Minigun Recoil, Is this thing even usable? Options

[nathanross]

Okay, now I gave one of my players a minigun to help clear out a ghoul nest and it was totally fucking worthless. It is only useful for suppressive fire? How can you really make use of it when you suffer a -15DP to shoot it? Also, how much recoil compensation do drones have? He also has a Lynx with a Vindicator, and for it to shoot with recoil means it has no dice left to hit. Please help!

[Aaron]

You say "only useful for suppressive fire" like it's a bad thing.

[Aaron]

It would seem (p. 105, Arsenal) that vehicle-mounted weapons don't suffer recoil modifiers.

[Zen Shooter01]

Some weapons aren't actually intended to be man portable. But mounted on a vehicle, they're awesome.

(Although I apply the option rule that a vehicle's body equals its recoil compensation, to keep people from slapping minis on small drones.)

[Larme]

Okay, now I gave one of my players a minigun to help clear out a ghoul nest and it was totally fucking worthless. It is only useful for suppressive fire? How can you really make use of it when you suffer a -15DP to shoot it? Also, how much recoil compensation do drones have? He also has a Lynx with a Vindicator, and for it to shoot with recoil means it has no dice left to hit. Please help!

Get a gyro (7), a gas vent 3 (3) (which costs the same despite the six barrels), a shock pad (1), a personalized grip (1), and a heavy barrel (1). That leaves you with just a -2. Now, it's kinda weird that a heavy barrel for 6 barrels, and a gas vent system for 6 barrels would actually cost the same as normal, but that's something you need to handwave to make the gun at all useful to people on foot. Which I think it should be, because it's a really cool weapon and will add style to the game, and it's already harder to shoot with less brute force than an HMG, so it's not worth nerfing.

[Cabral]

Miniguns should be used for suppressive fire (combined with grenades into opponent's cover) or with gyro stabilization harnesses. You can get an impressive amount of recoil compensation on a minigun if you try. I don't have my books with me, so I can't give you exact numbers.

Of course, the alternative is to suck up the DP mod, shut off your smartlink, blindfold yourself and throw down some edge. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/devil.gif)

[Squinky]

Don't forget the rules for strength adding into recoil reduction.

[Fortune]

In my world Miniguns cannot accept barrel mounts (including gas vents).

[Squinky]

In my world Miniguns cannot accept barrel mounts (including gas vents).

Which is something I wonder about, there are no other miniguns but the vindicator, even though they have a cool black box describing how they work. Am I just missing the minigun mod? Cause is sure seems like there should be one.

[WearzManySkins]

In my world Miniguns cannot accept barrel mounts (including gas vents).

I agree with Fortune, miniguns can not have barrel mounts with gas vents, despite what you see in the Cinema, you can not hand carry and fire one of these beasts. Vehicle Mount are the way to go.

WMS

[HentaiZonga]

despite what you see in the Cinema, you can not hand carry and fire one of these beasts.

...unless you're a troll.

[Raven Bloodeyes]

Agreed, after all the description on how they work, I couldn't find a way to mod anything else into a minigun.... a minigun shotgun would just be cool!!!

[HentaiZonga]

Agreed, after all the description on how they work, I couldn't find a way to mod anything else into a minigun.... a minigun shotgun would just be cool!!!

Hell, just load it with blanks - the sound alone should be sufficient to stun people into submission.

[Stahlseele]

I agree with Fortune, miniguns can not have barrel mounts with gas vents, despite what you see in the Cinema, you can not hand carry and fire one of these beasts. Vehicle Mount are the way to go.

WMS

it's all just a matter of practice, really *g*
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3174/235265...364a703df_o.jpg

but yes, Miniguns are a bitch to handle . . they were frigging useless in SR3, because getting recoil compensation was harder back then. .
and why the hell does the recoil from strength table go to *thinks* 6, 12, 18 or 24? it's impossible to get a Strength of 18, let alone 24 . . well, okay, with redlining, maybe, but still!

[CanRay]

Well, depends on the situation... If you need to spray the crawler drones, then some 'Runners, then some 'copter drones, then the ceiling, then your own 'copter drones, then your own Posse, then your own crawler drones, then take a nap, it's great!

[WearzManySkins]

it's all just a matter of practice, really *g*
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3174/235265...364a703df_o.jpg

but yes, Miniguns are a bitch to handle . . they were frigging useless in SR3, because getting recoil compensation was harder back then. .
and why the hell does the recoil from strength table go to *thinks* 6, 12, 18 or 24? it's impossible to get a Strength of 18, let alone 24 . . well, okay, with redlining, maybe, but still!

Nice Stunt Photo.

Last thing you need is to stand in one place braced for the recoil. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif) Some Twink Sniper put you into a Body Bag. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

With all that muzzled Flash seeing things not directly in front of you will be interesting.

WMS

[krakjen]

and why the hell does the recoil from strength table go to *thinks* 6, 12, 18 or 24? it's impossible to get a Strength of 18, let alone 24 . . well, okay, with redlining, maybe, but still!

Actually, from Arsenal:

A character with Strength of 6–9 has 1 point of recoil compensation, Strength 10–13 has 2 points, Strength 14–17 has 3 points, and Strength 18+ has 4 points.

It hardly go over 18, but even a troll with maxed out strength can't really go that high anyway...

[Larme]

I agree with Fortune, miniguns can not have barrel mounts with gas vents, despite what you see in the Cinema, you can not hand carry and fire one of these beasts. Vehicle Mount are the way to go.

