Rigging Motorcycles, Can a rigger rig a motorbike without falling off? Options

[nathanross]

and with the arsenal modifications, one can build the akira-bike

Now you're speaking my language. I am actually for handwaving the details as well. Instead of a full VR dive (limp body and all) a semi-dive with -3 to physical actions, but 3IPs for driving.

[Stahlseele]

but remembering that bike, i'm not really sure, if shadowrun would rule it as a bike and not a car with just 2 wheels *g*
but with the akira-bike, at least there would not be a problem with falling down, as the sides are enclosed and would prevent that . . you'd only have to deal with the changed physics of a limp body now weighting down one side instead of being evenly distributed in the middle . . but that's too much realism for me and if somebody starts about that i will gleefully take his character away and hand him a purely mediocre human character who can't do shit anyway *g*

[ornot]

Here's my take.

You can rig a motorcycle while you're riding it. This is because of the following reasons.

1. Before you jump in, you duck down as low as you can (or lean back if it's a chopper) and tense your muscles so you're more stable.
2. When jumped in, you "are" the bike, and can keep your body on board much the same way that a horse can help keep its rider from falling.
3. It's JUST FUCKING COOL!

Actually, I see no reason more important than #3.

First of all, I'm not a biker myself, although I am fairly sure that if you go limp you'll fall off a bike. Even in a car or a van you can fall over, hence the rigger cocoon mod.

I honestly want my player to be able to rig his bike. I do. I just also want to stay moderately in line with the fluff.

And technically it's very easy to fall off a horse too, unless you have a saddle with lots of support. Ask a jockey.

[WearzManySkins]

I personally like the side car with rigger cocoon myself. Solves the holding onto the bike part very easily. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

WMS

[Tarantula]

First of all, I'm not a biker myself, although I am fairly sure that if you go limp you'll fall off a bike. Even in a car or a van you can fall over, hence the rigger cocoon mod.

I honestly want my player to be able to rig his bike. I do. I just also want to stay moderately in line with the fluff.

And technically it's very easy to fall off a horse too, unless you have a saddle with lots of support. Ask a jockey.

Then rule that the ASSIST was designed with this in mind, and when it detects a rigger riding a bike that jumps into said bike, it allows partial control over the riggers body to the rigger to assist in the maneuvering of the bike.

[Aaron]

First of all, I'm not a biker myself, although I am fairly sure that if you go limp you'll fall off a bike.

I'd believe it, but for one small tidbit. If you look in your hymnal, you'll see that at every point it mentions going limp in VR, it also says "as if you were sleeping." People can sleep with tensed muscles, and can even sit up or stand while asleep. In fact, the stiffness some people feel in the morning is usually the result of having tensed muscles all night long. So, personally, I have no problem with a rigger on a bike.

[Cthulhudreams]

The 'switch' that makes you go limp when you use ASIST could logically be changed to do whatever the hell else you want it to do, and instead of just cutting of the brain from the muscle response could jet its own muscle response down there. We know THATS possible because thats what skillwires do.

In the 'realistic world' that would give a bike a handling penalty because it needs to shuffle your weight around - because as you would be like a plank

But you could have a good compromise by letting him rig the bike, but only when he has skillwires with the pilot ground vehicles skillsoft (R1) running. Then the skillwires can just send the 'hold the hell on' part of the program into his muscles while he is off in rigger land. Say it's possible in this unique circumstance because 'holding on' doesn't really require his brains active participation and focus.

[Cybergirl]

I think perhaps you (or whoever's character this is) should look into the Horseman from arsenal. Sounds a heck of a lot simpler and a very similar effect.

[Chibu]

Interesting, I actually had the same thought last night. I think he'd fall off (I'm not gonna tell my GM thought though (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) )

[ornot]

Then rule that the ASSIST was designed with this in mind, and when it detects a rigger riding a bike that jumps into said bike, it allows partial control over the riggers body to the rigger to assist in the maneuvering of the bike.

I think that's probably the direction I'm going in. I'll just have to insist that despite maintaining enough control over his body to ride, he still can't do other non-rigging stuff, such as turning in the saddle and shooting with his hand-held SMG, or directly rig other stuff and still ride. The alternative to that would be to have ASIST make someone rigid, as I and Aaron have now mentioned. That would also make people off in VR quite distinct from people off in Astral space.

As far as changing the Aurora for a Horseman, the background to his character is a speed freak go-ganger. Hence heavily tuned racing bikes are his thing, and he got into rigging in order to ride his bike better. I'm not really wanting to penalise him for his concept by demanding all sorts of extra crap like skill wires etc.

[Eyeless Blond]

You don't even have to change the rules, just the fluff. Say that the "Motorcycle Gyro Stabilization" mod is actually a "Reverse-RAS Motorcycle Stabilization Interface." It does the same thing as the mechanics dictate--allows the motorcycle to be rigged, +2 to Handling on Crash tests--but the way it does it isn't by adding extra gyroscopes to the vehicle that motorcycles don't need, but by interfacing with the rigging body, causing it to lean and move with the turns.

That part is just software, BTW; what you're really paying for is the extra counterweights built into the vehicle, that can take the place of a metahuman driver and allow you to rig the motorcycle even when nobody is in the driver's seat.

[Cybergirl]

As far as changing the Aurora for a Horseman, the background to his character is a speed freak go-ganger. Hence heavily tuned racing bikes are his thing, and he got into rigging in order to ride his bike better. I'm not really wanting to penalise him for his concept by demanding all sorts of extra crap like skill wires etc.

I am not a rules authority on the Rigging rules - but is there some way of getting Rigging bonuses while driving in AR rather than full VR? Or do you have to go full sim to get all the neat stuff?

