IPB

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

2 Pages V   1 2 >  
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> The 10k Nuyen Hacker, Hacking on the Cheap
HeySparky
post Mar 15 2008, 06:47 PM
Post #1


Neophyte Runner
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 2,077
Joined: 14-September 04
Member No.: 6,658



I've been scouring the forums for advice on building a Hacker on the cheap, but I've not had a lot of luck. If folks could point me at some useful topics that'd be great. Otherwise...

I'm building a low-rent hacker. My foes will be other unsophisticated (I hope) low-rent or non-hackers.

The constraints:

- Skills and skill groups capped at 3
- One single solitary program at Rating 6
- All other programs limited to Rating 3
- (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) 10,000 (no more than (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) 20,000, there's still cyber and other gear must-haves)

With those limitations I have the following questions...

- Should I spend the money on an R6 program? If so, what should that R6 program absolutely be? (related - is an R6 hacking program (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) 4,500 or (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) 6,000? I've never been clear on that)
- Skill Groups or Singletons with Specializations?
- How troublesome would Negative Qualities like Scorched and Sensitive Neural Structure be to the low-rent Hacker? Are they to be totally avoided or are they worth it for the BP elsewhere?
- This'll need to include the commlink. What should that be?
- Other stuff?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
ElFenrir
post Mar 15 2008, 07:48 PM
Post #2


Neophyte Runner
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 2,168
Joined: 15-April 05
From: Helsinki, Finland
Member No.: 7,337



Well, my limited hacker experience:

-If you have to, the Stealth program, im guessing might be your best bet. Used to be Sleaze back in the day.

-Well, if you want to juice it and the skills are capped at 3? I'd say singletons with the specializations is the way to go. It costs a bit more, but you could have the Cracking Group 3 for 30, or all 3(+2) for 42. It's quite a bit more expensive(12 points is a whole nother skill), but you can get more bang for your buck. Alternately, maybe pick 1 skill group to break down and then go for the rest in groups at a lower rating. Again, im not an expert, but Im guessing the Hacking skill should be the one you milk for all it's worth.

-From what i can tell, Scorched/Sensitive Neutral Structure were worth double to Riggers and Deckers in SR3 for a reason. They can mess your day up, especially if your Willpower isn't really high. Disadvantage? Sure, but these might end up more trouble than their worth.

-Commlinks are surprisingly affordable, so i guess go with the best one with OS that your limited money can buy..AND still afford programs.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
KCKitsune
post Mar 15 2008, 10:47 PM
Post #3


Neophyte Runner
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 2,188
Joined: 9-February 08
From: Boiling Springs
Member No.: 15,665



I would say Firewall would be at 6 because no matter what else you do, all your other programs are limited to your OS. Firewall is the sole exemption. Besides, if the bad guys can't crack your firewall you can always jackout, and run away to hack other day.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Jaid
post Mar 15 2008, 11:03 PM
Post #4


Great Dragon
*********

Group: Members
Posts: 7,089
Joined: 4-October 05
Member No.: 7,813



knowing a bit more about this than most people (i suppose) i'm going to make a few observations (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

- a commlink that can actually make use of a rating 6 program would need to have both a system and response of 6. the best you can get in those is, iirc, 4 (based on your availability/rating limitations). so i would say just go with rating 3 programs across the board, personally.

- i would agree that rating 6 firewall would not be a bad choice.

- you could get a rating 4 agent. mind you, that would suck in it's own way (specifically, the agent could probably almost outhack you, which has gotta feel kinda depressing) but it could be done. then again, that may be subject to GM smackdown (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

- i probably wouldn't take scorched/sensitive neural structure, personally. as it turns out, the GMs are pretty big on making sure your flaw does effect you, and not just by making you avoid stuff either. as such, they might feel obligated to put some nasty black IC in just to make sure your flaws count for something.

- skill groups all the way, unless you're interested in having skills at 2 with a specialisation. the GMs aren't happy with you having a skill greater than 4, and that apparently also means you shouldn't have a skill with a specialisation that would make you roll more dice in that specialisation than a skill of 4 would. the *real* question is whether you take the cracking skill group, or if you want to have your hacking skill at 4 or not.

