Riggers and Remote Operations, Remote-crontrolling a turret with your mind uses... Agility? Options

[Fortune]

It saves him money at chargen as well, since you only have to buy one copy of each Agent, Autosoft, Program, pretty much anything but Pilot, and then crack them for all your drones/vehicles/electronics.

A good Rigger needs hacking skills in SR4. That is part and parcel of what constitutes rigging. It isn't just about driving and flying and non-computer electronics anymore. The Rigger has to know computer and hacking skills in order to excel in his field.

[Nightwalker450]

It saves him money at chargen as well, since you only have to buy one copy of each Agent, Autosoft, Program, pretty much anything but Pilot, and then crack them for all your drones/vehicles/electronics.

I've yet to crack an Agent/Pilot, or Firewall, or System... Mainly because of the special aspects of these programs, and the Agent -> Agent Smith issue. Waiting for Unwired before I even try to get by with this. I'd like to crack firewall's and systems to provide to everything but they are so essential to the matrix that I've thought cracking them could break any chance of a hacker having any chance against us. That and we also play that each individual copy needs to be cracked, so I can't crack a program once and distribute it all over. Maybe I've been playing too nice with my GM, but he dislikes the Matrix enough already so I try not to give him more reasons. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[hermit]

Apologies, I should have been clearer. Please allow me to rephrase my post:
"I'm just going to note that in all the characters that I've seen come and go on Dumpshock in 3 years, I have yet to see anyone but a rigger modifying their vehicle's Matrix Ratings."

Considering how hacking is a deadly everyday threat, it would make damn sense for anyone security-conscious to do so. then again, most players seemingly ignore the wifi matrix' implications, and most GMs don't wat to piss off their players by mking them feel those, it seems. I know SR4 players who do exactly that, though, for safety (response 5/firewall 6 and agents with analyse 6 are pretty standard in one group I know).

That and we also play that each individual copy needs to be cracked, so I can't crack a program once and distribute it all over.

Uhm ... it doesn't? I've assumed that ...

[Nightwalker450]

Considering how hacking is a deadly everyday threat, it would make damn sense for anyone security-conscious to do so. then again, most players seemingly ignore the wifi matrix' implications, and most GMs don't wat to piss off their players by mking them feel those, it seems. I know SR4 players who do exactly that, though, for safety (response 5/firewall 6 and agents with analyse 6 are pretty standard in one group I know).

My standard for non-hackers is 4's across the board (Novatech set IIRC), upgrade the firewall to 6, and analyze of 4. Agent is only needed to run maintenance scans, the firewall and analyze by themself will scan for anyone attempting to hack into your system. So everyone rolls 10 dice to detect a hacker, and if he's fast hacking in that's each round to beat a rating 6 firewall (or 12 w/ Admin if the hacker plans on accomplishing anything).

It's not just a good idea, it increases your chance of survival. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[hermit]

Exactly, all the more with Analyse AND an agent with analyse scanning, becuase that's two times ten dice to evade every round if you plan to hack that link.

[Nightwalker450]

Exactly, all the more with Analyse AND an agent with analyse scanning, becuase that's two times ten dice to evade every round if you plan to hack that link.

The agent won't be helping with anything until they actually enter the node. Only the system can tell if its being hacked. Once the hacker is in, then the agents security will help. Once the hacker is in the system won't usually make any checks against the hacker unless he does something outside of normal operations.

[hermit]

Ah,. okay. Still makes sense, I guess. Maybe have two agents run, if it's not a dedicated rigger/decker commlink.

[Jaid]

Considering how hacking is a deadly everyday threat, it would make damn sense for anyone security-conscious to do so. then again, most players seemingly ignore the wifi matrix' implications, and most GMs don't wat to piss off their players by mking them feel those, it seems. I know SR4 players who do exactly that, though, for safety (response 5/firewall 6 and agents with analyse 6 are pretty standard in one group I know).

see, this is probably a part of the reason you have a problem with how riggers work. this particular example shows that you have misunderstood some fairly important parts of the rules.

1) your analyse program is capped by system (or in this case, the agent's pilot rating which acts as system) and thus is limited to 4 (the agent's chargen cap).

2) response 5 does nothing for you in this case, pretty much. if you're not running a lot of programs or running a system of 5 (which you aren't, since the agent is the system you're using, and it has a 4 max) it's just wasted money.

as far as having 2 agents run, that is going to be a pretty brutal resource drain on the commlink. if you want 2 programs each only, that's still gonna be 6 total, which means you're probably losing some response, and in any case those agents will only be throwing 8 dice... enough to seriously challenge a hacker/rigger throwing around 12+ dice? probably not.

[hermit]

I am neither talking about starter characters nor characters so dirt poor they cannot afford some 15K for the maxed-out all-6 commlink. It would take two to three runs - no injuries and more than one run per month assumed, as is the case in most groups I know) - to get that money together.

And the way I understand it, the chargen caps DON'T apply after chargen, do they.

For a rigger character, getting a decent commlink is the first thing to do (decent in that case meaning maxed out, because it's so cheap and useful), the way I see it. Then you ought to max out response in your vehicles and install the best ice and agents you can afford, to have some chance against hack attacks. THEN you can try and drive the drones.

