Full Version: Sexual "oddities" in SR... Redux
OK Everyone, The Dunner shut down the last thread and for a good reason (we violated Dumpshock's TOS). I would like this thread to continue, but NO links to anything. If someone has a question, then it should be asked in a PM. Also Wikipedia is a "good" source of information (at least it will get you started) and you can find out lots of information about Things That Mortal Man Was Never To Know™. So come on people... let's continue this discussion.
I think its time to make the cyberkitty. I'll get to work
Am I allowed to post?
This is a Moderator Posting.
This is not a thread warning. This is an attempt to avoid a thread warning. As moderators, we do NOT want to have to give out further warnings based on postings to this thread. In an attempt to prevent this thread from venturing into realms that are not acceptable, I'm re-posting the relevant points in the Terms of Service here. Please keep these in mind BEFORE hitting the submit post button.
This is not a thread warning. This is an attempt to avoid a thread warning. As moderators, we do NOT want to have to give out further warnings based on postings to this thread. In an attempt to prevent this thread from venturing into realms that are not acceptable, I'm re-posting the relevant points in the Terms of Service here. Please keep these in mind BEFORE hitting the submit post button.
QUOTE (Terms of Service)
1. Personal attacks, flaming, trolling, and baiting are prohibited. This includes any form of racism, sexism or religious intolerance.
QUOTE (Terms of Service)
3. No sexually explicit or offensive material. This includes links leading to materials of this nature. DSF is accessed by many people in many different settings, and we want the forum to remain accessible to everyone.
QUOTE (Terms of Service)
4. Discussion of politics, religion, and sex are prohibited, except as they directly pertain to Shadowrun or another game. Discussions on these subjects will be watched closely, and any inappropriate posts may result in warnings or suspensions.
It was me talking about monogamy, wasn't it? I freaked people out - my bad.
Allrighty ...
Firstly, what constitutes sexually explicit materials? This can be stretched or limited almost as people see fit, so I'd like to have a moderatorial definition here so we know what can be done and what cannot. Would, for instance, Chrysalis', Trolls' and Hyzsomethings 'hidden' texts qualify as explicit, or discussing the cyber kitty, or discussing sex with spirits? In a thread dealing with sexual matters, not mentioning sex is a bit difficult .... so it's in everyone's interest to know just how far we're allowed to go.
Firstly, what constitutes sexually explicit materials? This can be stretched or limited almost as people see fit, so I'd like to have a moderatorial definition here so we know what can be done and what cannot. Would, for instance, Chrysalis', Trolls' and Hyzsomethings 'hidden' texts qualify as explicit, or discussing the cyber kitty, or discussing sex with spirits? In a thread dealing with sexual matters, not mentioning sex is a bit difficult .... so it's in everyone's interest to know just how far we're allowed to go.
If I were to hazard a guess -- and I'll go ahead, otherwise there's not much point in typing -- I'd say it was probably some of the spoiler-hidden text in the last thread. The rest of it was, by and large, fairly tame. But the snippets of short fiction were, no matter how well written they may or may not have been, likely "beyond the pale" by moderator's standards.
funny then that about a year or so ago someone wrote a short story that included hot elf sex, and posted it on here...
but that was before the mod overhaul i guess.
btw, there was some talk about a scene in a gits:sac episode. iirc, what was going on there was that the major was searching her remote memory for the time of the original laughing man incident. she had it stashed with a friend. the other girls there, no clue
but that was before the mod overhaul i guess.
btw, there was some talk about a scene in a gits:sac episode. iirc, what was going on there was that the major was searching her remote memory for the time of the original laughing man incident. she had it stashed with a friend. the other girls there, no clue
It strongly depends on the cycle of the moon and whatever drugs the moderators happen to be smoking at the time. Sometimes, things which don't contain any sexual content are considered sexually explicit (a particular Werewolf: The Apocalypse character description comes to mind). Sometimes detailed descriptions of sex act go unnoticed.
It seems to be a total crapshoot really. Of course, it doesn't help that the new board software seems to have somehow driven the moderators insane.
It seems to be a total crapshoot really. Of course, it doesn't help that the new board software seems to have somehow driven the moderators insane.
QUOTE (hermit @ Mar 15 2008, 09:33 AM) 
Firstly, what constitutes sexually explicit materials? This can be stretched or limited almost as people see fit, so I'd like to have a moderatorial definition here so we know what can be done and what cannot. Would, for instance, Chrysalis', Trolls' and Hyzsomethings 'hidden' texts qualify as explicit, or discussing the cyber kitty, or discussing sex with spirits? In a thread dealing with sexual matters, not mentioning sex is a bit difficult .... so it's in everyone's interest to know just how far we're allowed to go.