- buy a stock commlink. do-it-yourself has an availability. purchased commlinks do not.

good luck (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
nathanross
post Mar 15 2008, 11:06 PM
Post #5


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 811
Joined: 30-January 07
From: Portland, OR
Member No.: 10,845



I'd love to help, but first I'd like to know a few things:
  1. Is this an NPC you are creating so that the runners have someone they can hire?
  2. Or is it a substandard PC hacker?
  3. How many BP are you looking to spend?
  4. Or do you just want to know their pools?

As for straight stats, the since everything is going to be 3 (including Response and System), the only program that can run at 6 and not be limited by Response is Firewall. All other programs will have to be at 3.

So I'm saying Novatech Airware (Response 3/Signal 3) with Iris Orb OS (Firewall 3/System 3) with all basic programs at 3 and your choice of hacking apps at 3. Also, special Firewall software (Rating 6).

I must say that this is not a hacker I want to count on (6DP for all hacking skills). Even an 8DP hacker can be made with primarily Street Sammy skillset and ware. I expect more along the line of 9DP+ from a PC hacker, though I guess that makes the GM's firewall ratings go up pretty quick!

Let me know what else you need.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
HeySparky
post Mar 15 2008, 11:55 PM
Post #6


Neophyte Runner
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 2,077
Joined: 14-September 04
Member No.: 6,658



Thanks for the replies, all. They're helping me get my head around this.

It's a 350bp hacker (for the DITG campaign, as some have surmised - which means Resources are at a premium).

I was hoping to upgrade the comm IC so that whatever the R6 program was would be a nice ace in the hole, growing as the comm got better. But, Firewall 6 sounds like a good option. Not sure if I want to spend my one-and-only-R6/A12-item on it though (houserule for chargen).

Might be that a hacker/construction-worker-gone-ganger (the PC concept) is spreading too thin - basically a hybrid hacker/street sam.

If a well-rounded 6DP hacker is too gimped to bother with, what about a focused hacker? Rigging, EW, etc? Really drill down in one area. Thoughts? Suggestions?


EDIT: Most DITG PCs are 310 bp, but I got extra for work on the game's wiki... just in case anyone wondered.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Jaid
post Mar 16 2008, 12:35 AM
Post #7


Great Dragon
*********

Group: Members
Posts: 7,089
Joined: 4-October 05
Member No.: 7,813



well, first off, DP 6 is pretty lousy for a shadowrunner hacker, it's true, but should be fine for DitG.

secondly, you can bump that to DP 8 if you grab yourself some hotsim capabilities. you can boost your rigging DP by taking either a control rig (used would be 5k nuyen, .6 essence) or by picking up codeslinger(control device) and remote controlling stuff. if you remote control stuff, you can also specialise in remote controlling stuff for the pilot skills, which makes things a little cheaper (no really, it's a valid specialisation of every single pilot skill except exotic vehicles, apparently).

additionally, you could use a command 4 program, which would make your DP for remote control skill (probably 2 + 2 for specialising) + command program (4) + 2 (hotsim) + 2 (codeslinger) for a total of 12, potentially... before you even consider the possibility of other bonuses like smartguns (which would have to be added later due to availability limitations i think).

but most importantly, 6-8 as your DP is perfectly fine for DitG games. it would be kinda weak for a regular game, but 12 is a monstrously high DP AFAICT for DitG. in fact, it's so high the GMs may hit it with a nerf bat, so use it sparingly (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
ElFenrir
post Mar 16 2008, 01:06 AM
Post #8


Neophyte Runner
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 2,168
Joined: 15-April 05
From: Helsinki, Finland
Member No.: 7,337



I just read the DitG guidelines; you seem to be allowed one skill at 4 according to the rules, and it doesn't seem that hard to reach 8+ DP even wtihout being cheap. An Agility 4+say, Pistols or Clubs 4(no spec, or a 2(+2), which, IMO, is not even cheese...add a smartlink(easily found cyberware even by the most bottom rung), or Reach and thats 9-10, very easily, non cheesily come by dice. (heck, even someone with Clubs 3 and Agility 5...DitG seems to keep a 200 BP limit on Attributes despite lowered starting BP, showing raw potential im guessing) tosses 8 dice without reach.