As another concept, you might want to think about going the "poor man's Rigger" by just using Wired Reflexes, AR, and some high skill ratings. You could get 3-4 IP, some nice heavy dice pools, and also use the extra IP for normal fighting as well. Personally, I see this as a better alternative, and a more "logical" choice for what a go-ganger would do. Seems way more "cool" to have a biker with super-fast reflexes and drives like a bat out of hell, than to have one who goes comepletely unconscious over his bike to accomplish the same thing. But that's just my take *shrug*

[Cabral]

As far as changing the Aurora for a Horseman, the background to his character is a speed freak go-ganger. Hence heavily tuned racing bikes are his thing, and he got into rigging in order to ride his bike better. I'm not really wanting to penalise him for his concept by demanding all sorts of extra crap like skill wires etc.

A speed freak wants to experience speed through a VR speedometer? If he's a true speed freak, he'll want to feel that speed, piloting with AR instead of VR ... and his bike will be red! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Cthulhudreams]

As far as changing the Aurora for a Horseman, the background to his character is a speed freak go-ganger. Hence heavily tuned racing bikes are his thing, and he got into rigging in order to ride his bike better. I'm not really wanting to penalise him for his concept by demanding all sorts of extra crap like skill wires etc.

If it makes you feel any better, skillwires are arguably the most powerful piece of ware in the game.

[hobgoblin]

I'd believe it, but for one small tidbit. If you look in your hymnal, you'll see that at every point it mentions going limp in VR, it also says "as if you were sleeping." People can sleep with tensed muscles, and can even sit up or stand while asleep. In fact, the stiffness some people feel in the morning is usually the result of having tensed muscles all night long. So, personally, I have no problem with a rigger on a bike.

also, older versions had a rule where you could do stuff in the real world while in VR, it just took some nasty modifiers because of it.

and the fluff at the start of SR3 talked about the decker not bothering to take the time to arrange the face into a "social" expression while jacked in, indicating that while your not aware of your real body to the same degree, one could still control it, if one wanted to.

as for moving while sleeping, talk to any person that have a habit of sleepwalking (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Stahlseele]

and his bike will be red!

'cause red uns go fasta!
but the akira bike is red too so meh *g*

[vladski]

A speed freak wants to experience speed through a VR speedometer? If he's a true speed freak, he'll want to feel that speed, piloting with AR instead of VR ... and his bike will be red! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

But, a true Shadowrunner's bike is black.
(And full of Bondo.) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

Vlad

[Stahlseele]

bunda i says!
red uns go fasta and fasta is betta!
also: chamaeleon-effect paint, best of both worlds

[Jhaiisiin]

Another possible solution is to use a modified rigger cocoon and keep the rigger on the bike that way. Think a bike more like Tron, completely enclosed and safe from harm. Hell, make it even more fun by removing manual controls and make it completely VCR controlled.

[Stahlseele]

or as mentioned, the akira-bike . . which does come in red allready *g*

[Shrapnel]

Fuel tanks are ferrous, magnets stick to them. (They even have magnetic tank bags). Just have the rigger have a couple speaker magnets in his jacket that stick him to the fuel tank and you're good to go.

I think an electro-magnetic vest is a great idea! You can rig it to attach as soon as you jack in, and detach as soon as you jack out. This also satisfies Vlad's need for a cinematic escape scene...

A person playing a Runner wants to be able to describe:

"Jack Flash slips out the back door and slides onto his bike and jacks in. He starts her up and revs the engine a couple times before peeling off in the foggy Seattle night just as Lonestar exits the backdoor in pursuit, only to see the dark rider's taillight turning the corner."

Now that I think about it, this might be one of the few decent uses for magnetic cyberhands! A character with magnets in his hands, knees, and feet should be able to stay on a bike fairly well, even at high speeds, especially if he's in the full tuck position.

Looks like I have a new character concept to play with... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)

[Stahlseele]

woudln't that gecko-stuff work too? and probably even better than the magnets?
but the magnetic west does sound like fun, indeed *g*
especially, if you can remote-controll it . . wanna make somebody look silly? switch it on while he's standing between his kitchen-utensils . . pans and pots and kettles and the like . .
wanna be really mean? wait untill he opens the drawer with the forks and knives *g*
or if you wanna get him in trouble, switch it off in an unconvenient moment so everything he stuck onto it so he would not have to carry it will fall down with a loud clattering noise ^^

[ornot]

You don't even have to change the rules, just the fluff. Say that the "Motorcycle Gyro Stabilization" mod is actually a "Reverse-RAS Motorcycle Stabilization Interface." It does the same thing as the mechanics dictate--allows the motorcycle to be rigged, +2 to Handling on Crash tests--but the way it does it isn't by adding extra gyroscopes to the vehicle that motorcycles don't need, but by interfacing with the rigging body, causing it to lean and move with the turns.

That part is just software, BTW; what you're really paying for is the extra counterweights built into the vehicle, that can take the place of a metahuman driver and allow you to rig the motorcycle even when nobody is in the driver's seat.

I was looking for a fluff explanation, and that is rather a nice one.

I am not a rules authority on the Rigging rules - but is there some way of getting Rigging bonuses while driving in AR rather than full VR? Or do you have to go full sim to get all the neat stuff?

As another concept, you might want to think about going the "poor man's Rigger" by just using Wired Reflexes, AR, and some high skill ratings. You could get 3-4 IP, some nice heavy dice pools, and also use the extra IP for normal fighting as well. Personally, I see this as a better alternative, and a more "logical" choice for what a go-ganger would do. Seems way more "cool" to have a biker with super-fast reflexes and drives like a bat out of hell, than to have one who goes comepletely unconscious over his bike to accomplish the same thing. But that's just my take *shrug*

That solution is rather more build point heavy, and I'm trying to discourage WR from being the must have 'ware which they currently are.