WMS

I don't think there's any reason to nerf miniguns. Per RAW, they can accept barrel mounts. Why does the fact that modern miniguns are not man portable mean anything for a 2070 minigun? I would note that modern miniguns do not have gyromounts available, and I'm sure that gas vents will be more advanced in the future. Yes, it's true that modern miniguns can't be fired by people on foot, but neither can a Vindicator, at least not without a full body harness that only partially compensates it... And miniguns lack the brute power of even an HMG, which can accept every mod. You're just telling your players "you can't use the cool thing in a cool way because I'm stuck back here in 2008 and am unwilling to suspend my disbelief even one iota for the sake of cinema." Way to go (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sarcastic.gif)

[CanRay]

"In order to get a Vindicator, your character has to be as cool as the Terminator. That way, I can suspend disbelief enough for cinema."

"Terminator 3?"

"No, either T1 or T2."

"Damn, harder to do. ... OK, to start with, I need a bike. I find a biker bar, and take everyone in it out to steal a single bike."

[krakjen]

But only if you go naked and steal also some leather clothing, shades and a cool shotgun.

[Fortune]

I don't think there's any reason to nerf miniguns. Per RAW, they can accept barrel mounts. Why does the fact that modern miniguns are not man portable mean anything for a 2070 minigun?

I made no comment as to portability. I also made no comment in reference to canon. I merely made a statement about barrel mounts and miniguns. In SR3 (and nowadays I assume), miniguns could not accept barrel mounts in the vein of gas-vents and the like, and this is how things work in my SR4 games.

[WearzManySkins]

I don't think there's any reason to nerf miniguns. Per RAW, they can accept barrel mounts. Why does the fact that modern miniguns are not man portable mean anything for a 2070 minigun? I would note that modern miniguns do not have gyromounts available, and I'm sure that gas vents will be more advanced in the future. Yes, it's true that modern miniguns can't be fired by people on foot, but neither can a Vindicator, at least not without a full body harness that only partially compensates it... And miniguns lack the brute power of even an HMG, which can accept every mod. You're just telling your players "you can't use the cool thing in a cool way because I'm stuck back here in 2008 and am unwilling to suspend my disbelief even one iota for the sake of cinema." Way to go (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sarcastic.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif) Sure why not, screw the minigun, why not let the Uber Mega Troll have the 20mm Vulcan Rotary Auto Cannon or a 16 Naval Rifle off the New Jersey. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

Look at the HVAR Assault Rifle is specifically states no barrell mounted accesories.

BUT WAIT!!!!!
emphasis mine
RAW Page 142
Heavy Weapons: Any weapon classified as heavy weapon (light, medium, and heavy machine guns and all assault cannons), has all of its uncompensated recoil doubled.....

That means even Big Bubba the War Troll with Uber Munchkin Str and Bod will be having issues with the uncompensated recoil of a minigun.

What is the max compensation you can stack on a weapon that fires 15 rounds or 30 rounds

Lets see
Gas Vent 3 (2 slots)
Gyro Stabilization 6
Shock Pad 1
Electronic Firing 1 (2 slots)
Heavy Barrel 1 (3 slots) not used to slots
Smartgun Link 91 (1 slot)
Strength of 18 4
So we have a recoil compensation of 15 which means unless the firer has a strength of 18+ there will be some uncompensated recoil which will be doubled this is for only firing 15 rounds.

Suppressive fire of 30 rounds means in the above example has 14 points of uncompensated recoil, doubled to a -28 die mod to hitting any target. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

Talk about a 1 Trick Pony. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

Screw carrying and firing, mount it to a vehicle. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

WMS

[krakjen]

Ahem.

Suppressive fire is treated as a wide burst, but for simplicity we assume that the wide burst and recoil modifiers cancel out.
The character laying down suppressive fire simply makes a Success Test using Agility + appropriate firearm skill.

What recoil?

[Clyde]

Miniguns are great for suppressive fire and drone mounting. Against insect spirits they'd be handy because the spirit generally has to close to melee with you and might try coming in swarms. Also, minigun suppressive fire does base damage X 1.5 if it hits which is pretty sweet.

Miniguns would also be good for wrecking barriers and structures, given that damage against those is 2DV per bullet fired.

On a gyromount, I'd use one if I expected to perform some awesome surprise attack. I can't see how you'd surprise someone with a gun that takes a turn to spin up and makes so much noise, though . . . . Maybe a vehicle ambush or something.

[WearzManySkins]

Miniguns are great for suppressive fire and drone mounting. Against insect spirits they'd be handy because the spirit generally has to close to melee with you and might try coming in swarms. Also, minigun suppressive fire does base damage X 1.5 if it hits which is pretty sweet.

Miniguns would also be good for wrecking barriers and structures, given that damage against those is 2DV per bullet fired.

On a gyromount, I'd use one if I expected to perform some awesome surprise attack. I can't see how you'd surprise someone with a gun that takes a turn to spin up and makes so much noise, though . . . . Maybe a vehicle ambush or something.

Unless you have a strength of 18 to get a 4 points of recoil reduction, carrying and firing a mini gun means you will take at least a -2 to hit and more than likely alot more even firing a normal burst.

A suppressive fire burst with the best recoil compensation still gives you -28 dice to hit the broad side of a Obese Troll. Even Mr Lucky would have a hard time hitting with that much negative dice. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

WMS