Of course, as with everything, the definition is subjective. That said, many of those spoilered stories where explicit. In one (or more cases), they generated a moderator warning to the poster.
This is Dumpshock, not Penthouse Letters or cyber-sex diaries... or worse.
QUOTE (Terms of Service)
- Lastly, the Dumpshock Forums are for discussion of Shadowrun and gaming. The Dumpshock Forums do not have an "off-topic" area, and discussions unrelated to Shadowrun or gaming should be taken elsewhere.
Time and time again we emphasize that this board should be accessible to persons of the age of 14. You do not know the true age of anyone you have not met in RL who posts in that forum.
One litmus test of your post could be: Is it written such that you could stand before a judge in the United States and not feel (that because you were in a discussion with a 14 year old) that you may be going to prison for your post?
Another might be: Would you feel comfortable with the detail of the content having the same discussion with your mother?
That said, this is not an invitation to debate the laws in the US, nor the interpretation of those laws, nor how open minded your mother is.
ah, the joys if not being a US citizen
QUOTE (Redjack @ Mar 15 2008, 12:20 PM)
Would you feel comfortable with the detail of the content having the same discussion with your mother?
That said, this is not an invitation to debate the laws in the US, nor the interpretation of those laws, nor how open minded your mother is.
That said, this is not an invitation to debate the laws in the US, nor the interpretation of those laws, nor how open minded your mother is.
What about having the discussion with someone else's mother? 'Cause some folks are totally into that.
so, shouldn't dumpshock 'move' somewhere save instead? 
QUOTE (Zak @ Mar 15 2008, 11:47 AM)
so, shouldn't dumpshock 'move' somewhere save instead?
I'm pretty sure the Terms of Service says something like "follow these rules," not "or don't follow these rules, and the Forum will change for you."
That's why it was a question including a , and not a threat, demand or attempted bribe.
, and not a threat, demand or attempted bribe.
Back to the subject at hand. Part of the problem of all this sexual perversion is money. So we assume that some corporate money maker would spend big buck to make his very own sex toy out of some poor unfortunate without a SIN. If I was a corporation with plans to rise to the top. One of things on my to-do list would be a psych evaluation of anybody hitting middle management. People willing to spend big bucks on delta grade sex toys would get flagged. The corporations are not going to let a self obsessive person in a position to create a bad PR moment.
Dr. Evil
"Scary ain't it"
Dr. Evil
"Scary ain't it"
QUOTE (thedafan @ Mar 15 2008, 01:18 PM)
Back to the subject at hand. Part of the problem of all this sexual perversion is money. So we assume that some corporate money maker would spend big buck to make his very own sex toy out of some poor unfortunate without a SIN. If I was a corporation with plans to rise to the top. One of things on my to-do list would be a psych evaluation of anybody hitting middle management. People willing to spend big bucks on delta grade sex toys would get flagged. The corporations are not going to let a self obsessive person in a position to create a bad PR moment.
Dr. Evil
"Scary ain't it"
Dr. Evil
"Scary ain't it"
Right. Which is why no one with any money, power, influence, or all three has any secret (or less-than-secret) perversions in real life, either! The last thing a game all about dystopian oppression needs is crazy guys and perverts running the show, right?!
QUOTE
One litmus test of your post could be: Is it written such that you could stand before a judge in the United States and not feel (that because you were in a discussion with a 14 year old) that you may be going to prison for your post?
Then just close this thread.
Or don't post anything that violates the terms of conduct.
Much easier, I guess...
Much easier, I guess...
QUOTE (thedafan @ Mar 15 2008, 12:18 PM)
Back to the subject at hand. Part of the problem of all this sexual perversion is money. So we assume that some corporate money maker would spend big buck to make his very own sex toy out of some poor unfortunate without a SIN. If I was a corporation with plans to rise to the top. One of things on my to-do list would be a psych evaluation of anybody hitting middle management. People willing to spend big bucks on delta grade sex toys would get flagged. The corporations are not going to let a self obsessive person in a position to create a bad PR moment.
Dr. Evil
"Scary ain't it"
Dr. Evil
"Scary ain't it"
Actually my cyberkitty was all standard grade 'ware and it was only a little more expensive than a good sports car (Eurowind 3K). My upgraded kitty was a tad more expensive and it doubled as a bodyguard. My SuperKitty ™ is even more expensive, but she'd be a right terror to face in combat.
