare/Geneware/NanoWare

TechnoMage will be up to each GM.

It is much easier to pay the points to build the character as if he/she was normal, then modify the stats when in Animal Form.

From what has been written about the Shapeshifter Country Yatkut(sp), they can and are organized.

There could be a strong background for magics.

Cost for the Race Selection of Shapeshifter 40 build points sounds about right.

Basic rules for Positive and Negative qualities still apply, it starting out they already have a 15 negative quality ie Allergy to Silver, only 35pts of Negatives and 35 points of Positives.

WMS

[swirler]

how fast would the regen be?

[WearzManySkins]

As per the Creature ability of Regeneration it a Magic and Body test, each success removing one box of damage Physical or Stun per combat round. Page 290 in SR4 book.

FYI Silver Allergy damage is not regenerated, ie as long as the silver object/bullet is still "touching" the shapeshifter.

Does this mean if you hit a shapeshifter with the Panther Assault Cannon firing EX-EX can he/she regenerate the damage before the next round? Depends on the Regeneration Test, he will regenerate some, but more than likely not all of it.

Yes it is not as great as the SR3 regeneration ability, but it is still very good.

WMS

[WearzManySkins]

You could allow Shapeshifter Physical Adepts to have the Way of Regeneration

Rank 1, Regeneration Tests are 1 point easier ie instead of 4 for the target number it is a 3, Magic Rating has to be a 6, Cost 0.5 magic point
Rank 2, Regeneration Tests are 1 point easier ie instead of 3 for the target number it is a 2, Magic Rating has to be a 7, Cost 1 magic point
Rank 3, Regeneration Tests are 1 point easier ie instead of 2 for the target number it is a 1, Magic Rating has to be a 8, Cost 1.5 magic point
Rank 4, Regeneration Tests are 1 point easier ie instead of 1 for the target number it is a 1, Magic Rating has to be a 9, Cost 2 magic point can regenerate silver allergy damage with the silver with out being removed.

Initiate Grade Regeneration Cost 2 Magic Points
All Regeneration Tests successes are doubled.

WMS

[Kastie]

Thanks for the suggestions. My SR3 character was also a mage, so he would remain a mage (My GM would only allow me to convert...so no changing class, spells, etc.).

WearzManySkins - you mentioned the Shapeshifter Country Yatkut. What book is that from? I would like to read up on it to help my cause with my GM.

When reading the Shadow Run Companion description, and then looking at how to convert to SR4 (and not having read the Shapeshifter Country Yatkut), would the Negative Quality "Uncouth" fit...not that they are antisocial, or a sociopathic, but that they do not know how to relate to "humanoids". Things that would seem to be common sense might not be to a shapeshifter. For example, animals kind of just go to the bathroom wherever they feel the need...would a shapeshifter kind of have that...instinct? Or, would Uneducated be a more accurate Negative Quality?

Kastie

[Jaid]

iirc, shapeshifters traditionally have uneducated and don't get compensated for it i thought?

in any case, no one is deserving of uncouth. no matter how little you think your character may know of social graces, they still do not deserve uncouth.

for example, did you know that if you have the uncouth quality, you can't resist leadership tests? that's right, your uncouth character is a natural-born follower. not only that, but they are completely incapable of lying. i mean it. they are so bad at it, they can't even try it without special training. and not only that, but they always believe everything they are told. they never try to get a better deal from anyone (and in fact, are willing to take the worst deal you offer them) too... so tell me, who does that sound like to you? no one, that's fragging who. none of the people you might imagine as having the worst social skills imaginable have that. not even people who don't care who they offend have that. uncouth seriously needs to be rewritten, because in order to create a character who can do anything other than mindlessly do what anyone tells them to do you have to spend way more points on social skills than you gained from the negative quality in the first place.

seriously, uncouth is a punishment i wouldn't inflict on anyone. likewise with infirm (you'd be shocked what you can't even try to do with those two qualities if you seriously read them and apply what they say). even uneducated is a bit ridiculous (honestly, it only makes sense if play starts with that character still in whatever deep, dark hole they were apparently brought up in, because once you've been in the city and can understand language for more than a couple of days you're going to start getting a lot of those basic gaps in your knowledge filled in... but hey, at least the uneducated quality only requires houserules to make sense. it's still playable, if completely silly, without any houserules at all)

[edit] oh, and i don't think yakutsk is detailed anywhere. it is mentioned in a few places, but never really fleshed out iirc... it's pretty much one of those 'we know it exists, we just don't really know anything more about it' kinda places.

of course, there's also plenty of shapeshifters in amazonia iirc. so all you have to do is break into CGL's office, finish all the work on SoLA that needs to be done, then go and get holostreets running, and then you'll be able to read up on them. maybe. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) [/edit]

[Kastie]

Thanks Jaid. Your rant on Uncouth gave me a good chuckle.

