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[fool]

I just got arsenal, and am vastly disappointed that there was absolutely no mention of bikes. Real bikes, not motorcycles. Given the current trend of bicycles becoming more and more prevelant as a mode of transportation, especially in areas where people care about the environment, and the constant increase in the cost of carbon based fuels, and the ease with which bicycles can be produced and used, there is absolutley no reason they aren't included.
To give a couple examples, I personally can often make better time in on my bike than the local busses do during peak commuting times. And that's not in area that would be the equivalent to GG.
In NYC, and other big cities, they still use bike messengers as the preferred option over motor vehicles because bikes are almost always faster.
Given that cars cause gridlock and bikes can split lanes, bikes make better time in the inner city.
Bikes aren't generally traceable the way cars are... no electronics.
Bikes come in many different forms, standard road, recumbent lwb, recumbent swb, tall, recumbent trikes,standard trikes mountain, bmx, and by 2070 some form of human powered aircraft. Furthermore, they can come with a wide variety of accesories/ mods... covers to increase speed and provide armor, gyro units to help stabilize, and a myriad of interesting toys by 2070.
Finally bikes can go places most vehicles can't, sidewalks, narrow trails, inside buildings etc.
Aside from this small deficiency I found arsenal to quite good

[masterofm]

Well you see it's 2070. If anyone is riding a bike in 2070 they are in for a world of hurt considering how SR works. If any character got on a bike they would probably be shot for no reason what soever... that or be given a motorcycle and told to "cut that out." Seriously though just create a bike if you want.... I mean in a world like this the only thing riding a bike does is make you go slower then a Shadow Runner would want.

Remember most of what appears in the BBB (and arsenal) is what I consider the type of gear that shadowrunners would use. The only reason I can think of why they don't have bikes is the same reason why toothpaste isn't listed (because lets face it it's just not important enough considering all of the other things a runner would want.)

[Eyeless Blond]

Bikes, inline skates, skateboards, "heelies", hoverboards (based on the skimmer feet in Augmentation), yeah, that stuff would be pretty cool to have rules for.

It would even be neat to see some sort of "kinetic clothing" that could take energy from limb movements and give a little extra power-assist to your bike/skates.

[Kyoto Kid]

...the vision of Sammy on a Ten Speed comes back to mind. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/spin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/spin.gif)

Bikes, inline skates, skateboards, "heelies", hoverboards (based on the skimmer feet in Augmentation), yeah, that stuff would be pretty cool to have rules for.

...inline skates are in Arsenal (p.62)

[Eyeless Blond]

Bah. You know, I keep missing these things.

[Squinky]

...the vision of Sammy on a Ten Speed comes back to mind. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/spin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/spin.gif)


...inline skates are in Arsenal (p.62)

When I saw those in there I knew you would be remembering it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[b1ffov3rfl0w]

I don't know about bikes making you go slower than a shadowrunner would want. Shadowruns very often take place in cities, and cities often have terrible, terrible traffic, not to mention random blockages and other stupid crap that a bike can often go right around. In cities (real cities) there are often cops on bikes, cops on horses, and even cops on rollerblades (okay the last are not in real cities, but still). Probably you could have some sort of electric hybrid bike or something, but it seems like regular muscle-powered bikes are pretty worthwhile today in cities.

Plus, being a bike courier (or having a cover as a bike courier) lets you get into at least the foyer of just about any building so you can scan wireless nodes, palm off a bug or microdrone, or just record some video for casing the place. And it provides an excuse for wearing an Urban Explorer jumpsuit.

[Screamin Demon]

That would be cool to get rules for bikes and other muscle powered forms of propulsion. I can see it easily slipping the minds of the writers because when you think Shadowrun universe you definitely don't think bikes. Kudos, OP. Way to think around corners (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
I almost think this is poll worthy.

[KCKitsune]

Also, think about what a runner with Strength of 6 or 7 & Agility 6 (common enough for a sammy) can do with a bike. They might be able to out run cars in a city quite easily.

[Kyoto Kid]

I don't know about bikes making you go slower than a shadowrunner would want. Shadowruns very often take place in cities, and cities often have terrible, terrible traffic, not to mention random blockages and other stupid crap that a bike can often go right around. In cities (real cities) there are often cops on bikes, cops on horses, and even cops on rollerblades (okay the last are not in real cities, but still). Probably you could have some sort of electric hybrid bike or something, but it seems like regular muscle-powered bikes are pretty worthwhile today in cities.

Plus, being a bike courier (or having a cover as a bike courier) lets you get into at least the foyer of just about any building so you can scan wireless nodes, palm off a bug or microdrone, or just record some video for casing the place. And it provides an excuse for wearing an Urban Explorer jumpsuit.

