Fake SINs, how powerful, really? Options

[Fortune]

I just figure that the normal everyday checks against the SIN are exactly that: checks against the SIN. Not against all SINs in all databases. Just a check to see that the information 'on tap' about that SIN matches the information provided by the person possessing that SIN, whether that info be in question form or biometrical in nature. This applies whether the SIN is real or fake. There is no need to do a more thorough search than this unless the person is actually a suspect, and probably already in custody. There is no need to check the data accompanying this specific SIN with that listed for every other SIN on the world, unless there was already a reason to do so.

[Fleming]

@Fortune: makes sense when you look at it like this. Would also answer the question about the border crossing with a 2nd fake SIN.

Yes, you could probably run a fingerprint, retinal scan and DNA test for every person coming through your checkpoint, but I'd assume that these things still take time. So, unless something heavy was going down (say, the death of an important political figure at the hands of a foreign assassin), they wouldn't look too thoroughly, because that would cause one hell of a holdup in your line.

So, the scanner at a guardpost or in a LS squad car will do, what? Compare the necessary biometric data between the person and the ID, see if the database has a match and then look no further.

*Hmmm, picture matches, print scans correctly, no outstanding warrants...* "Welcome to Bellevue Central Mall, Mr. Smith. Enjoy your visit."

However, that would mean that you need your REAL biometric data on your fake SIN. There'll probably be no need for a retinal scan and DNA sample when you buy sth at the stuffer shack, but if you come under more intense scrutiny, then the data had better match...

[Chrysalis]

A cop pulls you over for speeding, he asks for your registration and driver's license. He runs your license and registration through the vehicle's Mobile Data Terminal. The driver's license is not in the system and the car is registered under a different name. So now the cops asks you and your friends to step away from the vehicle. A search of your persons turns up several unlicensed firearms and a further search of the vehicle discovers further items which would indicate you have perpetrated a crime or are in the process of doing so.

So now not only do you have to pay a fine you are looking at doing some pretty hard time in the big house. All because you thought it was cool to drive around with a fake driver's license.

This scenario is not from 2070, but from 1998.

I would foresee that creating a SIN for it to pass even the barest of qualifications would demand creating or hijacking an account from the central database in Lausane Switzerland. So there would be two choices:

Either you have a student SIN which means you come from from a 3rd world country, similar to a student visa. So you can drive with your international license, but you are barred from taking out a loan, owning a cellphone and owning property.

The second method is identity theft, which would mean having access to the database or a blackmarket where SINs of people are traded and collected. Basically you are borrowing someone's identity, most likely there are 30-40 Bob Dobolinas using the same SIN as stolen identities are recycled, with more expensive ones the less users of it as the same time. Of course the only way you can verify that it is real is to be pulled over by the cops, so you can guess that most forgers will sell identities for a lot of money irrespective of how safe it is - After all, if you are looking at spending ten years in prison you are going to finger the forger when the detectives ask "So where did you get this ID from anyway?" In the off hand chance that you can spend some quality time together. Even more expensive is creating a completely new identity from birth certificate to Social Security Number - which is ultimately a genuine SIN which has you sharing DNA with yourself.

Natch.

[kzt]

Yes, you could probably run a fingerprint, retinal scan and DNA test for every person coming through your checkpoint, but I'd assume that these things still take time. So, unless something heavy was going down (say, the death of an important political figure at the hands of a foreign assassin), they wouldn't look too thoroughly, because that would cause one hell of a holdup in your line.

Except that SR computers and networks are insanely fast. They can brute force break encryption in seconds by cannon (which is going through trillions of trillions of possibilites), which means that searching through a few billion records takes less than a second. And actually ID databases are structured such that searches are much more effective and you search a small subset of the data for all the possible matches. Look at how fingerprints are encoded for electronic assess to see what I mean.

[kzt]

An interesting approach I saw today in the paper, by which you can get a genuine 100% good totally fake ID that will pass all the checks forever.

The US buys 3rd party security chips in Europe then sends them to Thailand to be assembled into passports. Really, I'm not making this up. You see, it's cheaper that way....

http://www.washingtontimes.com/apps/pbcs.d...mplate=printart

"The Times reported yesterday that the GPO chose two European computer chip makers over U.S. manufacturers to make tens of millions of electronic passports. The passports are being assembled in Thailand by one company that was a victim of Chinese economic espionage.

""If true, these allegations raised in today"s press reports are extremely serious not only to the integrity of our e-Passport program, but also to our national security," said Mr. Dingell, chairman of the Committee on Energy and Commerce. "

[BlueMax]

Except that SR computers and networks are insanely fast. They can brute force break encryption in seconds by cannon (which is going through trillions of trillions of possibilites), which means that searching through a few billion records takes less than a second. And actually ID databases are structured such that searches are much more effective and you search a small subset of the data for all the possible matches. Look at how fingerprints are encoded for electronic assess to see what I mean.

Thats the logic loop my brain got caught in.

CODE

Uber Fast Computers --\ Uber Fast Databases --\
Fast Invalid databases?
Uber Fast Computer --/ Super Cracking --/

But then I found out the Game Designers did a great job and wrote that out of the way.

[Fleming]

Except that SR computers and networks are insanely fast. They can brute force break encryption in seconds by cannon (which is going through trillions of trillions of possibilites), which means that searching through a few billion records takes less than a second. And actually ID databases are structured such that searches are much more effective and you search a small subset of the data for all the possible matches. Look at how fingerprints are encoded for electronic assess to see what I mean.

That might be, but in this case, having a fake SIN for daily use (as opposed to for emergency situations, like a fast getaway) would be impossible.

You’d HAVE to connect your own biometric data to the fake SIN, or you’d be busted the instant anyone takes your fingerprint. And if you have a criminal SIN – which includes any previous fake SIN that was ever busted, since the system would automatically make a criminal SIN with the same data – the system would find it and alert security.

If you ever left a hair or a print at any scene of a run, the Universal Database Search, or UDS, would find it the next time you use your fake SIN, and alert security.

If you have more than one fake SIN, the UDS would turn up ALL your SINs the second you use one of them and… well, alert security.

That might be realistic, but it won’t make for great gameplay.

[Fuchs]

I just handwave it, on the level of ca. mid-20th century fake passports, ever since I asked myself how you can rent a place using a fake SIN with your own biometric data, and not have it discovered once you use a fake SIN with your data on a run.

Much easier to just say "it's fake, and how good a fake runs from 1-6+", like the game rules.

[cryptoknight]

I have a fake SIN. I cross the border into the NAN. I commit several murders in the NAN for which the cops get DNA samples (In how I think shadowrun normally works they'd run the samples, get the first fake SIN, and then issue an arrest warrant), I go to leave the NAN working at a border crossing with a second fake SIN.

In the NAN, they'd probably just ritually magic you six ways from sunday.