Impound Security Options

[Kagetenshi]

Woo, a fellow Bostonian!

But yeah. Impound security ain't gonna be tight unless for whatever reason they decide to stash the thing in a military base.

~J

[Lilt]

I understand that there wouldn't be much security compared to, for example, a police station. It just depends on what security you have in a police station.

Security seems to be tighter across the board in the 2060s. Police cars, for example, sport armour that can deflect light pistol and SMG rounds. The standard police firearm only fires in burst fire mode. Not to mention the fact that any mage with invisibility could waltz in there unchallenged unless there was some form of awakened presence.

As far as the drone thing goes: Weapons with selectable gel/normal rounds (or tasers/pepper sprays) could be used at a little extra cost. I know that people don't use drones nowadays, but we don't have drones nowadays. I'm pretty sure that if we did (at a reasonable price) then they would be used (albeit with non-lethal weapons such-as pepper spray) as a more active addition to CCTV systems in high security areas/so-as not to endanger human life. As shadowrunners seemingly become more common leading up-to the 2060s it implies to me that it's not unreasonable to use automated deterrent systems even in lower-hazard areas in the 2060s (given the right price).

But that's just my view based on my game-world. I'm not saying that turrets with armor 12 and HMGs would spring-up if you tried to steal a car, i'm saying that there would be a a tired-looking guy, a coupple of watcher spirits, and a few security cameras that doubble as pepperspray guns/Gel-round firing SMGs/tear-gas dispersers/whatever.

[Fortune]

One thing to keep in mind is that in 2060+, most cars wil have transponder-type things that help track the vehicle. This would go a long way towards alleviating the need for ultra-high security, being that if the car was stolen, odds are that it could easily be tracked.

[Kagetenshi]

A mage could waltz in. The mage could also waltz out. The mage could not, however, drive out without a little effort.

~J

[Lilt]

Or the mage could break into a vehicle and alter it (making it useless as evidence), or steal something from it. He could even mind-control the mage into ignoring him. Having a watcher there would just make it more difficult.

As for the transponder chips: what effect do you think that would have on impounded cars? Sure you could return them to their owner if the transponder was not tampered with mut I'd imagine most car theives by 2060 would know how to remove a transponder chip, or at-least wouldn't try to sell it on without doing so.

[BumsofTacoma]

When i got my 72 buick impounded

it wasnt at an acctual police impound, it was just a tow truck yard. I could have just jumped the fence started it up and drove off (after rehooking up the battery)
but i payed the 300$ to the yard, the 50$ to the cops, and a 157$ ticket. more than i payed for the car!!!

although in SR if you had guns mounted on it and the sort they would probly keep it near a police station. your not likely to find a fenced off area full of impounded vehicles in, or around the station itself.

if its a minor offense, dui or whatever, ited be in a mostly unguarded tow yard.

(i did not get a dui, i parked in a very stupid area, but the sign saying not to park there was totaly covered by a tree!!!!! tried to argue but they wouldnt listen, stupid sign, stupid tree, stupid........money takers!)

[Siege]

Provided of course the towing service doesn't provide it's own security which would vary depending on the wrecker service.

Yet another potential career choice for shadowrunners -- tow truck operators and repo men! :grinbig:

I think that has some potential for a character concept...

-Siege

[Kagetenshi]

Lilt, I think you mean would try to sell it on, and quickly, if they didn't know how to remove the chip.

~J

[Lilt]

I think that everyone in 2060 would be wary of buying a car in a quick deal as they'd know that the car was going to be taken back in a day or so's time. (that is to say without checking that there is no vehicle transponder chip)

As I said earlier, I doubt that Ares or Lonestar would subcontract to non-owned subsiduaries. OK: Nowadays there may be independant truckyards ETC but these are corporations we're talking about, if something can earn money then they create/own it already.

[thunderchild]

[Frag-o Delux]

Why wouldn't they sub-contract? They are corporations that need to look out for their bottom line, sub-contractors are a way to cut cost.

