 Dikoted blades...how?, Where do I find the cost for dikoting? |
  |
 Dec 6 2003, 08:22 AM
Post
#1
|
|
|
Target  Group: Members Posts: 25 Joined: 4-November 03 From: Bellingham Member No.: 5,791  |
Sorry- I looked everywhere and my incompetence has rendered me unable to find the rules for the costs and stuff for dikoting blades. where do i find these rules? I wanna dikote my katana! :|
|
 |
 
|
|
Dec 6 2003, 08:23 AM
Post
#2
|
|
|
Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
It's in the Chemistry chapter of Man & Machine. Just look in the index for the page number.
|
|
|
|
|
Dec 7 2003, 05:35 AM
Post
#3
|
|
|
Target Group: Members Posts: 6 Joined: 20-October 03 Member No.: 5,747 |
Has this come up in anyone elses games? Dikoting seems uber... who WOULDN'T want it?
theo |
|
|
|
|
Dec 7 2003, 05:40 AM
Post
#4
|
|
|
Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
The characters who struggle just to make the next payment on their Low Lifestyle.
|
|
|
|
|
Dec 7 2003, 05:46 AM
Post
#5
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 596 Joined: 18-February 03 Member No.: 4,112 |
Really, dikoting anything larger than a knife is prohibatively expensive for any character that starts off with resources C or less (or equivalent).
On that note, has anyone ever made a chart that gives the general surface area of weapons and blades? |
|
|
|
|
Dec 7 2003, 06:46 AM
Post
#6
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 203 Joined: 3-April 03 Member No.: 4,370 |
remember, the process for dikoting requires the object to be in a chamber, so you'll have to pay for the cost of the tang (that's the part that the handle is built around, right?) as well as the blade.
|
|
|
|
|
Dec 7 2003, 09:42 AM
Post
#7
|
|||
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 608 Joined: 9-July 02 From: California Member No.: 2,955 |
The poor, the stupid, the "sacred blade" type ninja fools, and anyone who kills people with something made of wood and / or involving gunpowder. A lot of people! |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Dec 7 2003, 09:43 AM
Post
#8
|
|
|
Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,156 Joined: 15-March 03 From: Fresno, CalFree Member No.: 4,252 |
Don't forget the people who don't kill anyone at all!
|
|
|
|
|
Dec 7 2003, 09:45 AM
Post
#9
|
|
|
Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
The people who want to be able to lose a knife now and then without losing a ¥1,000+ investment.
~J |
|
|
|
|
Dec 7 2003, 12:42 PM
Post
#10
|
|||
|
Chrome to the Core Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,152 Joined: 14-October 03 From: ::1 Member No.: 5,715 |
And having to pay a ridiculous street index... |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Dec 7 2003, 01:50 PM
Post
#11
|
|||||
|
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,428 Joined: 9-June 02 Member No.: 2,860 |
Considering the length of time involved in using the canon dikoted process (like less than a micron per hour; it's been surpassed by faster deposition methods in RL), and the expense of the equipment, if you were getting dikoting through "non-standard" channels, anyone who let your equipment into the factory to disrupt processing schedules... No, the street index is not ridiculous. It's appropriate for the process involved. However, the base price is too high. Per square meter, not per 100cm^2, would be more reasonable. |
||||
|
|
|
||||
|
Dec 8 2003, 05:21 PM
Post
#12
|
|
|
Genuine Artificial Intelligence Group: Members Posts: 4,019 Joined: 12-June 03 Member No.: 4,715 |
Yes, it is uber. It's really, really cool. It gives huge game-mechanical advantages to bladed weapons. The only reason that it isn't slathered all over everything is the extreme cost. I've seen a few instances on these boards where people don't understand the relation between m^2 and cm^2. To di-kote a square meter, that is 100 times the per 100cm^2 cost. 100,000 :nuyen: for a dikoted square meter. Yikes. I'll admit that that seems a bit excessive, but I think that changing the price to per square meter is way too lenient. I tried that once. The players ended up di-koting their car keys. Seriously. Since it has a minimum price, if they ever weren't at the maximum, they'd start throwing whatever they could find in the chamber. It was sad. Di-koted armor became the standard. Another one calculated the cost to di-kote his van. HIS FRAGGIN VAN! He wanted to take it apart and "kote" each piece of body armor individually. Crazy bastard. That prompted me to change the cost back, and then promptly cause the characters too all lose their car keys. :D I let them keep the di-koted weapons. It was also the only time I bothered to invoke the armor degradation rules.
