Is Horizon evil enough?, is Google cyberpunk Options

[Backgammon]

I've been reading Corp Enclaves, which is the only real source of information on Horizon we have right now.

As I read I kept thinking "this sucks this sucks this suck" until I read about the dawkins group and then went "wait, what's that about destroying memes"?

Basically, the whole Google "Love you employees" stuff is terribly, TERRIBLY not cyberpunk. All of the megas have a wageslave culture, and then this little guy goes completely opposite. No good. Wageslave are essential to cyberpunk.

There is the tantalizing secret of "what is the Collective?", but that's not enough. These huys are waaaay to do-gooder.

But then, there is the Dawkins Group. Get this: they destroy memes and replace them with more profitable ones. These guys airdrop social adepts and marketing gurus into places, and then systematically DESTROY THEIR CULTURE and replace it with "BUY PEPSI".

That is the most awesome evil shit ever. But it needs to be emphasized more. The idea is there, but it did not go into details enough. There needs to be shadowposts about this native villager guy saying how his proud hunter village got transformed into a slobby BUY PEPSI place, how the village elders were killed and the kids indoctrinated and whatever else they do. Because that is seriously bad ass.

Aside from that, Google/Horizon needs to scale its evilness factor quite a bit. There are reports of disgruntled Googlers saying how it really is at Google, we need to see that for Horizon too. Doesn't mean its entirely true, but we need to see some of the dirt under Horizon's feet. And more meme killing. Buy Pepsi.

[nezumi]

Give them time. Just remember Universal Brotherhood.

[Ryu]

Yupp, meme hunters are seriously fun stuff. Imagine them going after one of your more opinionated PCs, that could make for a cool battle.

[Zak]

It is even worse than your usual 'wageslave' treatment. Even the shadows bought into their schemes.
A Horizon employee loves his country. Err, corp. So does an Ares Employee.

The difference is the way they ensure loyality. Fake freedom is still slavery.

[martindv]

But there's happiness in slavery.

[Malicant]

Basically, the whole Google "Love you employees" stuff is terribly, TERRIBLY not cyberpunk. All of the megas have a wageslave culture, and then this little guy goes completely opposite. No good. Wageslave are essential to cyberpunk.

I'd say you lack imagination to understand how terrifying the whole "Love you employees" concept is. It's way beyond cyberpunk slavery, granted, but I see it as something far worse. The cage, the shackles and the wardens been removed, but it is still slavery. I'd even say "Love you employees" functions like the cage, shackles and wardens. Horizon is so good at manipulating perception, it's plain scary. Employees might think they are free, they believe they work for nice guys, but at the end of the day, Horizon is still a AAA. And nobody will ever know, since they play the mediagame in a way no one has before.

For me, they replaced Aztechnology as the creepiest Megacon.

[Kyoto Kid]

...you put enough spin on dog poo and they'll think its paté. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

[Jhaiisiin]

"Polish a turd, it's still a turd!!!" - Peanut of Jeff Dunham

[D-Franco83]

Malicant has a great point,

Horizon is the master of manipulation. It is a welcome innovative addition to the AAA Corp Scene. They are more of a necessary evil in SR. They are the straightest shooters, more community focused than the other corps. However, the bottom line is that they want to control all media. Besides the line 'killing with kindness' is one of their traits. What better way to take out rivals; extract valuable personnel and such from rivals as always appearing to be the good guys.

I personally like the idea of 'The Consensus' being an AI instead of Bugs, but that is just my opinion.

EDIT: Now that I think about it, didn't one of the AI's from the Renraku Arcology Incident still 'at large'?

[martindv]

No. Emergence was pretty clear about their fate.

[D-Franco83]

Oh okay, I never picked up Emergence. What did happen?

[Ophis]

It's complicated, but it doesn't mean that the consensus isn't an AI, it's just not Megaera/Morgan, Deus or Mirage.

[Kyoto Kid]

"Polish a turd, it's still a turd!!!" - Peanut of Jeff Dunham

...but with Horizon's touch, it's a very tasty turd that is good for you. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

[Synner]

The difference is the way they ensure loyality. Fake freedom is still slavery.

It's even more than that. Horizon is proactive. Consider P2.0. Horizon controls the software architecture, it has your account information, it could potentially manipulate your ratings, it has access to the information people volunatrily pump into P2.0, it could be collecting and documenting your interests, spending habits, and hobbies... and it is just field-testing the technology in its backyard - imagine when it goes global playing off its huge success story in LA and banking on the popularity of Hollywood stars and big shots listed.

If you've read about the issues recently raised regarding Facebook and certain other social networks the magnitude of what Horizone is doing is pretty scary.

[Kanada Ten]

With Internal Persona, working for Horizon is like having your boss staring over your shoulder, shaking his head, tsking, making little scratchy noses on a clipboard: all the time. Only it's not through cameras or even an AR icon; it's through the eyes of your fellow employees, your associates, your friends, your fucking bartender. You have to put up the front 24-7 and there's no escape. They are noting everything you do and say, they know your "buying habits" - aka the way you leer at certain shapes, they know how you browse and what makes you impluse buy, they count the moments you spend lost in thought (and when they can, they follow where those thoughts lead). They determine your nuyen value to the corporation in real time. That kind of pressure to present yourself as a picture perfect person at all times drives people insane. And when you go insane, when you crack under the mask, they sit you in the chair and hardwire your brain into the mask, like turning Humanists into MOM supporters. It's exactly like wageslaving for a Japanacorp, only you gleefully jump into the culture because it seems so free and open, and then gleefully jump out of a window when your rating plummets. Imageslavery.

