I've been scouring the forums for advice on building a Hacker on the cheap, but I've not had a lot of luck. If folks could point me at some useful topics that'd be great. Otherwise...

I'm building a low-rent hacker. My foes will be other unsophisticated (I hope) low-rent or non-hackers.

The constraints:

- Skills and skill groups capped at 3
- One single solitary program at Rating 6
- All other programs limited to Rating 3
- 10,000 (no more than 20,000, there's still cyber and other gear must-haves)

With those limitations I have the following questions...

- Should I spend the money on an R6 program? If so, what should that R6 program absolutely be? (related - is an R6 hacking program 4,500 or 6,000? I've never been clear on that)
- Skill Groups or Singletons with Specializations?
- How troublesome would Negative Qualities like Scorched and Sensitive Neural Structure be to the low-rent Hacker? Are they to be totally avoided or are they worth it for the BP elsewhere?
- This'll need to include the commlink. What should that be?
- Other stuff?

Well, my limited hacker experience:

-If you have to, the Stealth program, im guessing might be your best bet. Used to be Sleaze back in the day.

-Well, if you want to juice it and the skills are capped at 3? I'd say singletons with the specializations is the way to go. It costs a bit more, but you could have the Cracking Group 3 for 30, or all 3(+2) for 42. It's quite a bit more expensive(12 points is a whole nother skill), but you can get more bang for your buck. Alternately, maybe pick 1 skill group to break down and then go for the rest in groups at a lower rating. Again, im not an expert, but Im guessing the Hacking skill should be the one you milk for all it's worth.

-From what i can tell, Scorched/Sensitive Neutral Structure were worth double to Riggers and Deckers in SR3 for a reason. They can mess your day up, especially if your Willpower isn't really high. Disadvantage? Sure, but these might end up more trouble than their worth.

-Commlinks are surprisingly affordable, so i guess go with the best one with OS that your limited money can buy..AND still afford programs.

I would say Firewall would be at 6 because no matter what else you do, all your other programs are limited to your OS. Firewall is the sole exemption. Besides, if the bad guys can't crack your firewall you can always jackout, and run away to hack other day.

knowing a bit more about this than most people (i suppose) i'm going to make a few observations

- a commlink that can actually make use of a rating 6 program would need to have both a system and response of 6. the best you can get in those is, iirc, 4 (based on your availability/rating limitations). so i would say just go with rating 3 programs across the board, personally.

- i would agree that rating 6 firewall would not be a bad choice.

- you could get a rating 4 agent. mind you, that would suck in it's own way (specifically, the agent could probably almost outhack you, which has gotta feel kinda depressing) but it could be done. then again, that may be subject to GM smackdown

- i probably wouldn't take scorched/sensitive neural structure, personally. as it turns out, the GMs are pretty big on making sure your flaw does effect you, and not just by making you avoid stuff either. as such, they might feel obligated to put some nasty black IC in just to make sure your flaws count for something.

- skill groups all the way, unless you're interested in having skills at 2 with a specialisation. the GMs aren't happy with you having a skill greater than 4, and that apparently also means you shouldn't have a skill with a specialisation that would make you roll more dice in that specialisation than a skill of 4 would. the *real* question is whether you take the cracking skill group, or if you want to have your hacking skill at 4 or not.

- buy a stock commlink. do-it-yourself has an availability. purchased commlinks do not.

good luck

I'd love to help, but first I'd like to know a few things:

1. Is this an NPC you are creating so that the runners have someone they can hire?
2. Or is it a substandard PC hacker?
3. How many BP are you looking to spend?
4. Or do you just want to know their pools?

As for straight stats, the since everything is going to be 3 (including Response and System), the only program that can run at 6 and not be limited by Response is Firewall. All other programs will have to be at 3.

So I'm saying Novatech Airware (Response 3/Signal 3) with Iris Orb OS (Firewall 3/System 3) with all basic programs at 3 and your choice of hacking apps at 3. Also, special Firewall software (Rating 6).

I must say that this is not a hacker I want to count on (6DP for all hacking skills). Even an 8DP hacker can be made with primarily Street Sammy skillset and ware. I expect more along the line of 9DP+ from a PC hacker, though I guess that makes the GM's firewall ratings go up pretty quick!