QUOTE (DreadPirateKitten @ Mar 15 2008, 08:22 AM)
I think its time to make the cyberkitty. I'll get to work
My kitty is already done. Do you use Daegaan's SR4 character generator? If so then I can email you the file of cyberkitty™, cyberkitty+™, and Super CyberKitty™ .
QUOTE (hermit @ Mar 15 2008, 12:32 PM)
Then just close this thread.
The following excerpts are from the second book I randomly pulled from an American public high school 9th grade summer reading list, deemed appropriate for 14 years olds.
[ Spoiler ]
Given that this has the American 9th grader seal of approval I suppose we can use it as a guideline.
Most prominent is the lack of the words penis and vagina, or even euphemisms for the same, though it certainly describes sexual penetration. The lack of clinical terms or equivalent euphemisms is interesting and it could, perhaps, be the necessary component to maintain supposed appropriateness.
Though this is a bit odd when juxtoposed with the clinical nature of ninth grade health and sexual education textbooks.
QUOTE (thedafan @ Mar 15 2008, 01:18 PM)
Back to the subject at hand. Part of the problem of all this sexual perversion is money. So we assume that some corporate money maker would spend big buck to make his very own sex toy out of some poor unfortunate without a SIN. If I was a corporation with plans to rise to the top. One of things on my to-do list would be a psych evaluation of anybody hitting middle management. People willing to spend big bucks on delta grade sex toys would get flagged. The corporations are not going to let a self obsessive person in a position to create a bad PR moment.
Dr. Evil
"Scary ain't it"
Dr. Evil
"Scary ain't it"
I think I said "Mr. Important Yakuza dude" but I can only imagine some corporate muckity muck blackmailing so and so before "firing" him.
Nathanross wrote in the other thread
Um spirits can canonically feel pain, and are not immune to the orgasm spell. thus can feel sexual pleasure. Why wouldn't they want that?
QUOTE
That just seems kind of boring. I mean, if the spirit isn't also wanting for it, then it's just a glorified sex-doll. And why would spirits want to have sex? There is no need for them to reproduce to perpetuate their genes, they are immortal! They also lack a nervous system, so really what can give them pleasure?
Um spirits can canonically feel pain, and are not immune to the orgasm spell. thus can feel sexual pleasure. Why wouldn't they want that?
Okay, I'm really confused why the previous thread was closed. It was my understanding that while sex talk for the sake of sex talk was not okay, anything relative to the Sixth world is okay. Could The Dunner please state what thread was the offender? Otherwise we have no idea what is wrong.
Also, the whole 14 year old rule is just plain impossible. It also involves far too much subjective judgment. I personally think that if I had a 14 year old child (even a son), I would encourage him to read about tentacle sex with organs, but hey that is just me. It is also hard to recall exactly the level of sexual perversion I had been exposed to at that age or should have been exposed to.
I was very happy with the previous thread because I believed it was an acknowledgment to the maturity of DS readers and posters. I am also happy that SR4 has totally given up the kiddy gloves and even references Bunraku metahuman sex-dolls in the Core book. I do not think that material is really something a "pure" 14yo should handle, but that's the way it is.
Instead of saying no sexual references, we need a more solid line drawn as to what is appropriate and what is not. Do you draw the line at sixth world sexual narrative? Is there a certain limit to the perversion that can be presented in this narrative? You must define these things since in the end, where the limit is drawn is relative to the moderator's subjective judgment.
EDIT - No matter how much we separate the Sixth world from our own, everything we present is relative to our own. It is impossible to talk only about sexuality in the sixth world without making reference to sexuality (and sexual perversion) in our own. This should be acknowledged.
I know they can feel pain, and I must admit, I didn't realize they could experience orgasm (even through the spell) due to lack of a central nervous system or brain. I always assumed the "pleasure" a spirit feels is due to something different than humans feel. We feel sexual pleasure because our genetics want to provide incentive for us to reproduce. Since spirits cannot reproduce, why would they receive sexual pleasure from sex?
Also, the whole 14 year old rule is just plain impossible. It also involves far too much subjective judgment. I personally think that if I had a 14 year old child (even a son), I would encourage him to read about tentacle sex with organs, but hey that is just me. It is also hard to recall exactly the level of sexual perversion I had been exposed to at that age or should have been exposed to.