Ok, depending on the vehicle, you will get different security for your car.

If it is a criminal investigation it will have a good bit of security around it. A few guards camersa drones maybe a mage and some spirits.

If your car was towed because you are a dead beat dad or parked on your neighbors lawn in a fit of drunken stupidness, it will in all likelihood be towed and impounded at bob' tow yard. Some states run their own tow yards, but they really don't do impounding.

Another thing the impound lot for the good stuff and things that are required for court cases are held in a secret place. About 2 or 3 years ago the DA had to give a couple of bad guys their walking papers because someone found the evidence against them and stole it from the "secret" building. I drove past the building everyday and never paid it any attention, nothing worthy to say about it. It had one camera per door (2), and as far as I know no other security, because the amount of evidence and the time it would have taken to remove it was a long time. Nobody knew it happened until the case went to trial and they couldn't find the evidence.

OK I agree security in SR is at a much higher state then today, but why is a corp going to throw good money out the window to protect cars that are not worth all that attention.

And watchers are easier to sneak past then a astral mage or a hell hound.

[thunderchild]

[nezumi]

Something else to consider, it really isn't cost effective to hire hellhounds and full time initiated combat mages to watch an old, busted up car. It seems a LOT more cost effective to get something like those wheel lock things and just put that on cars (except, of course, it would be something significantly meaner, cheaper and easier to apply. Perhaps some sort of giant magnet that keeps the computer shut down? I don't know. Just make some device thats easy to apply and difficult to unlock or break, and you simply cannot drive with it engaged.

[Siege]

[Lilt]

Hmm. Good points about the magnets ETC. I'd imagine it'd be cheaper and faster to just activate all of the termination chips. Still some extra level of security would be useful to stop perople from breaking in, disabling the chip (or magnet, or whatever), and making off with the vehicle.

[edit]Well: I'm dumb. I just got the refference you were making to termination chips. DOH[/edit]

[edit]Electronics B/R 5 test with base time 10 minutes looks like the best way to go...[/edit]

[Talia Invierno]

Just thought this might be of interest, since a couple of months back we ran an impound scenario loosely cored in this discussion thread.

The agency was federal, specifically impounds based on caught smuggling coming into Seattle overland. The agents and infrastructure were not highly valued, and thus seriously underfunded, resulting in interesting cost-cutting measures at various levels. One result was that the agents were perfectly willing usually to let basic smuggling attempts slide (with the appropriate personal compensation, of course). Another was that nothing of real value "should" have ended up in impound. (Of course, mistakes are always made. The third garage floor was dedicated to the high-end corporate vehicles that somebody's son screwed up in, and which it was just a matter of time before they were "legally" sprung free by the Powers That Be. The run was intended to liberate another mistake: one of their Johnson's shipments had gone astray when a supervisor who wasn't supposed to be there had turned up at the customs post at the wrong time.)

The impound was a basic bricked-up multistory building, non-labelled, non-addressed. It took the team quite some time and talk to be able to identify it at all.

Overall security was very basic: man (vehicle)-trapped single point of garage entrance and further man-trapped entrance to the central security/rigger's office, the usual one-way bullet-proof glass, and a staff of six (counting the security rigger, standard non-exceptional patrollers, and a should-have-been-retired mage in something of a sinecured position). Security cameras. Drones ... but the proper ammunition for the drones and other crucial requisitions had been lost somewhere in paperwork, and for the time being, the staff were making do with pepper spray.

The first run in, the team actually found the garage doors open ... since they just also happened additionally to intersect with a second, better equipped and better organised team which was attempting to get their own vehicle back and which had much better Matrix overwatch. (Our team's NPC decker did charge his contact for his services ... even though he had not actually rendered them.)

Apart from running into the other team, our team thought this was a piece of cake, so they decided to return to try to liberate a really good vehicle or three. In the meantime, however, the impound staff had pulled out those requisition requests again, citing the previous break-in as proof that heightened security was needed. Someone listened.

That time, the drones had ammo ... among other surprises. And the team just barely limped home.