[toturi]

Does Horizon stop their people from leaving? From what I have read, Horizon also has a high dropout rate due to the very fact you are being scrutinised 24/7/365.

My impression of the material is that Horizon does not stop their people from leaving. The positives are so atttractive that people are trying to get into the corp, those that cannot take the pressure either drop down the ranks or leave.

[Eyeless Blond]

Does Horizon stop their people from leaving? From what I have read, Horizon also has a high dropout rate due to the very fact you are being scrutinised 24/7/365.

My impression of the material is that Horizon does not stop their people from leaving. The positives are so atttractive that people are trying to get into the corp, those that cannot take the pressure either drop down the ranks or leave.

They likely have a very high turnover rate, hiring and firing and having people "quit" constantly. And if a few people happen to get... lost in the shuffle now and again, well no one really notices, because the turnover rate is just so high, how can you keep up with all those people?

Who's going to look into it? Internal Affairs would, but well they're so gosh-darn busy on their side-projects; they have to be, since so few people like IA guys snooping around they're constantly working on their Persona rating or they'll be downsized next.

[Jaid]

Does Horizon stop their people from leaving? From what I have read, Horizon also has a high dropout rate due to the very fact you are being scrutinised 24/7/365.

My impression of the material is that Horizon does not stop their people from leaving. The positives are so atttractive that people are trying to get into the corp, those that cannot take the pressure either drop down the ranks or leave.

sure, once you've sucked them dry why bother keeping them? let someone else have the responsibility to make that person sane again (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[MaxHunter]

perfect capitalist sense

[DocTaotsu]

Horizon is a horribyl cutthroat place to work. You might be able to fail upwards in other corps because of influence or avarice but here... here you're on trial 24/7 and that's before you consider that they might have a pet AI or worse tunning the fine bits. Had a bad week? You just got "demoted". Have two bad weeks and your social standing just dropped into the shitter, you're unreliable. Tags are added to your work record, the drink machines start charging you. You recieve emails suggesting that perhaps this isn't the line of work for you, perhaps you should consider working in a more "traditional" setting. Perform or die, you can't even cry "But my daddy works here!". In many ways that's more stressful than being a mindless drone. The safety net that is present in other corps just doesn't seem to exist at Horizon.

Just because they have a fully stocked drink machine doens't mean it's doesn't have it's dark underbelly. And their new, it's all fun and games until it turns out that datajack implantations and memetic modification are standard practice past a certain point. It's even creepier when you realize that people actually love working there. That they do these things willingly, not because of any overt brainwashing but because they openly desire this sort of lifestyle. Horizon, all the fanatic, none of the loyalty.

Horizon Corps loves it's employees, and it's employees love Horizon. Or they work somewhere else.

I think Horizon is more Snow Crash than Neuromancer and that can be kinda off putting.

[KCKitsune]

Does Horizon stop their people from leaving? From what I have read, Horizon also has a high dropout rate due to the very fact you are being scrutinised 24/7/365.

My impression of the material is that Horizon does not stop their people from leaving. The positives are so atttractive that people are trying to get into the corp, those that cannot take the pressure either drop down the ranks or leave.

Most likely depends where they work. If it's a normal to slightly important grunt, then they most likely wouldn't care. The higher up you are, the more "reluctant" they are to have you leave while still breathing. Now if you're not breathing... they still may want you to stay... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dead.gif)

[toturi]

Most likely depends where they work. If it's a normal to slightly important grunt, then they most likely wouldn't care. The higher up you are, the more "reluctant" they are to have you leave while still breathing. Now if you're not breathing... they still may want you to stay... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dead.gif)

Why would they be reluctant to let you leave if your rating drops? If your rating goes down, you'd be unimportant then. From what I gather, there is no vertical structure to Horizon, everyone and everybody is Horizon-tal.

[Eyeless Blond]

Nah,there has to be *some* vertical structure. I mean, you need maintenance and security and such; that's not going to be as important or pay as well as a corporate liaison, talented marketer, or highly skilled worker... or a mage, for that matter.

But it does seem a lot more, Borg-like, really, than other megas. And by that I mean real Borg, not retconned Voyager-series Queen-controlled Borg. Everyone's a drone; everyone's plugged into the Consensus, like... like neurons in a neural network. A hive mind, written into the HIP code. We are Horizon. We are the future. Your culture will adapt to serve as ours. Your biological and technological distinctiveness will be added to our own.

[toturi]

Nah,there has to be *some* vertical structure. I mean, you need maintenance and security and such; that's not going to be as important or pay as well as a corporate liaison, talented marketer, or highly skilled worker... or a mage, for that matter.

But it does seem a lot more, Borg-like, really, than other megas. And by that I mean real Borg, not retconned Voyager-series Queen-controlled Borg. Everyone's a drone; everyone's plugged into the Consensus, like... like neurons in a neural network. A hive mind, written into the HIP code. We are Horizon. We are the future. Your culture will adapt to serve as ours. Your biological and technological distinctiveness will be added to our own.

But as I read it, the way Horizon is configured that maintanance guy or security guy can crash the CEO's internal rating if the CEO does something to piss off the peon.

[KCKitsune]

But as I read it, the way Horizon is configured that maintanance guy or security guy can crash the CEO's internal rating if the CEO does something to piss off the peon.

That peon had better have some supporting evidence as the CEO will most certainly have people who are giving him a good rating. Also, unless there is ZERO emotions at Horizon, that peon will most likely get fired.