I was very happy with the previous thread because I believed it was an acknowledgment to the maturity of DS readers and posters. I am also happy that SR4 has totally given up the kiddy gloves and even references Bunraku metahuman sex-dolls in the Core book. I do not think that material is really something a "pure" 14yo should handle, but that's the way it is.
Instead of saying no sexual references, we need a more solid line drawn as to what is appropriate and what is not. Do you draw the line at sixth world sexual narrative? Is there a certain limit to the perversion that can be presented in this narrative? You must define these things since in the end, where the limit is drawn is relative to the moderator's subjective judgment.
EDIT - No matter how much we separate the Sixth world from our own, everything we present is relative to our own. It is impossible to talk only about sexuality in the sixth world without making reference to sexuality (and sexual perversion) in our own. This should be acknowledged.
QUOTE (Kremlin KOA @ Mar 15 2008, 03:59 PM)
Um spirits can canonically feel pain, and are not immune to the orgasm spell. thus can feel sexual pleasure. Why wouldn't they want that?
I know they can feel pain, and I must admit, I didn't realize they could experience orgasm (even through the spell) due to lack of a central nervous system or brain. I always assumed the "pleasure" a spirit feels is due to something different than humans feel. We feel sexual pleasure because our genetics want to provide incentive for us to reproduce. Since spirits cannot reproduce, why would they receive sexual pleasure from sex?
My group actualy discussed a new type of Bunkraku system, recently..
Name your sexual fantasy. Catgirls? Little kids? Naja Daviar (with improved Brown-nipple Action)? Mini-Dunklezahn? No problem. We can create anything you desire. And it's all real. no Pfixes, no Cyberware. It is, however a magical construct, so please, Keep your new playthings away from any wards, and keep the pendant it wearts on it's neck at all times.
-after taking the sicko's nuyen and specifications, the mage goes to the back room-
Hey, Mike, grab another stray kitten, will ya?
---
Shapechange + Sustaning focus = NUYEN!
BTW, about Dragons:
Dunklezahn's always been open-minded enough to ignore the Dragon/Metahuman mating taboo, Just look at Ryan Mercury!
Not to mention the Dunkie/Damien Knight Slash fic I wrote once..
"It was only 60 seconds, but What a ride!"
Name your sexual fantasy. Catgirls? Little kids? Naja Daviar (with improved Brown-nipple Action)? Mini-Dunklezahn? No problem. We can create anything you desire. And it's all real. no Pfixes, no Cyberware. It is, however a magical construct, so please, Keep your new playthings away from any wards, and keep the pendant it wearts on it's neck at all times.
-after taking the sicko's nuyen and specifications, the mage goes to the back room-
Hey, Mike, grab another stray kitten, will ya?
---
Shapechange + Sustaning focus = NUYEN!
BTW, about Dragons:
Dunklezahn's always been open-minded enough to ignore the Dragon/Metahuman mating taboo, Just look at Ryan Mercury!
Not to mention the Dunkie/Damien Knight Slash fic I wrote once..
"It was only 60 seconds, but What a ride!"
QUOTE (Muskie @ Mar 15 2008, 04:43 PM)
BTW, about Dragons:
Dunklezahn's always been open-minded enough to ignore the Dragon/Metahuman mating taboo, Just look at Ryan Mercury!
Not to mention the Dunkie/Damien Knight Slash fic I wrote once..
"It was only 60 seconds, but What a ride!"
Dunklezahn's always been open-minded enough to ignore the Dragon/Metahuman mating taboo, Just look at Ryan Mercury!
Not to mention the Dunkie/Damien Knight Slash fic I wrote once..
"It was only 60 seconds, but What a ride!"
That's a little bit crazy don't you think? I don't see EITHER one of those people being the submissive partner to ANYONE! These two people are very domineering... think about it, one's a DRAGON, do you think he'd be submissive to anybody? Damien Knight... he runs one of the biggest mega corps out there! He plays second fiddle to NO ONE!@nathanross: I agree with you 100%, we're talking about a game where KILLING PEOPLE IS FUN AND PROFITABLE! 14 year olds who play Shadowrun are either more mature, or they go to another game... like Pokemon (may it rest in Hell), or Yu-Gi-Oh.
This ventures a bit off topic, since it's discussing moderation practices. Having said that, it's not a Moderator post, it's addressing a question that was posed. Hopefully none of the other mods will mind.