Hot Sim also requires a decent biofeedback filter program, though.

[Fortune]

Analyze is still capped by Response, which is capped by System (Pilot). In your description, you stated that it was standard practice for the 'group you know' to run Analyze 6 on Response 5 (and unspecified Pilot rating) vehicles, which is one of the points Jaid was trying to make.

Firewall is the only thing not capped by anything (except available nuyen).

[hermit]

Uhm .. then it would be analyse 5. Might be I confused things with their maxed-out links, though.

Isn't firewall capped by double system value (and maximum level 6)?

[Fortune]

Maximum listed so far is 6, but higher-rated military Firewalls are mentioned.

As to 'double system value', that is something I am not familiar with, but Firewalls are not capped by anything. It is quite okay according to canon to have a Device with a Rating of 1 and a Firewall of 6.

Does the maximum program rating limited by the System rating apply to Firewall? Can you have a node with a Firewall rating higher than System rating?

That limitation only applies to regular software (common use and hacking programs), not the Firewall.

[hermit]

Okay ... you sure? I have been explained differently, and apparently, German and English rules differ too, somewhat. And military firewalls can have ratings above six ... that's good to know. kind of helps a bit keeping all those DP18+ starter character TMs out of one's brain.

[Ryu]

Firewall is a software-based matrix attribute, the limit is on programs instead of all software. That part can be confusing.

[Fortune]

Yeah, I'm sure. We've been through it here with Synner and Frank and all the gang (and even Rob at one point if I recall correctly) a few times. Firewall is a special type of software that is not affected by the ratings of either the device or the system/pilot/whatever the way normal Programs are. It is not even listed in the Program section of the book. This little tidbit goes a long way toward helping to protect your electronic 'protectables'. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[hermit]

That's a nice rules back door to at least help non-TMs protect against that starter technomancer character (Resonance 6) with his stealth CF (threaded) of 12, +2 codeslinger, a channeled sprite for +4 and +4 Hot Sim/VR boni (and all the stuff I keep forgetting). Of course, you still have to come by a rating 16 firewall somehow - and you can only pray the mancer critter messes up it's rolls and you get to restart your link in time. You still have zero chances if you try anything else.

[Jaid]

18 DP is a little bit on the extreme side for a chargen TM, i'd say. doable (especially if you're crazy and you blow precious BP on preregistered sprites at high ratings) but probably still a bit extreme. for one thing, a lot of people seem to go with resonance 5 (i usually try to hit resonance 6 and just buy enough CFs to make up the difference in karma:BP ratio myself, but it doesn't seem to be all that common). for another thing, most people won't want to risk threading both their exploit and their stealth up to 12 (which appears to be what you're assuming hermit?) (yes, it's possible, but it's risky, they're likely to take some damage, and they're going to lose some DP to sustaining modifiers if they do unless they start using up registered sprite services).

in any case, keeping a TM out of something isn't all that horrifically impossible. giving something firewall 6 and analyse 6 (assuming this is a target for a run, not something limited by chargen caps) that's a dicepool of 12. average of 4 hits per turn, 3 turns average to spot the proposed technomancer. assuming the TM is going for admin, if the TM rolls poorly and the system rolls well, that could quite easily result in the TM getting spotted even with 'only' rating 6 programs opposing him.

of course, the simplest way to keep TMs out is to require physical insertion to get to anything valuable, since the TM will have a lot harder time getting into a facility physically. all you have to do is put wifi inhibiting paint strong enough to keep the corporate system's broadcasting from getting through, and the TM can't hack it (because interacting with stuff in the matrix requires 2-way communication).

[DreadPirateKitte...]

For rigging, let me ask a question:

Is there any use to the encephalon for the majority of rigging? or are you going to be using program + response or program + sensor, or sensor + skill all the time, making your logic attribute close to unneeded?

[Jaid]

For rigging, let me ask a question:

Is there any use to the encephalon for the majority of rigging? or are you going to be using program + response or program + sensor, or sensor + skill all the time, making your logic attribute close to unneeded?

certain skills are logic-linked, but only the hacking/spoofing things, and the computer things. mostly the logic-linked skills are secondary or tertiary to the rigger's job, not so much the main thing.

[hermit]

An Attention coprocessor, on the other hand, really is worth something.

[Eyeless Blond]

Oh, and what about Smartlinks? If you're jumped into a drone, what do you need so you can make use of the smartlink weapon mod? Implanted eyeware? Are you using your "meat" eyes to look through the guncam? If so, can you use a smartlink mod on goggles to remote-Smartlink the gun? Or do you not need any special 'ware now, just the modded gun?

[hermit]

A‚ smartlink component in the drone's sensors should do, I think.

[Jaid]

A‚ smartlink component in the drone's sensors should do, I think.

provided, of course, the drone has a camera installed into which you could put a smartlink, i agree completely (bearing in mind that the image link is provided by the sim module which you would have to be running in order to be able to jump into the drone in the first place... otherwise you would also need an image link attached to your eyes (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) )