How can I make the Barrens dangerous again?, Without resorting to random encounters... Options

[Siege]

Check out your players and decide what would pose a challenge to them - my gear freak almost always had a stash of supplies on hand for almost anything, so challenging me with no food resources wouldn't be a major issue.

For a PC who has nothing but guns, ammo and CLP - this might be more problematic.

Likewise, if your players aren't the kind to really put any deal of thought into environmental hazards, I wouldn't suggest turning the game into "Urban Survival 101" - it would border on insisting the players role-play forensic accounting. Fascinating stuff, to be sure...to the right person.

-Siege

[Fortune]

...how many PCs really purchase Ration Bars & Survival kits with purification tabs with their starting resources or before a run?

You're kidding, right? At least 80% of all the character sheets I have ever seen (including all of my own) contain these at chargen.

[Spike]

The idea is that you're a professional criminal, though, not some dingus who freaked out and killed a guy with a tire iron and now has no idea what to do. You've got a safehouse in the Barrens maybe, or in a low-security part of town (that's not the Barrens but is only marginally better), you use the side entrance to the Street Doc's clinic (he's a vet, actually, and manually overwrites the security video for the side door after you leave). Your bloody clothes are sterilized, Sterilized, burned, Fashioned, replaced with vending machine flats, or all of the above.

Ideally? Yes. Most players don't want to think about that sort of thing. Have you ever asked them how they regularly get assault rifles and shotguns (much less the occasional assault CANNON) out of, and back into, their house without drawing attention to it? Have your runners regularly stocked changes of clothes to wear after the run?


Then again, most Shadowrun players (even on Dumpshock) seem to be mistaken about what a Safehouse actually is, so...



All those problems I just asked about? Neatly solved just by living in the barrens. Yes, other problems arise. But as you say, the characters are shadowrunners, not dingus's with tire irons. And in the barrens that makes them the big fish. Outside? the corps (including Lonestar) are the big fish, and at least one (LS...) has a vested interest in gobbling them up.

[DocTaotsu]

Fortune= That officially makes you smarter than 5 out of the 6 people at my table. The 6th guy only remembered because his character is a survival nut. oh well, one "your character is getting hungry" and I'm sure they'll shape up (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Chrysalis]

The idea is that you're a professional criminal, though, not some dingus who freaked out and killed a guy with a tire iron and now has no idea what to do. You've got a safehouse in the Barrens maybe, or in a low-security part of town (that's not the Barrens but is only marginally better), you use the side entrance to the Street Doc's clinic (he's a vet, actually, and manually overwrites the security video for the side door after you leave). Your bloody clothes are sterilized, Sterilized, burned, Fashioned, replaced with vending machine flats, or all of the above.

Being a professional is about being paid money for doing a job. That job could be taken a weapon of opportunity and beating that target to death. Everything else is surrounding yourself with trappings.

[Arethusa]

Ideally? Yes. Most players don't want to think about that sort of thing. Have you ever asked them how they regularly get assault rifles and shotguns (much less the occasional assault CANNON) out of, and back into, their house without drawing attention to it? Have your runners regularly stocked changes of clothes to wear after the run?

Depends on the group. Some people want action movies. Some people want realistic games, which tend to be much more detailed and much more depressing and difficult. So long as everyone understands what game they're in, either can work.

All those problems I just asked about? Neatly solved just by living in the barrens. Yes, other problems arise. But as you say, the characters are shadowrunners, not dingus's with tire irons. And in the barrens that makes them the big fish. Outside? the corps (including Lonestar) are the big fish, and at least one (LS...) has a vested interest in gobbling them up.

Uh... Yeah, living in these places is not the safest thing. Driving through Baghdad is very dangerous. Living in Baghdad is far, far, far worse. Same goes for Mogadishu, Woodlawn, the Barrens, whatever.

[Spike]

Uh... Yeah, living in these places is not the safest thing. Driving through Baghdad is very dangerous. Living in Baghdad is far, far, far worse. Same goes for Mogadishu, Woodlawn, the Barrens, whatever.

I've been to Baghdad. While I, personally, wouldn't want to walk the streets there, that is less because it is generically dangerous and more because I specifically do not fit in.