So anyway, if you feel that di-kote is too expensive, cut the cost by a factor of 10, but if you cut it down by 100, your characters will start doing really crazy things. edit: I'm not talking about you Cray, I know you understand the metric system, I just think that's a bit too lenient. |
|
|
|
|
Dec 8 2003, 06:09 PM
Post
#13
|
|
|
Incertum est quo loco te mors expectet; Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,548 Joined: 24-October 03 From: DeeCee, U.S. Member No.: 5,760 |
It's only a problem when they start asking about dikoting gel rounds ; P
|
|
|
|
|
Dec 8 2003, 06:13 PM
Post
#14
|
|
|
Chrome to the Core Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,152 Joined: 14-October 03 From: ::1 Member No.: 5,715 |
Wouldn't the gel melt? (I know, sarcasm, quiet.)
You also have to remind them that some things just can't be dikoted. The regular armor they were dikoting wouldn't survive the process. The cloth would be gone, leaving just a few plates that you might be able to shove back in some new cloth. |
|
|
|
|
Dec 8 2003, 06:17 PM
Post
#15
|
|||||||||
|
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,428 Joined: 9-June 02 Member No.: 2,860 |
I don't actually see a problem with that. Today's real life examples of artificial diamond end up on normal hardware sawblades, drill bits, and other common items. Why not dikote the keys? It'll be an interesting conversation piece at parties. "Hey, you want to key a car? I got just the keys for the job..."
I'd've told him "No," because the car's body panels were too large for the chamber. If he wanted to dikote some bearings or the crankshaft, that's another matter.
If it is was military grade armor, I'd've said "sure." If it was almost any other type of armor, I would've said, "No," because the dikoting process incinerates polymers (which is what most modern body armor is made of). Sticking a big chunk of plastic in the dikoting chamber would probably ruin the chamber, too, or require it get sent back to the factory to clean the centimeter-thick layer of soot out of everything. Gawd, a turbomolecular pump sucking on burning plastic... But hindsight is 20/20, and armchair GMs like me are a dime a dozen.
Not if their GM is a materials engineer. ;) Street index and availability makes it hard to find dikoting shops. Convincing a legit dikoting shop tech to stick illegal milgrade armor or weaponry in a dikoting chamber is hard and dangerous. ("Dikote this blood-stained combat axe with the kill marks scratched into the haft? Sure, 1000 nuyen, no problem. Come back in 18 hours and it'll be done. Now, shoo, while I call the poli-...er, call up the program for the chamber.") Few items are suited for dikoting. Cost, IMO, is not needed for controlling dikoting. |
||||||||
|
|
|
||||||||
|
Dec 8 2003, 06:19 PM
Post
#16
|
|
|
Chrome to the Core Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,152 Joined: 14-October 03 From: ::1 Member No.: 5,715 |
Character idea: Dikoter. Think of the money you'd make...
