Sexual "oddities" in SR... Redux, No links because we want this to continue Options

[KCKitsune]

OK Everyone, The Dunner shut down the last thread and for a good reason (we violated Dumpshock's TOS). I would like this thread to continue, but NO links to anything. If someone has a question, then it should be asked in a PM. Also Wikipedia is a "good" source of information (at least it will get you started) and you can find out lots of information about Things That Mortal Man Was Never To Know™. So come on people... let's continue this discussion.

[DreadPirateKitte...]

I think its time to make the cyberkitty. I'll get to work

[Chrysalis]

Am I allowed to post?

[the_dunner]

This is a Moderator Posting.

This is not a thread warning. This is an attempt to avoid a thread warning. As moderators, we do NOT want to have to give out further warnings based on postings to this thread. In an attempt to prevent this thread from venturing into realms that are not acceptable, I'm re-posting the relevant points in the Terms of Service here. Please keep these in mind BEFORE hitting the submit post button.

1. Personal attacks, flaming, trolling, and baiting are prohibited. This includes any form of racism, sexism or religious intolerance.

3. No sexually explicit or offensive material. This includes links leading to materials of this nature. DSF is accessed by many people in many different settings, and we want the forum to remain accessible to everyone.

4. Discussion of politics, religion, and sex are prohibited, except as they directly pertain to Shadowrun or another game. Discussions on these subjects will be watched closely, and any inappropriate posts may result in warnings or suspensions.

[knasser]

It was me talking about monogamy, wasn't it? I freaked people out - my bad. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

[hermit]

Allrighty ...

Firstly, what constitutes sexually explicit materials? This can be stretched or limited almost as people see fit, so I'd like to have a moderatorial definition here so we know what can be done and what cannot. Would, for instance, Chrysalis', Trolls' and Hyzsomethings 'hidden' texts qualify as explicit, or discussing the cyber kitty, or discussing sex with spirits? In a thread dealing with sexual matters, not mentioning sex is a bit difficult .... so it's in everyone's interest to know just how far we're allowed to go.

[Critias]

If I were to hazard a guess -- and I'll go ahead, otherwise there's not much point in typing -- I'd say it was probably some of the spoiler-hidden text in the last thread. The rest of it was, by and large, fairly tame. But the snippets of short fiction were, no matter how well written they may or may not have been, likely "beyond the pale" by moderator's standards.

[hobgoblin]

funny then that about a year or so ago someone wrote a short story that included hot elf sex, and posted it on here...

but that was before the mod overhaul i guess.

btw, there was some talk about a scene in a gits:sac episode. iirc, what was going on there was that the major was searching her remote memory for the time of the original laughing man incident. she had it stashed with a friend. the other girls there, no clue (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[hyzmarca]

It strongly depends on the cycle of the moon and whatever drugs the moderators happen to be smoking at the time. Sometimes, things which don't contain any sexual content are considered sexually explicit (a particular Werewolf: The Apocalypse character description comes to mind). Sometimes detailed descriptions of sex act go unnoticed.
It seems to be a total crapshoot really. Of course, it doesn't help that the new board software seems to have somehow driven the moderators insane.

[Redjack]

Firstly, what constitutes sexually explicit materials? This can be stretched or limited almost as people see fit, so I'd like to have a moderatorial definition here so we know what can be done and what cannot. Would, for instance, Chrysalis', Trolls' and Hyzsomethings 'hidden' texts qualify as explicit, or discussing the cyber kitty, or discussing sex with spirits? In a thread dealing with sexual matters, not mentioning sex is a bit difficult .... so it's in everyone's interest to know just how far we're allowed to go.

Of course, as with everything, the definition is subjective. That said, many of those spoilered stories where explicit. In one (or more cases), they generated a moderator warning to the poster.

This is Dumpshock, not Penthouse Letters or cyber-sex diaries... or worse.

- Lastly, the Dumpshock Forums are for discussion of Shadowrun and gaming. The Dumpshock Forums do not have an "off-topic" area, and discussions unrelated to Shadowrun or gaming should be taken elsewhere.