For Shadowrunners, who are SINless, its another matter. Many will have come from the Barrens, using shadowruns as their ticket to a better life, others are deliberately SINless, which may mean they are hiding. Either way, if I was willing to toss aside everything in my life, I feel reasonably comfortable with the idea of disappearing into, say, Baghdad. The biggest obstacle is language, followed shortly by culture and lastly by contacts. Runners shouldn't have to worry about any of those in the barrens... particularly if they are made with an idea towards living there.


I should point out that the closest the real world has towards shadowrunners are the old school freelance terrorists (Carlos the jackal, for example). A LOT of that crowd got busted because they tried to live it up between and on jobs, staying in nice hotels and the like. If they'd stuck to roach infested shitholes they'd remain undetected.

In Shadowrun, SINner-ville is the nice hotels. The Barrens is where you go so the powers what be have to work to get to you, to even find you.

[DocTaotsu]

I got back to the favela analogy. If you live there, know your neighbors, have paid your local gang dues, and respect the "rules" as unwritten. Living in some areas of the Barrens should be manageably dangerous. If roll into the Barrens in your souped up City Master and try to set up shop in a random building, things will probably get ugly.

Blending is your friend (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[b1ffov3rfl0w]

Ideally? Yes. Most players don't want to think about that sort of thing. Have you ever asked them how they regularly get assault rifles and shotguns (much less the occasional assault CANNON) out of, and back into, their house without drawing attention to it? Have your runners regularly stocked changes of clothes to wear after the run?

I figure a lot of that stuff needs to be part of early (as in chargen) discussion with the GM. After all, it's the characters who are master criminals, not the players, so you shouldn't really be all "aha! Since you didn't say otherwise, you've left a trail of bloody footprints from the server room all the way to your house". Changes of clothes could be less of a problem with Fashion and vending machine flats.

Then again, most Shadowrun players (even on Dumpshock) seem to be mistaken about what a Safehouse actually is, so...

All those problems I just asked about? Neatly solved just by living in the barrens. Yes, other problems arise. But as you say, the characters are shadowrunners, not dingus's with tire irons. And in the barrens that makes them the big fish. Outside? the corps (including Lonestar) are the big fish, and at least one (LS...) has a vested interest in gobbling them up.

Yeah, there are benefits but also drawbacks, the main one being that you live in an incredibly unpleasant neighborhood. Really, unless you're actually on the run, or can't afford to live somewhere non-crappy, why would you do it?

Also was there a thread on how safehouses work in SR? Because IRL they're not exactly something you rent by the day or would have a Knowledge skill about.

[b1ffov3rfl0w]

Being a professional is about being paid money for doing a job. That job could be taken a weapon of opportunity and beating that target to death. Everything else is surrounding yourself with trappings.

Okay, technically "professional" can mean simply that you get paid, but I think we generally use it to mean a certain level of planning, competence, and, well, professionalism. As in "okay, I'm getting paid to go beat that guy to death with whatever is handy. How do I make sure that I, you know, survive and don't have the cops showing up at my place before I get there?".

Or "professional" as in "Why the frag are you wandering around covered with blood? You're supposed to be a professional!"

[Spike]

Yeah, Dumpshockers aren't the only ones who don't always get it with 'safehouses'.

Though I suppose a knowledge skill could cover knowledge about safehousing in general, rather than 'where to find me some'... which is much more reasonable.


The way I view it is this: If you ran a gambling operation in Florida, you have to choices: Run it illegally, or put it on a boat and move three miles out to sea and do it legally.

Yes, you CAN make money doing it illegally on land. You'll also get arrested eventually. Just get the damn boat already.


Ditto Shadowrunners; Yeah they CAN operaten in SINnerVille, but eventually its gonna bite them in the ass. Just bite the bullet and set up a doss in the Barrens. Pay your dues, make sure to keep your rep dangerous enough to discourage harrassment, and don't think of it as 'inconvientently dangerous' think of it as 'relaxingly removed from paranoia over getting caught being an illegal cyborg with a fake SIN'.

[Crusher Bob]

...how many PCs really purchase Ration Bars & Survival kits with purification tabs with their starting resources or before a run?