[Steel Machine]

For those of you who are intrested I believe that the latest issue of TSS contained a brief blurb in Seattle 2063 on LSSS and Impound yards.

My own thoughts: Impound and evidence rooms are different entities.

An evidence room or locker would be where you would find any sort of items portable enough to store conveinantly until they can either be disposed of or used in court precedings. Once items have been used in court room proceedings I see them being either: returned to their lawful owners if they can be found; or prove ownership and the item is legal; or liscensed; or disposed of by either destroying (Common items I see possibly being destroyed would be weapons-makes for good PR( and good throw away pieces....)-magical items and compnents, as well as explosive devices), selling (Especially in the case of cybernetics,a nd maybe even organs? Depends on how dark you want your Star...) or keeping and issuing. (Discreetly mind you...)

An impound yard would be a large area used to hold vechiles primarily-Seattle is a port town so boats of various sizes could end up here too. ("Hey Lou want to take that boat we confiscated from those bums that tried to stick up that Ares ship on your fishing trip?") I think Impound Yards would bbe decentralized for conveinance-each major region would have their own as to cut down on the cost of transporting these items from various locations in Seattle for storage.

As for the staffing-well why pay a full fledged cop to do this sort of work? I could easily see it being subcontracted or staffed by noncertified staff.

Just my own thoughts.

[Rev]

One little twist that could make looting the good stuff out of an impound lot a little tricky is the possiblity that they would park in a lot of the vehicles. Might have to move ten cars to get the one you want. If they have a few real nice cars in a low security lot they might also secure them with an external lock of some kind, like those big yellow things they attatch to illegally parked cars in some places instead of impounding them. They might also stick a tracking bug sticker on the car for inventory/security purposes when it arrived.

[Frag-o Delux]

Boots

[Kagetenshi]

Violaters will be clamped!

~J

[Frag-o Delux]

Baltimore doesn't use them much. They have a fleet of wreckers to yank your car before you get 10 feet from it. DC on the other hand seems to love these things. They'll leave your car parked there throw a boot on it and then periodically come by to put another ticket under the wiper. :) After a few dozen tickets they come and get your car, shich incures another fine. :)

[northern lights]

my group just pulled one of these. i'll list what i can from memory.

the impound was for the highly illegal stuff, but we only went for the vehicles as our rigger had his hoverdrone impounded. so he wanted us to go in and get it, so we agreed if we took everything there. the inventory was:

1 wasp
2 dobermans
1 strato9
1 seriously rigged nomad
1 decently rigged mpuv
1 LS americar patrol car (had been stolen)
1 LS 3220 turbo modded for street racing
1 brumby with hidden smuggling compartments
1 fairly stock roadmaster

total street value was about 1.6 million nuyen with all accessories.

security was:
1 onsite rigger in citymaster
8 guards wearing light security armor with assault rifles and a mix of wired and boosted
1 onsite mage with 2 elementals and watcher spirits

shift changes occured as follows:

the entire shift changed at once. the new shift rolled in via the citymaster and 2 squad cars. the two squad cars then escorted the leaving shift out in their citymaster.

response time was 10 minutes via ground, 3 via air. we cut power and phone but did not run into air support.

personal impounded items were in the basement, we left that there. all drugs, chips, ammo, etc. was there, we just took the vehicles and the drones.

response made it there in 8 minutes and the last vehicle out took a little damage because only 2 or 3 of us could drive worth a damn.

we left improvised spike strips in the road and a couple of borrowed vans in the way under cover of smoke grenades for the incoming pursuit. it took out the two unarmored vehicles that responded, the mage took out the armored vehicles.

[Bearclaw]

Here in the Portland area, impounded cars are kept by the impounding tow yard. In other words, in a fenced, locked yard. Anyone who wants their stuff back can get it, if they really want it. I'm sure the gate is alarmed, but no big deal, right?
That's how it is here. I've been there. If you're a regular person worried about getting in trouble, it's secure, but it's not actually secure at all.