So having one good hacking skill of 4 might just be ok, with a program of 7, thats 7 dice and even in a low power campaign that isn't alot. Im not trying to break your character or anything, im just saying 7-8 does seem reasonable and you can come by it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
HeySparky
post Mar 16 2008, 01:11 AM
Post #9


Neophyte Runner
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 2,077
Joined: 14-September 04
Member No.: 6,658



Industrial Mechanic is the skill I took at 4. To be able to 'rebuild' the wrecked HQ. I may drop it to 3, since that's still pretty good.

Smartlink is Availability 8, so it'd have to be the one special item. Not sure if it's special enough.

I've probably been aiming a bit too high, though, in general. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Jaid
post Mar 16 2008, 01:26 AM
Post #10


Great Dragon
*********

Group: Members
Posts: 7,089
Joined: 4-October 05
Member No.: 7,813



just a side note sparky, you may want to check in with the GMs to make sure industrial mechanics is indeed the way to go (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

they seem to be on top of things, but i'd hate to lead you astray on that...

on a side note, do you have arsenal? if not there's a few things in there you should probably know about, particularly relating to new drones (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
HeySparky
post Mar 16 2008, 01:29 AM
Post #11


Neophyte Runner
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 2,077
Joined: 14-September 04
Member No.: 6,658



I have Arsenal, I haven't had time to sink my teeth in. Page numbers?

I've pinged Vegas on the Industrial Mechanic being the right mechanical skill for constructions. It makes sense when you look at the specializations, Structural, Plumbing and the like.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Jaid
post Mar 16 2008, 01:57 AM
Post #12


Great Dragon
*********

Group: Members
Posts: 7,089
Joined: 4-October 05
Member No.: 7,813



QUOTE (ES_Sparky @ Mar 15 2008, 09:29 PM) *
I have Arsenal, I haven't had time to sink my teeth in. Page numbers?

mesametric beaver, page 122 + used vehicle rules, page 104 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Eyeless Blond
post Mar 16 2008, 02:35 AM
Post #13


Decker on the Threshold
******

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 2,922
Joined: 14-March 04
Member No.: 6,156



On a side note, you can get Common programs up to the max rating 4--Drip certainly is, as he's likely going more hacker than rigger--so there is the possibility of using a Response 4 commlink. Response 5-6 is pretty much out, however.

A Firewall of 6 would be helpful for your character, but honestly if I were you I'd go Control Rig, if you're a rigging-type. Having the necessary dice to keep your drones/vehicles from crashing is more important than the (in this campaign anyway) lesser risk of being hacked. A Rating 2 agent acting as IC might not go awry, however.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Eyeless Blond
post Mar 16 2008, 02:41 AM
Post #14


Decker on the Threshold
******

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 2,922
Joined: 14-March 04
Member No.: 6,156



Oh, and aren't we limited to 310 BP?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Eyeless Blond
post Mar 16 2008, 02:44 AM
Post #15


Decker on the Threshold
******

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 2,922
Joined: 14-March 04
Member No.: 6,156



And if you think it'd be better you can just take the Mechanic skill group, the Electronics skill group, and the Armorer skill like I'm planning; that's pretty much every possible construction-related active skill. It would absolutely have to be one of those. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
HeySparky
post Mar 16 2008, 02:44 AM
Post #16


Neophyte Runner
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 2,077
Joined: 14-September 04
Member No.: 6,658



I got bonus BP for building the DitG wiki. And that wouldn't be better for my concept, he's strapped for points as it is.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Jaid
post Mar 16 2008, 02:46 AM
Post #17


Great Dragon
*********

Group: Members
Posts: 7,089
Joined: 4-October 05
Member No.: 7,813



QUOTE (Eyeless Blond @ Mar 15 2008, 10:44 PM) *
And if you think it'd be better you can just take the Mechanic skill group, the Electronics skill group, and the Armorer skill like I'm planning; that's pretty much every possible construction-related active skill. It would absolutely have to be one of those. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

artisan:construction (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Eyeless Blond
post Mar 16 2008, 03:18 AM
Post #18


Decker on the Threshold
******

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 2,922
Joined: 14-March 04
Member No.: 6,156



Our ganger hideout is going to be a modern art sculpture?