Time and time again we emphasize that this board should be accessible to persons of the age of 14. You do not know the true age of anyone you have not met in RL who posts in that forum.

One litmus test of your post could be: Is it written such that you could stand before a judge in the United States and not feel (that because you were in a discussion with a 14 year old) that you may be going to prison for your post?
Another might be: Would you feel comfortable with the detail of the content having the same discussion with your mother?

That said, this is not an invitation to debate the laws in the US, nor the interpretation of those laws, nor how open minded your mother is.

[hobgoblin]

ah, the joys if not being a US citizen (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Critias]

Would you feel comfortable with the detail of the content having the same discussion with your mother?

That said, this is not an invitation to debate the laws in the US, nor the interpretation of those laws, nor how open minded your mother is.

What about having the discussion with someone else's mother? 'Cause some folks are totally into that.

[Zak]

so, shouldn't dumpshock 'move' somewhere save instead? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Critias]

so, shouldn't dumpshock 'move' somewhere save instead? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

I'm pretty sure the Terms of Service says something like "follow these rules," not "or don't follow these rules, and the Forum will change for you."

[Zak]

That's why it was a question including a (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) , and not a threat, demand or attempted bribe.

[thedafan]

Back to the subject at hand. Part of the problem of all this sexual perversion is money. So we assume that some corporate money maker would spend big buck to make his very own sex toy out of some poor unfortunate without a SIN. If I was a corporation with plans to rise to the top. One of things on my to-do list would be a psych evaluation of anybody hitting middle management. People willing to spend big bucks on delta grade sex toys would get flagged. The corporations are not going to let a self obsessive person in a position to create a bad PR moment.

Dr. Evil
"Scary ain't it"

[Critias]

Back to the subject at hand. Part of the problem of all this sexual perversion is money. So we assume that some corporate money maker would spend big buck to make his very own sex toy out of some poor unfortunate without a SIN. If I was a corporation with plans to rise to the top. One of things on my to-do list would be a psych evaluation of anybody hitting middle management. People willing to spend big bucks on delta grade sex toys would get flagged. The corporations are not going to let a self obsessive person in a position to create a bad PR moment.

Dr. Evil
"Scary ain't it"

Right. Which is why no one with any money, power, influence, or all three has any secret (or less-than-secret) perversions in real life, either! The last thing a game all about dystopian oppression needs is crazy guys and perverts running the show, right?!

[hermit]

One litmus test of your post could be: Is it written such that you could stand before a judge in the United States and not feel (that because you were in a discussion with a 14 year old) that you may be going to prison for your post?

Then just close this thread.

[Particle_Beam]

Or don't post anything that violates the terms of conduct. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

Much easier, I guess...

[KCKitsune]

Back to the subject at hand. Part of the problem of all this sexual perversion is money. So we assume that some corporate money maker would spend big buck to make his very own sex toy out of some poor unfortunate without a SIN. If I was a corporation with plans to rise to the top. One of things on my to-do list would be a psych evaluation of anybody hitting middle management. People willing to spend big bucks on delta grade sex toys would get flagged. The corporations are not going to let a self obsessive person in a position to create a bad PR moment.

Dr. Evil
"Scary ain't it"

Actually my cyberkitty was all standard grade 'ware and it was only a little more expensive than a good sports car (Eurowind 3K). My upgraded kitty was a tad more expensive and it doubled as a bodyguard. My SuperKitty ™ is even more expensive, but she'd be a right terror to face in combat.

I think its time to make the cyberkitty. I'll get to work

My kitty is already done. Do you use Daegaan's SR4 character generator? If so then I can email you the file of cyberkitty™, cyberkitty+™, and Super CyberKitty™ .

[hyzmarca]

Then just close this thread.

The following excerpts are from the second book I randomly pulled from an American public high school 9th grade summer reading list, deemed appropriate for 14 years olds.

[ Spoiler ]

Matt slowly shook his head and wagged his fin­ger at her. "You're flirting with me and that's very dangerous because, as you may have noticed, we're alone and my self-control is reaching an all-time low."