Ok. I think I have enough to start my conversion attempts. I'm sure I'll still have questions as I am doing it...so keep the suggestions coming.

Kastie

[KCKitsune]

Dual Nature

...

TechnoMage will be up to each GM.

If you can perceive the Astral, you can't be a Technomancer. It's either one or the other.

[WearzManySkins]

IIRC The Shapshifter Country is spoken about in Shadows of Asia. It also has a pretty powerful spirit pulling some of the strings.

As for uneducated? well to take over a large patch of territory((see above)) and control a population, to me does not qualify. But if a character wanted to let him/her take the lumps that go with it.

@KCKitsune, ok that settles that question then.

From Shadows of Asia page 5 and much more of it there also
"as well as the internal strife between metahumans and shapeshifters in Awakened Yakut"

WMS

[Kastie]

I'll have to check out Shadows of Asia then. See what I can use to add to my story.

[hyzmarca]

You can totally negate the harmful aspects of uncouth by taking an idioglossia as your native language, thus making it impossible for anyone to communicate with you well enough to use social skills on you.

[Glyph]

You can totally negate the harmful aspects of uncouth by taking an Idioglossia as your native language, thus making it impossible for anyone to communicate with you well enough to use social skills on you.

Unfortunately, this also makes it hard for others to communicate with you meaningfully in any way at all. And beware of the social adept who spent 0.25 points in linguistics.

But the Uncouth flaw really doesn't make any sense for shapeshifters, which include things like werefoxes, who get a Charisma bonus comparable to that of elves. Even the Uneducated flaw is too limiting. I would probably do like the SR companion did, and give them less knowledge skill points, make them buy all language skills (since their "native" language will be whatever beast type they are), and charge them more, or limit them, in contacts and resources.

[WearzManySkins]

From the small amount written in SoA. Uncouth and uneducated negative qualities to me would not fit most shapeshifters from Awakened Yakut. Uncouth and uneducated secret police.....naaa,,,brutal yes.

Since they have Astral Sight, Technomancers are out.

Due to the lack of major amounts of infrastructure, and that the "ruling" Free Spirit wants a back to nature land, Cracking Group skills, Electronic Group skills, and Mechanical Group skills would be non existent or extremely limited lets say a skill of 2 max with no specializations for shapeshifters.

But since most if not all shapeshifters are awakened, I would give the extra build points in Conjuring Group Skills, Sorcery Group Skills, what does extra build points mean to me,,,,,maybe at most 5-10 extra build points total,,,not per group.

But due the lack of infrastructure give them 5 bonus build points in Outdoor Group skills.

Why would a shapeshifter wish the leave the promised land? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Not all of them may care to "ruled" by a Free Spirit, or the more cunning or smart ones,,,may see the handwriting on the wall, so to speak about the Free Spirit keeping control.

WMS

[knasser]

Knasser's website has updated shapechangers. they are (of course) unofficial, but you might be able to figure something out from that.

Thanks for the namecheck. Unfortunately, the shapechangers on my site are specifically critters. I honestly can't see a good way of balancing the regeneration power with normal play so I can't really help, here.

[Rasumichin]

But since most if not all shapeshifters are awakened,

Sorry to nitpick, but that's just plain wrong.
SR2-3 listed wether being awakened was common among a certain type of shifters in the description and there's several species, like tigers, i think also bears, who where listed as being "rarely" magically active.

For PCs, this might be different, especially since regeneration is now linked to the magic attribute and therefore of double use for any shapeshifter, vampire and probably megalodon.



I'd add sensitive system to the list of automatic handicaps, but since shapeshifters are also unable to have bioware (and most likely also geneware, probably also symbionts) installed, one would have to raise the BP granted by that handicap.

[WearzManySkins]

Read up a bit higher that has already been covered.

No Cyberware/BioWare/Geneware/NanoWare

As for Awakened, yes that is what the previous rules said, but the numbers from that time were/are FUBAR. Since supposedly a small fraction of the population is awakened but then look out of 100 characters at least 10 are awakened in one form or another.