COOL! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
HeySparky
post Mar 16 2008, 09:03 PM
Post #19


Neophyte Runner
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 2,077
Joined: 14-September 04
Member No.: 6,658



LOL Artisan(Construction) ... Frank Gehry lives. I think you just half-named my PC, JAID.


Back to the topic:

Thanks all for the input. Greatly appreciated. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Jaid
post Mar 17 2008, 12:46 AM
Post #20


Great Dragon
*********

Group: Members
Posts: 7,089
Joined: 4-October 05
Member No.: 7,813



personally i'm rooting for habitat '67 in trailer form... for your reference: linky

now come on, admit it... now you've seen it, it's tempting you =P
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Siege
post Mar 17 2008, 01:24 AM
Post #21


Dragon
********

Group: Members
Posts: 4,065
Joined: 16-January 03
From: Fayetteville, NC
Member No.: 3,916



Maybe it's the Spitzer scandal or the "Sexual Oddities" thread, but I kept reading the title of this thread all wrong. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

-Siege
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Eyeless Blond
post Mar 17 2008, 02:09 AM
Post #22


Decker on the Threshold
******

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 2,922
Joined: 14-March 04
Member No.: 6,156



QUOTE (Jaid @ Mar 16 2008, 04:46 PM) *
personally i'm rooting for habitat '67 in trailer form... for your reference: linky

now come on, admit it... now you've seen it, it's tempting you =P

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/eek.gif) Oh that's hilarious! Oh it's too bad we're going all dark and serious; I'd love to see something like a three-story trailer treehouse.

That reminds me, someone's gonna have to take a few points in Artisan(Tagging). (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Jaid
post Mar 17 2008, 02:35 AM
Post #23


Great Dragon
*********

Group: Members
Posts: 7,089
Joined: 4-October 05
Member No.: 7,813



QUOTE (Eyeless Blond @ Mar 16 2008, 10:09 PM) *
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/eek.gif) Oh that's hilarious! Oh it's too bad we're going all dark and serious; I'd love to see something like a three-story trailer treehouse.

That reminds me, someone's gonna have to take a few points in Artisan(Tagging). (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)


well, now that a number of areas have probably been leveled/burnt to the ground, maybe you can build one if you're quick to get in before anyone else =P

[edit] and also, i'm pretty sure there's at least 2-3 people who can tag well. [/edit]
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Whipstitch
post Mar 17 2008, 08:44 PM
Post #24


Runner
******

Group: Members
Posts: 2,883
Joined: 16-December 06
Member No.: 10,386



Sparky-- I'd say go with the highest rating Agent you can afford and then try to pile some points into Edge. I mean, yeah, it sucks that your Agent will be able to rival you in some areas in AR, but it's still *your* Agent, and with a big pile of Edge plus VR/Hotsim bonuses, you could still very easily outperform it in a pinch. Seriously, Edge was practically tailor made for the Matrix-- it's the one area where you can really pile on some bonuses that programs and fancy IC can't even hope to match. It really is those moments of brilliance, sheer concentration and innovation that seperate the Fast Jacks from the script kiddies in SR4-- being able to just push your brain into an extra gear or having a so-crazy-it-just-might-work epiphany can easily matter more than raw machine-like efficiency, and with a dirt poor barrens kid it's about the only advantage you can hope for.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Eyeless Blond
post Mar 17 2008, 09:13 PM
Post #25


Decker on the Threshold
******

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 2,922
Joined: 14-March 04
Member No.: 6,156



Problem there is that the highest rating Agent you can get for Availability 6 is rating 2. And good thing too (sorta); a rating 4 Agent costs 10k all by itself!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

2 Pages V   1 2 >
Reply to this topicStart new topic

 



RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 28th May 2024 - 05:39 PM

Topps, Inc has sole ownership of the names, logo, artwork, marks, photographs, sounds, audio, video and/or any proprietary material used in connection with the game Shadowrun. Topps, Inc has granted permission to the Dumpshock Forums to use such names, logos, artwork, marks and/or any proprietary materials for promotional and informational purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not affiliated with the Dumpshock Forums in any official capacity whatsoever.