"Mmmmm," Lizabeth said, smiling, feeling out­rageously bold. She wore no underwear, and the borrowed sweats were softly abrasive against her skin. It was a new sensation. Sexy, she thought. Just right for sprawling on Matt's bed. She realized she wanted to make love with him and ac­knowledged that she'd come a long way in a very short time. She wasn't nervous, or embarrassed, or afraid. For the first time in her life she was deliciously aroused, and she thought it conve­nient that his self-control was reaching its all-time low just when her own sexuality was beginning to bloom. She watched him crawl across the bed and straddle her, and she willed herself to relax. She knew things would be different with Matt. He knew when to give and when to take, and he honestly enjoyed both.

He kissed her tenderly, fully intending to be a slow, sensitive lover. The kiss deepened. Tongue slid over tongue and hunger took over. In an in­stant his hands were under her shirt, covering her breasts, gently squeezing, his thumbs teasing across rigid nipples. He put his mouth to her heated skin, trailing kisses from her breasts to below the waistband of the sweatpants. Too fast, he thought, but he couldn't stop. He had to see her. All of her. He had to taste all of her. Clothes were stripped away and he kissed her again. Lower this time. Lord, how he wanted her. The wanting pounded in his groin, and his blood boiled with it. His kisses grew rough. His mouth was relent­less as she arched her back and moaned for more. He felt her shudder and cry out and then he was inside her, driven by a need almost frightening in its intensity. Afterward he held her close, afraid to move from her, afraid he'd been all muscle and blind passion and no brain.

Her first thought, when she was finally capable of thought, was that she no longer gave a damn about being a fairy. She'd just been to the top and anything else, fairy wings included, would be cold potatoes. Her second thought was that she loved Matt Hallahan beyond reason. She loved him when he was gentle and when he was fierce, and she loved him most of all when he was naked. He was magnificent when he was naked.

Matt buried his face in her hair, "Liz, I think I got carried away..."

"Mmmmm," Lizabeth said, her voice muffled as she snuggled closer.

"Was it awful?"

"Awful?" She pushed back enough to look at him. "Awful?" She saw he was serious, and his fear prompted a smile.

It was the most radiant smile ever. Filled with love and pride and supreme satisfaction. It was the smile he'd promised himself the first time he saw her. "Hmmm," he said. "So I guess it wasn't awful."

Her smile grew sly and she dallied with a moist curl, wondering how it could be so dark, almost black, when the rest of his hair was so blond. "It was passable," she said.

"You think it could get better if we practiced?"

Lizabeth didn't think she could live through it if it got any better. "Probably it would take a lot of practice," she said, letting a fingertip wander lower, provoking a sharp intake of breath.

[...]

He pressed himself hard against her hip and groaned. "Is this a dream?" Then he answered himself. "No. Dreams don't perspire." He kissed her shoulder and moved his hand down her rib cage, across her belly, and lower.

A minute ago she didn't think she could get any warmer, but she'd been wrong! Liquid fire roiled through her with each stroke of his thumb. She swore at him for waking her up with his over­heated body, and she swore at him for having such clever fingers.

"Do you like it?" he asked.

Yes, she liked it. She liked the way he took possession of her, and she liked her newfound capacity for passion. She gloried in her own sen­suality, clenching her teeth and grabbing handfuls of the sheet as desire surged so strong under his hand it became almost unbearable. He slid between her legs and kissed her. The kiss was sweet and hard. Love and passion. He continued to kiss her while he entered. He knew his way now. He knew the rhythm she liked. Knew how to drive her wild. And he knew how to satisfy her. There was a moment when time stood still, when they hovered at the brink, staring into each other's eyes. It was only a moment, and then they skittered off into the dark, pulsating void of sex­ual release.

They clung to each other for a long time after­ward, too sated, too exhausted to care about damp sheets and record-breaking temperatures. A stone flicked at the window, but they didn't hear it over their own heartbeats. Another stone hit, and Lizabeth opened her eyes.

Given that this has the American 9th grader seal of approval I suppose we can use it as a guideline.
Most prominent is the lack of the words penis and vagina, or even euphemisms for the same, though it certainly describes sexual penetration. The lack of clinical terms or equivalent euphemisms is interesting and it could, perhaps, be the necessary component to maintain supposed appropriateness.