...actually there was a character in one of the campaigns I was in who was a bike messenger.

[Larme]

NO! NONE FOR YOU! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif)

Erm, sorry. I really don't care if your character rides a bike. But something about human powered cycles just says "wuss" to me, while simultaneously saying "ESPN-2." I'd rather not see them crop up in Shadowrun, because I fear them becoming too common. Shadowrun is about big growling choppers, and futuristic racing bikes that leave neon streaks as afterimages in your eyes! Skates are ok, because you look less dorky when skating than when pedaling a bike...

Regardless, to add bikes to a game I would just use the rules for inline skates, except it might be harder to do certain tasks since you need to steer, and combat while riding a bike would usually not be possible.

On the OP's point about bike messengers: it is my impression that Shadowrun has adopted Snow Crash into its canon when it comes to messengers. They wear Rapid Transit jumpsuits (which change color) and they skate. Not on smartwheeled skateboards, but on inline skates. And they don't have 'poons, because you can only do so much copying before you're violating a copyright (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) But still the same idea. Bikes are not part of Snow Crash, and they're not as awesome as skates, so to hell with em!

[Tarantula]

If there were bikes, they'd be electric grid powered bikes. Why would you want a bicycle, when you can have a horseman that sustainably go 80km/h? Or even a terrier that can go 40. Thats as good as an electric scooter, which is still a helluva lot better than a bicycle.

Hell, even a dodge scoot would really be the closest equivalent of a bike that you'll get. All the benefits of bicycle travel (splits lanes, etc.) but bonus of not having to pedal, you can put smart tires on it, and whatnot. Not to mention running away on a bicycle is likely to get you screwed.

As far as getting through traffic, what about the Revolution and its giant smart tire that can roll over most other vehicles?

[Daier Mune]

I think the PMVs have pretty much cornered the market, i do think its reasonable that there'd still be bikes in shadowrun. its two main advantages are cost (bikes arn't gonna cost you anything more than a few hundred up front, and maybe fifty a year in maitanance), and portability (titanium/ceramic frames made with smart materials and powered folding points, i see these futurebikes folding up and being slung over your back with no more bulk than your Ares Alpha).

[Stahlseele]

weren't there bikes in the SR3 Rigger-Books? at least in one of them?
if so, one could try to simply port them over . .

[hermit]

Erm, sorry. I really don't care if your character rides a bike. But something about human powered cycles just says "wuss" to me, while simultaneously saying "ESPN-2." I'd rather not see them crop up in Shadowrun, because I fear them becoming too common. Shadowrun is about big growling choppers, and futuristic racing bikes that leave neon streaks as afterimages in your eyes! Skates are ok, because you look less dorky when skating than when pedaling a bike...

Yeah, and monocycles. Because Bonzo the Clown is much less hilarious than bike couriers. And segways, perhaps the most gangsta form of wheeled transportation there is.

[Larme]

Yeah, and monocycles. Because Bonzo the Clown is much less hilarious than bike couriers. And segways, perhaps the most gangsta form of wheeled transportation there is.

Ok, you really needed the sarcasm to get your message across (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sarcastic.gif)

And since when does the monocycle look anything like a unicycle? And segways are totally hardcore (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

Regardless, there's never been a bicycle in SR, ever, so it's not exactly surprising that they left them out of Arsenal.

[Stahlseele]

entertainment systems papoose or something like that . . i am pretty sure, that there was at least one usual bike in one of those SR3 books . . but i am at work and can't access any of my stuff

[Tarantula]

The entertainment systems papoose was a scooter like the dodge scoot. It was just a bit better. Cost a little more, went 50% faster, and could carry a bit more.

Kinda like the high-end of the dodge scoot.

My honest opinion, couriers would use horseman PMVs with the advanced cargo module and smart tires.

17,000 for the vehicle, plus 7,500 for the wheels.

Technically you don't even need the wheels, as it has "walk-mode" which lets it go on sidewalks and in elevators.

The reasons I think couriers would do this, is twofold. First, they have added safety from the protection of the horseman chassis. Secondly, they can carry a number of items (roughly a large car trunk's worth) at once, and can deliver them (via mechanical arms) without ever having to get out of the horseman. Add in 1,500 more (not much) and make the shell have a rigger cocoon inside it for added protection. It only takes about a minute to get into it (not really that bad at say the start of a shift) and offers the driver much increased survivability. Throw it in as an ejection seat for 500 more, and now your courier is set for his life of delivering. He should almost never have to worry about where he has to deliver his cargo. Hell, beef up the armor some more, throw in chameleon coating, and he might even be willing to go to the barrens for deliveries (which could justify how he affords all this crap).