As for sensitive system*shrugs* that is up to each player and his or her GM.

My point is not to max out the negative qualities a character gets, the 35 point limit is still in effect.

The regeneration ability/power of shapeshifters is not as powerful as in the previous iterations of SR. Is it good yes, but to me not totally over the top.

WMS

[Muspellsheimr]

When reading the Shadow Run Companion description, and then looking at how to convert to SR4 (and not having read the Shapeshifter Country Yatkut), would the Negative Quality "Uncouth" fit...not that they are antisocial, or a sociopathic, but that they do not know how to relate to "humanoids". Things that would seem to be common sense might not be to a shapeshifter. For example, animals kind of just go to the bathroom wherever they feel the need...would a shapeshifter kind of have that...instinct? Or, would Uneducated be a more accurate Negative Quality?

As I have never played third, I cannot put in any significant input, but judging by what I have seen mentioned, I would call it a penalty (say, -2) to social tests, depending on Shapeshifter variety, not an Uncouth quality. Uneducated means they cannot use any technical skills, and unless they are for some reason obligated to never enter modern civilization during their entire life, it would be a very bad choice as a racial feature.

If you can perceive the Astral, you can't be a Technomancer. It's either one or the other.

Agree'd

Also, Regeneration critter power alone would probably cost 50 Build Points to maintain balance (assuming such is possible). After taking into account their various other abilities, I am guessing an 80 point race, if Regeneration is included. It might work better to give them a bonus to Healing Tests.

I would also add in that you cannot have cyberware, with a few minor exceptions determined by the Game Master and your particular variety. Bioware should still be doable, as it is organic, and after Essence is paid, it is as much a part of you as your normal liver. Bioware may be rendered inactive while in your alternate form however.

for example, did you know that if you have the uncouth quality, you can't resist leadership tests? that's right, your uncouth character is a natural-born follower. not only that, but they are completely incapable of lying. i mean it. they are so bad at it, they can't even try it without special training. and not only that, but they always believe everything they are told. they never try to get a better deal from anyone (and in fact, are willing to take the worst deal you offer them) too... so tell me, who does that sound like to you? no one, that's fragging who. none of the people you might imagine as having the worst social skills imaginable have that. not even people who don't care who they offend have that. uncouth seriously needs to be rewritten, because in order to create a character who can do anything other than mindlessly do what anyone tells them to do you have to spend way more points on social skills than you gained from the negative quality in the first place.

Resisting the use of social skills is a resistance test, not a skill test. As such, it is unaffected by defaulting or Uncouth.

Taking the worst possible deal? You are unable to successfully negotiate for a higher price, unusual circumstances withstanding, but you are never obligated to take the worst price, unless you also have a Logic & Intuition of 1.

Put simply - you fail.

[Jaid]

Resisting the use of social skills is a resistance test, not a skill test. As such, it is unaffected by defaulting or Uncouth.

Taking the worst possible deal? You are unable to successfully negotiate for a higher price, unusual circumstances withstanding, but you are never obligated to take the worst price, unless you also have a Logic & Intuition of 1.

Put simply - you fail.

eh, maybe you should read the rules before you open your mouth.

first off, there is no type of test called a resistance test. it doesn't exist. yes, there are tests that include resistance in their names, but these are not a linked group of tests with a special set of rules.

secondly, social skills are an opposed skill test. there's a chart on page 121 of SR4 that clearly reads "charisma-linked opposed tests". which, by the way, includes all of the social skills that i mentioned. in point of fact, any test where you use a given skill is a test of that skill... for example, the control rig gives +2 to vehicle skill tests while rigging, which includes any agility test while operating a humanoid drone (where you substitute your piloting skill for agility). this would make no sense unless the inclusion of the pilot skill into the dice pool turned it into a piloting test, since (for example) longarms is not a vehicle skill, and would not get a bonus from the control rig because of that.

thirdly, if you are completely unable to negotiate, then you are going to get the worst deal. once negotiation has begun, you have already committed to buying. if you just walk out after making the fixer show up and take all those risks, then you'll likely find that they don't show up in the future. so you are pretty much obligated to take the worst price, because if you don't accept the crappy price the other guy is offering when he shows up, it won't be long before people demand that you put a down payment equal to the crappiest price the other guy might offer, because they aren't going to stick their neck out for some dumbass who's going to make them look like an idiot. so yes, you pretty much are obligated to take the crappiest price around on anything.