There was a 1964 US Supreme Court case, presided upon by Potter Stewart. In it, he discussed the issue of hard core pornography. The famous quote from his opinion on the case was that pornography was hard to define, but that "I know it when I see it." I like to think I'm a fairly smart guy, but I also strongly suspect that Justice Stewart was a much smarter guy. I don't think I'd be comfortable trying to define a hard-fast line when he couldn't.
As moderator actions are intended as private actions between the moderation team and the user in question, I cannot disclose which posting(s) were at issue. However, I can propose a hard and fast rule for your own reference:
If you do NOT know what the "average" person considers to be hard-core pornography when you see it, then do NOT post about sexual topics on dumpshock. You won't get a warning that way.
If you're not comfortable with that, or if you want to try and push the borders, then you will eventually step across them. When that happens, you will get warnings. Warnings can lead to suspensions and bans. We don't like issuing warnings. We discuss them fairly extensively before we issue them. We really don't like giving suspensions, those go through an extensive review process. We really HATE giving bans. However, if a user earns any of those, they will receive them.
QUOTE (nathanross @ Mar 15 2008, 04:15 PM)
Okay, I'm really confused why the previous thread was closed. It was my understanding that while sex talk for the sake of sex talk was not okay, anything relative to the Sixth world is okay. Could The Dunner please state what thread was the offender? Otherwise we have no idea what is wrong.
There was a 1964 US Supreme Court case, presided upon by Potter Stewart. In it, he discussed the issue of hard core pornography. The famous quote from his opinion on the case was that pornography was hard to define, but that "I know it when I see it." I like to think I'm a fairly smart guy, but I also strongly suspect that Justice Stewart was a much smarter guy. I don't think I'd be comfortable trying to define a hard-fast line when he couldn't.
As moderator actions are intended as private actions between the moderation team and the user in question, I cannot disclose which posting(s) were at issue. However, I can propose a hard and fast rule for your own reference:
If you do NOT know what the "average" person considers to be hard-core pornography when you see it, then do NOT post about sexual topics on dumpshock. You won't get a warning that way.
If you're not comfortable with that, or if you want to try and push the borders, then you will eventually step across them. When that happens, you will get warnings. Warnings can lead to suspensions and bans. We don't like issuing warnings. We discuss them fairly extensively before we issue them. We really don't like giving suspensions, those go through an extensive review process. We really HATE giving bans. However, if a user earns any of those, they will receive them.
Can you post a link to said Dukie on Knight fic? Sounds great!
In a previous iteration of SR, I had a Shaman that used the Shapechange spell alot. Originally used to "sneak" into places for the team.
Later he used to change his form and his sexual partner's form into different non humanoid forms. But we never did get into specific details on what actually happened. The gaming group was all over 30, we did not need the specific details.
@KCKitsune
I agree but that "appears" to be a US only view of violence and sexual materials, ie it is ok for show violence, female hygiene products, but condoms and sexual materials of a more than brief shots is a No No. But that gets into politics etc area which is off limits in the TOS.
WMS
Later he used to change his form and his sexual partner's form into different non humanoid forms. But we never did get into specific details on what actually happened. The gaming group was all over 30, we did not need the specific details.
@KCKitsune
I agree but that "appears" to be a US only view of violence and sexual materials, ie it is ok for show violence, female hygiene products, but condoms and sexual materials of a more than brief shots is a No No. But that gets into politics etc area which is off limits in the TOS.
WMS
I'm not gonna link it! that stuff's what got the topic locked last time!
But I'll give you a link in an IM, of you want.
Yes, Mr. Knight is a domineering type, being a corp CEO.. but Dunkie's still a dwaggie
To those who want a synopsis (with all the explicit stuff removed of course):
New years, 2057. A shadowrunning team is hired to shadow dunkie. He comes out of his hotel in a different humaniform than usual (though the team's shammy confirms) and heads towards the Ares Tower. Knight and Dunkie meet up, discuss a couple of things, and get to the sexins, while the team's rigger gets his drones to record every sordid little detail, much to the chagrin of everyone watching! After the fun, Dunkie hands Knight a letter, with the proviso that it is opened "at the appropriate time" (see, he's already planning to die! ), and leaves. The Troll rigger, in an opposing building, wipes himself down and sticks a copy of the file into his deck.
I think i'm gonna write an adventure based around the Super Tuesday module.. Dunkie finds out and sends runners after the tridfile before it's posted all over KSAF n.n
But I'll give you a link in an IM, of you want.