Hmm, I think I just got a new rigger character idea.

[Pendaric]

Bike speeds would be nice. Apart from that bit of info, I would say that bike stats are what refs are for. For corpers the whole riding to the office on a bike in your nice gated community must still be promoted for cost and well being. So they exist in SR, just stat them up and post them here for everyone to use. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif)

Hell I even had a combat decker that kept fit by being a cycle courier.

[fool]

Back in sr3 I wrote up rules for them, but lost them in the intervening years.
I still say bikes have certain inherent advantages that would make them ideal for runners, especially any souped up strength runner.
To Whit.. better stealth, no grid guide tracking, in urban areas can often be faster than cars or motorcycles, cheaper (forgot that one in my original post), can go far more places (I really don't think your dodge scoot can split lanes nearly as safely, and in line skates will never replace bikes for messengering there a reason man made gears,) you can produce your own elec while riding to power all those nifty toys that can go on them.
If they can list in line skates and skis, there's really no reason not to have bikes.
As to combat, the swiss army just a few years ago quit buying/ producing swiss army mountain bikes. They included a built in weapon mount for lmgs (I shit you not.) Firing a pistol from on a bike wouldn't be any harder than from any other vehicle.

[Cabral]

Back in one of the Rigger books there was a motorized bike that the rider could pedal or use the motor.






Oh no, the Joker's getting away on a Huffy, quick! To the Bat-Segways!

[b1ffov3rfl0w]

The entertainment systems papoose was a scooter like the dodge scoot. It was just a bit better. Cost a little more, went 50% faster, and could carry a bit more.

Kinda like the high-end of the dodge scoot.

My honest opinion, couriers would use horseman PMVs with the advanced cargo module and smart tires.

17,000 for the vehicle, plus 7,500 for the wheels.

Ha. No. Bicycle couriers are all about being hardcore (often crazy). They get paid about minimum wage and are three times as likely to be injured on the job as meat packers are. The whole economic reason for the existence of bicycle messengers is twofold: 1) they're cheap: it's a guy on a bike getting paid next to diddly, and 2) they're fast: a bicycle goes through traffic in a way that even a motorcycle cannot.

Really, all this "bikes are wuss" dumbassery and so instead we're going to have the messenger cocooned in some multi-thousand-nuyen safe-tastic fancy rigger thing? I mean, why bother having the rigger there in person even? The drone can just be remotely piloted (or use its own Pilot) up to the building, someone puts the optical memory chip, blood sample, or sushi into the climate-controlled compartment, fly to the delivery spot, maybe messaging the recipient while en route, and then it's unloaded by the person receiving the delivery.

No, bikes are the "punk" part of cyberpunk.

Now, an assassin using a bike messenger job as a cover (a la Grosse Pointe Blank), that's another story.

[b1ffov3rfl0w]

Ok, you really needed the sarcasm to get your message across (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sarcastic.gif)

And since when does the monocycle look anything like a unicycle? And segways are totally hardcore (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

...says the guy who presented the "cowgirl" riding a motorcycle that's dressed up as a horse. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohplease.gif)

(Not that it wasn't a cool idea, mind you, but it does kind of bar you from the "arbiter of style" role).

[Shrike30]

I'd borrow the rules for inline/cyberskates, but rather than the +50% bonus to movement say +100% (or some other number, if you don't like that one).

[Tarantula]

Ha. No. Bicycle couriers are all about being hardcore (often crazy). They get paid about minimum wage and are three times as likely to be injured on the job as meat packers are. The whole economic reason for the existence of bicycle messengers is twofold: 1) they're cheap: it's a guy on a bike getting paid next to diddly, and 2) they're fast: a bicycle goes through traffic in a way that even a motorcycle cannot.

Really, all this "bikes are wuss" dumbassery and so instead we're going to have the messenger cocooned in some multi-thousand-nuyen safe-tastic fancy rigger thing? I mean, why bother having the rigger there in person even? The drone can just be remotely piloted (or use its own Pilot) up to the building, someone puts the optical memory chip, blood sample, or sushi into the climate-controlled compartment, fly to the delivery spot, maybe messaging the recipient while en route, and then it's unloaded by the person receiving the delivery.

No, bikes are the "punk" part of cyberpunk.

Now, an assassin using a bike messenger job as a cover (a la Grosse Pointe Blank), that's another story.

Might I refer you to the GMC Hermes Van and GMC Sandal delivery drones then? Bike couriers wouldn't be around in the nice neighborhoods, cause drones are even cheaper, and probably more reliable too. They wouldn't be around the slummy parts (such as Z zones) that the drones wouldn't be used in, cause the courier would probably get rolled just for his bike and plus whatever was in the package.