Let me know what else you need.

Thanks for the replies, all. They're helping me get my head around this.

It's a 350bp hacker (for the DITG campaign, as some have surmised - which means Resources are at a premium).

I was hoping to upgrade the comm IC so that whatever the R6 program was would be a nice ace in the hole, growing as the comm got better. But, Firewall 6 sounds like a good option. Not sure if I want to spend my one-and-only-R6/A12-item on it though (houserule for chargen).

Might be that a hacker/construction-worker-gone-ganger (the PC concept) is spreading too thin - basically a hybrid hacker/street sam.

If a well-rounded 6DP hacker is too gimped to bother with, what about a focused hacker? Rigging, EW, etc? Really drill down in one area. Thoughts? Suggestions?


EDIT: Most DITG PCs are 310 bp, but I got extra for work on the game's wiki... just in case anyone wondered.

well, first off, DP 6 is pretty lousy for a shadowrunner hacker, it's true, but should be fine for DitG.

secondly, you can bump that to DP 8 if you grab yourself some hotsim capabilities. you can boost your rigging DP by taking either a control rig (used would be 5k nuyen, .6 essence) or by picking up codeslinger(control device) and remote controlling stuff. if you remote control stuff, you can also specialise in remote controlling stuff for the pilot skills, which makes things a little cheaper (no really, it's a valid specialisation of every single pilot skill except exotic vehicles, apparently).

additionally, you could use a command 4 program, which would make your DP for remote control skill (probably 2 + 2 for specialising) + command program (4) + 2 (hotsim) + 2 (codeslinger) for a total of 12, potentially... before you even consider the possibility of other bonuses like smartguns (which would have to be added later due to availability limitations i think).

but most importantly, 6-8 as your DP is perfectly fine for DitG games. it would be kinda weak for a regular game, but 12 is a monstrously high DP AFAICT for DitG. in fact, it's so high the GMs may hit it with a nerf bat, so use it sparingly

I just read the DitG guidelines; you seem to be allowed one skill at 4 according to the rules, and it doesn't seem that hard to reach 8+ DP even wtihout being cheap. An Agility 4+say, Pistols or Clubs 4(no spec, or a 2(+2), which, IMO, is not even cheese...add a smartlink(easily found cyberware even by the most bottom rung), or Reach and thats 9-10, very easily, non cheesily come by dice. (heck, even someone with Clubs 3 and Agility 5...DitG seems to keep a 200 BP limit on Attributes despite lowered starting BP, showing raw potential im guessing) tosses 8 dice without reach.

So having one good hacking skill of 4 might just be ok, with a program of 7, thats 7 dice and even in a low power campaign that isn't alot. Im not trying to break your character or anything, im just saying 7-8 does seem reasonable and you can come by it.

Industrial Mechanic is the skill I took at 4. To be able to 'rebuild' the wrecked HQ. I may drop it to 3, since that's still pretty good.

Smartlink is Availability 8, so it'd have to be the one special item. Not sure if it's special enough.

I've probably been aiming a bit too high, though, in general.

just a side note sparky, you may want to check in with the GMs to make sure industrial mechanics is indeed the way to go

they seem to be on top of things, but i'd hate to lead you astray on that...

on a side note, do you have arsenal? if not there's a few things in there you should probably know about, particularly relating to new drones

I have Arsenal, I haven't had time to sink my teeth in. Page numbers?

I've pinged Vegas on the Industrial Mechanic being the right mechanical skill for constructions. It makes sense when you look at the specializations, Structural, Plumbing and the like.

mesametric beaver, page 122 + used vehicle rules, page 104

On a side note, you can get Common programs up to the max rating 4--Drip certainly is, as he's likely going more hacker than rigger--so there is the possibility of using a Response 4 commlink. Response 5-6 is pretty much out, however.

A Firewall of 6 would be helpful for your character, but honestly if I were you I'd go Control Rig, if you're a rigging-type. Having the necessary dice to keep your drones/vehicles from crashing is more important than the (in this campaign anyway) lesser risk of being hacked. A Rating 2 agent acting as IC might not go awry, however.

Oh, and aren't we limited to 310 BP?

And if you think it'd be better you can just take the Mechanic skill group, the Electronics skill group, and the Armorer skill like I'm planning; that's pretty much every possible construction-related active skill. It would absolutely have to be one of those.