Yes, Mr. Knight is a domineering type, being a corp CEO.. but Dunkie's still a dwaggie
To those who want a synopsis (with all the explicit stuff removed of course):
New years, 2057. A shadowrunning team is hired to shadow dunkie. He comes out of his hotel in a different humaniform than usual (though the team's shammy confirms) and heads towards the Ares Tower. Knight and Dunkie meet up, discuss a couple of things, and get to the sexins, while the team's rigger gets his drones to record every sordid little detail, much to the chagrin of everyone watching!
After the fun, Dunkie hands Knight a letter, with the proviso that it is opened "at the appropriate time" (see, he's already planning to die! ), and leaves. The Troll rigger, in an opposing building, wipes himself down and sticks a copy of the file into his deck. I think i'm gonna write an adventure based around the Super Tuesday module.. Dunkie finds out and sends runners after the tridfile before it's posted all over KSAF n.n
QUOTE (KCKitsune @ Mar 16 2008, 07:35 AM)
That's a little bit crazy don't you think? I don't see EITHER one of those people being the submissive partner to ANYONE! These two people are very domineering... think about it, one's a DRAGON, do you think he'd be submissive to anybody? Damien Knight... he runs one of the biggest mega corps out there! He plays second fiddle to NO ONE!@nathanross: I agree with you 100%, we're talking about a game where KILLING PEOPLE IS FUN AND PROFITABLE! 14 year olds who play Shadowrun are either more mature, or they go to another game... like Pokemon (may it rest in Hell), or Yu-Gi-Oh.
1: there is such a thing as a sexual relationship of equals, and gauy people can have them too
2: Umm Damien got where he is BECAUSE of Dunkelzahn. that is canon, if it was not for the dragon David Gavilan would died poor and alone, and never would have renamed himself Damien Knight
QUOTE (Kremlin KOA @ Mar 16 2008, 03:33 AM)
2: Umm Damien got where he is BECAUSE of Dunkelzahn. that is canon, if it was not for the dragon David Gavilan would died poor and alone, and never would have renamed himself Damien Knight
Where's that from?
i wouldn't say that's quite accurate, but it is (to my understanding) canon that damien knight was only able to do the whole nanosecond buyout because of dunkelzahn giving him a hand.
QUOTE (Fuchs @ Mar 16 2008, 11:38 AM)
Where's that from?
Portfolio of a dragon: Dunkelzahn's secrets
Dunk's will points out that he was the secret partner in the nanosecond buyout
QUOTE (KCKitsune @ Mar 15 2008, 05:35 PM)
That's a little bit crazy don't you think? I don't see EITHER one of those people being the submissive partner to ANYONE! These two people are very domineering... think about it, one's a DRAGON, do you think he'd be submissive to anybody? Damien Knight... he runs one of the biggest mega corps out there! He plays second fiddle to NO ONE!AHAHAHAHAHA, Kremlin KOA totally beat me to the punch. It is so sad that I can totally go for their relationship. I'd love to see the news coverage after Dunkie's funeral when that footage is released. That Rigger would be rolling in the dough!
QUOTE (the_dunner @ Mar 15 2008, 05:38 PM)
If you do NOT know what the "average" person considers to be hard-core pornography when you see it, then do NOT post about sexual topics on dumpshock. You won't get a warning that way.
If you're not comfortable with that, or if you want to try and push the borders, then you will eventually step across them. When that happens, you will get warnings. Warnings can lead to suspensions and bans. We don't like issuing warnings. We discuss them fairly extensively before we issue them. We really don't like giving suspensions, those go through an extensive review process. We really HATE giving bans. However, if a user earns any of those, they will receive them.
If you're not comfortable with that, or if you want to try and push the borders, then you will eventually step across them. When that happens, you will get warnings. Warnings can lead to suspensions and bans. We don't like issuing warnings. We discuss them fairly extensively before we issue them. We really don't like giving suspensions, those go through an extensive review process. We really HATE giving bans. However, if a user earns any of those, they will receive them.
While it is unreasonable for me to ask for a line to be drawn, or that because you can't specifically draw one, refute your argument that there is a line there, saying "Hardcore Porn" is not enough guidance to know what you feel is appropriate.
I look at porn this way Swimsuit < Softcore (nudity) < Hardcore (penetration/sex) < The great abyss of perversion.