However... Think of the money you'd need to get all the stuff. |
|
|
|
|
Dec 8 2003, 06:29 PM
Post
#17
|
|||||
|
Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,066 Joined: 5-February 03 Member No.: 4,017 |
The rules state that a dikoted vehicle exterior adds one to the body of the vehicle. If you know where to look, you can probably find a dikote chamber large enough to dikote the outside surface of a citymaster at once. Such a large chamber would probably be intended for use dikoting massive industrial components, but it is not irrational to suggest they exist and would be willing to do personal requests when not busy for a price. [not quite related rant] There had been people complaining that dikote does not behave much like current day dimond coatings. A number of years ago I saw a bit on the Discovery channel about a process that had about the exact observed results as dikote is supposed to but with less damage to fragile materials. Over the course of a day or two, the objects would be slowly frozen to around the temperature of liquid nitrogen and then slowly warmed. The interatomic pattern of the materials would adjust slightly to become a more perfect support of the object's whole shape. Knives stayed sharper longer, cloth was harder to tear, engine parts were smoother and caused less friction. [/rant] |
||||
|
|
|
||||
|
Dec 8 2003, 06:29 PM
Post
#18
|
|
|
Target Group: Members Posts: 50 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Pueblo Corporate Council Member No.: 2,020 |
Honestly, Dikote is a bit overrated. Yea, it makes your knife as useful as your gun... but when you've just got a gun, the fact that you don't know the jackpoint from your hoop doesn't matter (too much).
In melee, if you don't know what you're doing, you'll get your hoop handed to you on a dikoted platter. I've seen a character with 5 in Edged fillet a guard who all kinds of ballistic armour and a BFG, with a plain-old knife. The problem with the prevalence of technology is that your average player isn't going to give there characters a form of melee skill, wether it's unarmed or just edged. So this means that the instant someone closes with them, they're hosed because they're forced to default to a attribute: TN 6, minimum. Big Gun, shoot from far off. Little knife, slip between armour plates and through heart. Your choice, but with a middling skill in melee combat, a knife is just as deadly as a gun. Granted, I am biased :cyber:, what with realising the true power of a PhysAd, or a pretty juiced sam |
|
|
|
|
Dec 8 2003, 06:40 PM
Post
#19
|
|||
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 268 Joined: 30-March 03 From: Denver, CO Member No.: 4,355 |
I don't know about cloth, but I've always wanted to send a few of my target barrels to this place to go through the cryo treatment. The section on gun barrel treatments is here. [edit]looks like it had a spot on the Discovery Channel (originally in '96), so it might have been what you saw[/edit] |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Dec 8 2003, 06:43 PM
Post
#20
|
|||
|
Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,066 Joined: 5-February 03 Member No.: 4,017 |
Your site looks much like what I saw. It may not have been any cloth (cells of any type would die in the process, organic fiber may be damaged as well) but inorganic fibers would likely be strengthened. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Dec 8 2003, 07:02 PM
Post
#21
|
|||
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 227 Joined: 18-August 03 Member No.: 5,513 |
A square meter is 100cm on each of its sides. Does this not mean that 1 m^2 = 100cm^2? Just curious. :D |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Dec 8 2003, 07:04 PM
Post
#22
|
|
|
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
No. 100cm x 100cm = 10000cm^2 = 1m x 1m = 1m^2.
This post has been edited by Austere Emancipator: Dec 8 2003, 07:06 PM |
|
|
|
|
Dec 8 2003, 07:07 PM
Post
#23
|
|
|
Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
100 square centimeters=1cm^2*100, not (100cm)^2.
~J |
|
|
|
|
Dec 8 2003, 07:10 PM
Post
#24
|
|
|
Chrome to the Core Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,152 Joined: 14-October 03 From: ::1 Member No.: 5,715 |
Oh God! The equations are hurting me!
Ramen time. |
|
|
|
|
Dec 8 2003, 07:32 PM
Post
#25
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 227 Joined: 18-August 03 Member No.: 5,513 |
Oh, my bad.
100cm^2 = 10cm x 10cm That still seems pretty reasonable to me, considering what it can do for you. |
|
|
|
|
|
Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: 30th September 2025 - 08:12 AM |
Topps, Inc has sole ownership of the names, logo, artwork, marks, photographs, sounds, audio, video and/or any proprietary material used in connection with the game Shadowrun. Topps, Inc has granted permission to the Dumpshock Forums to use such names, logos, artwork, marks and/or any proprietary materials for promotional and informational purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not affiliated with the Dumpshock Forums in any official capacity whatsoever.