I got bonus BP for building the DitG wiki. And that wouldn't be better for my concept, he's strapped for points as it is.

artisan:construction

Our ganger hideout is going to be a modern art sculpture?

COOL!

LOL Artisan(Construction) ... Frank Gehry lives. I think you just half-named my PC, JAID.


Back to the topic:

Thanks all for the input. Greatly appreciated.

personally i'm rooting for habitat '67 in trailer form... for your reference: linky

now come on, admit it... now you've seen it, it's tempting you =P

Maybe it's the Spitzer scandal or the "Sexual Oddities" thread, but I kept reading the title of this thread all wrong.

-Siege

Oh that's hilarious! Oh it's too bad we're going all dark and serious; I'd love to see something like a three-story trailer treehouse.

That reminds me, someone's gonna have to take a few points in Artisan(Tagging).

well, now that a number of areas have probably been leveled/burnt to the ground, maybe you can build one if you're quick to get in before anyone else =P

[edit] and also, i'm pretty sure there's at least 2-3 people who can tag well. [/edit]

Sparky-- I'd say go with the highest rating Agent you can afford and then try to pile some points into Edge. I mean, yeah, it sucks that your Agent will be able to rival you in some areas in AR, but it's still *your* Agent, and with a big pile of Edge plus VR/Hotsim bonuses, you could still very easily outperform it in a pinch. Seriously, Edge was practically tailor made for the Matrix-- it's the one area where you can really pile on some bonuses that programs and fancy IC can't even hope to match. It really is those moments of brilliance, sheer concentration and innovation that seperate the Fast Jacks from the script kiddies in SR4-- being able to just push your brain into an extra gear or having a so-crazy-it-just-might-work epiphany can easily matter more than raw machine-like efficiency, and with a dirt poor barrens kid it's about the only advantage you can hope for.

Problem there is that the highest rating Agent you can get for Availability 6 is rating 2. And good thing too (sorta); a rating 4 Agent costs 10k all by itself!

Technomancer.

They're disallowed at the moment for Down in the Gutter.

if you want to post your build (as well as what you want it to do) we could always tweak it somewhat =P

though of course, it's important to not overly tweak it, or else it'll get nixed =S

I still say the best use of your rating 6 program is Firewall. It's the only thing that will not be gimped by the low Response of your commlink.

well, it's important to realise that the compromise to not having rating 6 programs is that neither does the other side

really, he doesn't *need* firewall 6, because defensive programs (firewall 4 + analyse 4) are so much more readily available than offensive programs at similar ratings (ie, hacking programs are all limited to rating 3 pretty much, whereas the defensive programs are mostly legal and can be had cheaply at rating 4).

but that's just my opinion...

If you're allowed a single Rating 6 program but still have to pay for it in nuyen I'd strongly consider Analyze or Biofeedback Filters. They're both common use programs so they'd only cost 600 as opposed to the 6,000 for a hacking program plus they're both insanely useful. Analyze is used for your Matrix Perception pool while Biofeedback Filters could easily save your life in DITG, a setting where the +2 Hotsim bonus could easily represent something like a quarter of your total dicepool.

If you do go with Hacking programs, I'd go with Attack. I mean, yeah, it's not glamorous, but it's kinda hard to sneak through a system undetected by the SR4 rules in a lot of cases, and at least with the Attack program you get both a higher dicepool AND a higher Cyber Combat DV while still affecting both IC and Icons. Besides, in DITG I could easily see you defending PANs as often as you infiltrate opposing networks, or even having a 'trix showdown with another gang's top Hacker to save face. You could use a High Noon Old West Reality Filter and everything.

[EDIT] Oops. I forgot, Biofeedback Filters are a Hacking program. Still worth considering, although in that case I'd probably take Stealth, Analyze, Attack or Exploit first.

um, problem there is that your non-Firewall program will be limited to your System, which is limited to Response, which are both limited to 4 under these rules. Nah, your best bet is to leave the Rating 6/Availability 12 item for something other than the commlink/program area--say a Control Rig (Availability for a rigger or an Encephalon (Availability for a hacker--unless you *really* need that Firewall because you're just that paranoid, or if you really wanted to blow the wad on an Agent.