Now, it may have started with cyber porn/simsense, but we very quickly fell into the abyss. I specifically tested the waters when I started talking about how to use Bioware to fit Trolls inside of dwarves and how to enlarge holes. I found this fairly visual even to my perverse self, and that is why I specifically asked to tell me if it was too much. I received no such warning and you did not seem to have any issues with discussions of snuff or gore porn/sex fetishes in the sixth world and I really don't see what can go past that. If there is please tell me, I am always willing to push my horizons.
QUOTE (Kremlin KOA @ Mar 15 2008, 09:33 PM)
1: there is such a thing as a sexual relationship of equals, and gauy people can have them too
2: Umm Damien got where he is BECAUSE of Dunkelzahn. that is canon, if it was not for the dragon David Gavilan would died poor and alone, and never would have renamed himself Damien Knight
2: Umm Damien got where he is BECAUSE of Dunkelzahn. that is canon, if it was not for the dragon David Gavilan would died poor and alone, and never would have renamed himself Damien Knight
Would a greater dragon as old as ol' Dunkelzahn really feel equal to any human? He might have respect for them, but having sexual relations with one... sorry I don't see that. It seems to be a trend where people have normally straight people having homosexual relations.
As for Damien, sure he might be where he is because of ol' Dunk, but really, that's too much. If anyone has supporting evidence then I'll admit I'm wrong and apologize.
Normally straight? He's a dragon, ffs
QUOTE (nathanross @ Mar 16 2008, 12:12 PM)
AHAHAHAHAHA, Kremlin KOA totally beat me to the punch. It is so sad that I can totally go for their relationship. I'd love to see the news coverage after Dunkie's funeral when that footage is released. That Rigger would be rolling in the dough!
right until Nadja authorizes the hit, then one of my wetwork sammies will be rolling in dough.
QUOTE (Muskie @ Mar 15 2008, 11:51 PM)
Normally straight? He's a dragon, ffs
Muskie, is there source information about dragon sexual practices? If so which book so I read up and not make myself look stupid. If they have that in a book then I can see what else they have so I can understand SR Dragons better.
QUOTE (the_dunner @ Mar 15 2008, 05:38 PM)
This ventures a bit off topic, since it's discussing moderation practices. Having said that, it's not a Moderator post, it's addressing a question that was posed. Hopefully none of the other mods will mind.
There was a 1964 US Supreme Court case, presided upon by Potter Stewart. In it, he discussed the issue of hard core pornography. The famous quote from his opinion on the case was that pornography was hard to define, but that "I know it when I see it." I like to think I'm a fairly smart guy, but I also strongly suspect that Justice Stewart was a much smarter guy. I don't think I'd be comfortable trying to define a hard-fast line when he couldn't.
There was a 1964 US Supreme Court case, presided upon by Potter Stewart. In it, he discussed the issue of hard core pornography. The famous quote from his opinion on the case was that pornography was hard to define, but that "I know it when I see it." I like to think I'm a fairly smart guy, but I also strongly suspect that Justice Stewart was a much smarter guy. I don't think I'd be comfortable trying to define a hard-fast line when he couldn't.
Potter Stewart was wrong. If you can't define something then you don't know what it is. And Steward admitted he was wrong during Miller Vs California. Such a test is untenable.
Vague guidelines empower those who enforce them to alter their standards wildly between cases and make it extremely difficult, if not impossible, to remain within those ever-changing standards. Douglas pointed out, rightly so, that enforcement of such malleable and mutable standards violates to principal of fair warning since it is impossible to know if one is anywhere near violating those standards until it is already done.
Unlike Douglas and Stewart, I agree with the majority that the third prong of the Miller test is sufficiently specific to act as a guideline prior to publication. Unfortunately, we do not have anything like that here. We only have a bit of vague double-talk and a great deal of handwaving.
The use of secret tribunals under the auspices of protecting individual member's privacy does not help matters much. Not only does this violate every modern standard of jurisprudence and due processes, from notification and right of response (in fact, there is an engineered inability to present a response until the matter has been adjudicated) to the right of appeal, the lack of publicly published opinions also makes it impossible for any member to adequately understand the thought processes of the members of our beloved secret police.
For these reasons, I feel that the safest approach for members to take is to PM all posts tat you want to make to a moderator for approval before posting it on the boards, no matter how innocuous it might seem. It is always possible that some member of the staff will take offense to it. The only way to avoid this risk is to obtain prior approval before publication.
Dragons of the 6th World describes Dragon Life-cycles and sexual practices.
Both Earthdawn and SR have portrayed Hestaby as being looked down at by some of the other dragons for breaking the Dragon/Metahuman sexual taboo, but it seems that almost every dragon has done so, given that it IS to date, the only way drakes are created.