Nah, we just make sure we have a shapeshifter on the team. If we every get peckish we can eat their flesh and drink their blood. Since it'll all grow back in a couple of seconds, they won't mind. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif)

[Critias]

I should point out that the closest the real world has towards shadowrunners are the old school freelance terrorists (Carlos the jackal, for example). A LOT of that crowd got busted because they tried to live it up between and on jobs, staying in nice hotels and the like. If they'd stuck to roach infested shitholes they'd remain undetected.

Right, but then there's no point to being a world-class freelance terrorist/mercenary/assassin. What's the point in getting paid if you don't enjoy it?

"Slipping up" like that is perfectly in keeping with most characters, who are (after all) criminals. Criminals tend to be in it in the first place for the money. For all but the most monastically dedicated sort of perfectionists, there's just no point in not relaxing and living it up a little bit, and not living in a roach infested shithole.

[Serial_Peacemake...]

Well if I remember correctly the Jackal was essentially sold out by the country he and his wife ended up fleeing to as a political bargaining chip. Secondly my current group runs out of their Warehouse/Bunker/Distillery in the barrens. Its good to make sure you point out that the Barrens are screwed up. One trick is door to door twisted spirits trying to be invited in, and the gang you let camp out in a lobby getting wiped out for pissing of the wrong people. That and showing up the first day to find your place already broken into by a squatter, but to be fair she now runs the distillery side of things.

[Kyoto Kid]

You're kidding, right? At least 80% of all the character sheets I have ever seen (including all of my own) contain these at chargen.

...the only ones I've seen are my own characters'.

[DocTaotsu]

While there is something to be said for living it up and something to be said for living it down, I tend to think that the best place to live would be in some boring suburban enclave. I'm reminded of this prolific Armenian bank robber that robbed banks for upwards of two decades before he got caught (by dumb luck basically). He lived in a normal neighborhood, had a painfully moderate lifestyle, and planned everything to the T. When it came time for him to retire he could have pulled a quiet fade and been done with it. It's also impressive that he turned what is normally a losing proposition (robbing banks) into something that netted him quiet a retirement fund.

Of course he didn't take into account someone stumbling on a deep forest almost completed concealed stash. But those things happen.

[Lord Ben]

Well if I remember correctly the Jackal was essentially sold out by the country he and his wife ended up fleeing to as a political bargaining chip. Secondly my current group runs out of their Warehouse/Bunker/Distillery in the barrens. Its good to make sure you point out that the Barrens are screwed up. One trick is door to door twisted spirits trying to be invited in, and the gang you let camp out in a lobby getting wiped out for pissing of the wrong people. That and showing up the first day to find your place already broken into by a squatter, but to be fair she now runs the distillery side of things.

It's fine for your game, but in other games a distillery run in the barrens might only have electricity 50% of the time, and the water might not always run. And when it does you may not be keen on using it for brewing. Sometimes it's best to just assume the PC's safehouse has clean water and electricity, but not every GM thinks that way and you might suddenly have a 2000 tank of alchohol ruined because the electricity cut out at the wrong time.

[fool]

and again it depends on what part of the barrens you are in.
One of my favorite characters owned a strip club in the barrens and used it as her doss.
Certain parts of slums can be very nice. They're just surrounded by crap holes.

[Pyritefoolsgold]

It's fine for your game, but in other games a distillery run in the barrens might only have electricity 50% of the time, and the water might not always run. And when it does you may not be keen on using it for brewing. Sometimes it's best to just assume the PC's safehouse has clean water and electricity, but not every GM thinks that way and you might suddenly have a 2000 tank of alchohol ruined because the electricity cut out at the wrong time.

There are generators and water resevours and filters and illegal taps on the mainlines. If you have the cash, the respect of the locals, and a decent amount of personal badassery, you can live well damn near anywhere.

[Chrysalis]

I suspect the Barrens does not have either electricity nor running water, let alone garbage pickup, sanitation or mass transit.

[b1ffov3rfl0w]

If you are running a business somewhere with intermittent power and you don't have sufficient generator capacity you are basically asking for it. Also you don't really need electricity to distill booze, although it's probably a lot easier. You just need a way to heat liquid, really (Real Men use fire spirits). In GURPS there is a Distill spell (and also a Ferment spell).

[Drogos]

Hell, you don't see people in the Hills running wires out to thier stills in the woods. It's a wood fire that's really needed and then it just sits there. Bah, people not knowing their moonshining!!!!