Though this is a bit odd when juxtoposed with the clinical nature of ninth grade health and sexual education textbooks.

[DreadPirateKitte...]

Back to the subject at hand. Part of the problem of all this sexual perversion is money. So we assume that some corporate money maker would spend big buck to make his very own sex toy out of some poor unfortunate without a SIN. If I was a corporation with plans to rise to the top. One of things on my to-do list would be a psych evaluation of anybody hitting middle management. People willing to spend big bucks on delta grade sex toys would get flagged. The corporations are not going to let a self obsessive person in a position to create a bad PR moment.

Dr. Evil
"Scary ain't it"

I think I said "Mr. Important Yakuza dude" but I can only imagine some corporate muckity muck blackmailing so and so before "firing" him.

[Kremlin KOA]

Nathanross wrote in the other thread

That just seems kind of boring. I mean, if the spirit isn't also wanting for it, then it's just a glorified sex-doll. And why would spirits want to have sex? There is no need for them to reproduce to perpetuate their genes, they are immortal! They also lack a nervous system, so really what can give them pleasure?

Um spirits can canonically feel pain, and are not immune to the orgasm spell. thus can feel sexual pleasure. Why wouldn't they want that?

[nathanross]

Okay, I'm really confused why the previous thread was closed. It was my understanding that while sex talk for the sake of sex talk was not okay, anything relative to the Sixth world is okay. Could The Dunner please state what thread was the offender? Otherwise we have no idea what is wrong.

Also, the whole 14 year old rule is just plain impossible. It also involves far too much subjective judgment. I personally think that if I had a 14 year old child (even a son), I would encourage him to read about tentacle sex with organs, but hey that is just me. It is also hard to recall exactly the level of sexual perversion I had been exposed to at that age or should have been exposed to.

I was very happy with the previous thread because I believed it was an acknowledgment to the maturity of DS readers and posters. I am also happy that SR4 has totally given up the kiddy gloves and even references Bunraku metahuman sex-dolls in the Core book. I do not think that material is really something a "pure" 14yo should handle, but that's the way it is.

Instead of saying no sexual references, we need a more solid line drawn as to what is appropriate and what is not. Do you draw the line at sixth world sexual narrative? Is there a certain limit to the perversion that can be presented in this narrative? You must define these things since in the end, where the limit is drawn is relative to the moderator's subjective judgment.

EDIT - No matter how much we separate the Sixth world from our own, everything we present is relative to our own. It is impossible to talk only about sexuality in the sixth world without making reference to sexuality (and sexual perversion) in our own. This should be acknowledged.

Um spirits can canonically feel pain, and are not immune to the orgasm spell. thus can feel sexual pleasure. Why wouldn't they want that?

I know they can feel pain, and I must admit, I didn't realize they could experience orgasm (even through the spell) due to lack of a central nervous system or brain. I always assumed the "pleasure" a spirit feels is due to something different than humans feel. We feel sexual pleasure because our genetics want to provide incentive for us to reproduce. Since spirits cannot reproduce, why would they receive sexual pleasure from sex?

[Muskie]

My group actualy discussed a new type of Bunkraku system, recently..

Name your sexual fantasy. Catgirls? Little kids? Naja Daviar (with improved Brown-nipple Action)? Mini-Dunklezahn? No problem. We can create anything you desire. And it's all real. no Pfixes, no Cyberware. It is, however a magical construct, so please, Keep your new playthings away from any wards, and keep the pendant it wearts on it's neck at all times.


-after taking the sicko's nuyen and specifications, the mage goes to the back room-

Hey, Mike, grab another stray kitten, will ya?

---


Shapechange + Sustaning focus = NUYEN!


BTW, about Dragons:
Dunklezahn's always been open-minded enough to ignore the Dragon/Metahuman mating taboo, Just look at Ryan Mercury!

Not to mention the Dunkie/Damien Knight Slash fic I wrote once..

"It was only 60 seconds, but What a ride!"