Both Earthdawn and SR have portrayed Hestaby as being looked down at by some of the other dragons for breaking the Dragon/Metahuman sexual taboo, but it seems that almost every dragon has done so, given that it IS to date, the only way drakes are created.
QUOTE (KCKitsune @ Mar 16 2008, 01:06 PM)
Muskie, is there source information about dragon sexual practices? If so which book so I read up and not make myself look stupid. If they have that in a book then I can see what else they have so I can understand SR Dragons better.
Okay start with Dragon's of the 6th world
Then go to Ancient History's site.
then download the free for all copy of Earthdawn 'Dragons' that fasa gave away when it closed
you will be enlightened
Or just take a clue from D&D - Dragons sleep with everything and everyone, based upon the amount of half-dragon/half-anything in game.
QUOTE (Muskie @ Mar 15 2008, 11:21 PM)
Both Earthdawn and SR have portrayed Hestaby as being looked down at by some of the other dragons for breaking the Dragon/Metahuman sexual taboo, but it seems that almost every dragon has done so, given that it IS to date, the only way drakes are created.
Woah! When did Hestaby get down? Is this referenced in Earthdawn or do I need to dive into the Ancient Files?
QUOTE (Muskie @ Mar 15 2008, 11:21 PM)
Dragons of the 6th World describes Dragon Life-cycles and sexual practices.
Both Earthdawn and SR have portrayed Hestaby as being looked down at by some of the other dragons for breaking the Dragon/Metahuman sexual taboo, but it seems that almost every dragon has done so, given that it IS to date, the only way drakes are created.
Both Earthdawn and SR have portrayed Hestaby as being looked down at by some of the other dragons for breaking the Dragon/Metahuman sexual taboo, but it seems that almost every dragon has done so, given that it IS to date, the only way drakes are created.
True Drakes are created by a complex blood magic ritual. Bred Drakes are created by True Drakes having sex with a metahuman. Dragon/Metahuman mating produces dragonkin, who appear to be long-lived and magically powerful metahumans.
Sorry for slightly off-topic, but this seems the appropriate place to ask.
I'm somewhat curious what everyone's take on rules for how good you are in bed would work. I would guess Agility+Gymnastics, with Body for your endurance. Maybe add your partners skill hits to your body test for how often you orgasm...
I'm somewhat curious what everyone's take on rules for how good you are in bed would work. I would guess Agility+Gymnastics, with Body for your endurance. Maybe add your partners skill hits to your body test for how often you orgasm...
QUOTE (hobgoblin @ Mar 15 2008, 11:29 AM)
ah, the joys if not being a US citizen
The French hate you slightly less.
QUOTE (Muspellsheimr @ Mar 16 2008, 05:26 AM)
Sorry for slightly off-topic, but this seems the appropriate place to ask.
I'm somewhat curious what everyone's take on rules for how good you are in bed would work. I would guess Agility+Gymnastics, with Body for your endurance. Maybe add your partners skill hits to your body test for how often you orgasm...
I'm somewhat curious what everyone's take on rules for how good you are in bed would work. I would guess Agility+Gymnastics, with Body for your endurance. Maybe add your partners skill hits to your body test for how often you orgasm...
Charisma, also. Your ability to read your partner.
QUOTE (Muspellsheimr @ Mar 16 2008, 06:26 AM)
I'm somewhat curious what everyone's take on rules for how good you are in bed would work. I would guess Agility+Gymnastics, with Body for your endurance. Maybe add your partners skill hits to your body test for how often you orgasm...
QUOTE (Knight takes Bishop @ Mar 16 2008, 06:32 AM)
Charisma, also. Your ability to read your partner.
Wow, this test is made for elves. Pornomancer Elves, ftw! Another thought, what effect does Wired Reflexes (or Initiative enchancement) have on sex?
"Holy Shit! This guy's a veritable machine! I'm not sure how long she's going to be able to handle it!"
Thanks for the replies - my new view is an Agility+Charisma test: Charisma for body-language & reading your partner, Agility for co-ordinating movements & your control & skill. For now, I'm still going to use Body hours for how long it lasts (approximately), and Body+(partner's hits) test for how often you come, unless someone has a better suggestion.
And of course elves are built for it. What did you expect? What else are they good for?
No real idea how to work wired into it, but it would have some kind of effect.
And of course elves are built for it. What did you expect? What else are they good for?
No real idea how to work wired into it, but it would have some kind of effect.
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