Okay, now I gave one of my players a minigun to help clear out a ghoul nest and it was totally fucking worthless. It is only useful for suppressive fire? How can you really make use of it when you suffer a -15DP to shoot it? Also, how much recoil compensation do drones have? He also has a Lynx with a Vindicator, and for it to shoot with recoil means it has no dice left to hit. Please help!

You say "only useful for suppressive fire" like it's a bad thing.

It would seem (p. 105, Arsenal) that vehicle-mounted weapons don't suffer recoil modifiers.

Some weapons aren't actually intended to be man portable. But mounted on a vehicle, they're awesome.

(Although I apply the option rule that a vehicle's body equals its recoil compensation, to keep people from slapping minis on small drones.)

Get a gyro (7), a gas vent 3 (3) (which costs the same despite the six barrels), a shock pad (1), a personalized grip (1), and a heavy barrel (1). That leaves you with just a -2. Now, it's kinda weird that a heavy barrel for 6 barrels, and a gas vent system for 6 barrels would actually cost the same as normal, but that's something you need to handwave to make the gun at all useful to people on foot. Which I think it should be, because it's a really cool weapon and will add style to the game, and it's already harder to shoot with less brute force than an HMG, so it's not worth nerfing.

Miniguns should be used for suppressive fire (combined with grenades into opponent's cover) or with gyro stabilization harnesses. You can get an impressive amount of recoil compensation on a minigun if you try. I don't have my books with me, so I can't give you exact numbers.

Of course, the alternative is to suck up the DP mod, shut off your smartlink, blindfold yourself and throw down some edge.

Don't forget the rules for strength adding into recoil reduction.

In my world Miniguns cannot accept barrel mounts (including gas vents).

Which is something I wonder about, there are no other miniguns but the vindicator, even though they have a cool black box describing how they work. Am I just missing the minigun mod? Cause is sure seems like there should be one.

I agree with Fortune, miniguns can not have barrel mounts with gas vents, despite what you see in the Cinema, you can not hand carry and fire one of these beasts. Vehicle Mount are the way to go.

WMS

...unless you're a troll.

Agreed, after all the description on how they work, I couldn't find a way to mod anything else into a minigun.... a minigun shotgun would just be cool!!!

Hell, just load it with blanks - the sound alone should be sufficient to stun people into submission.

it's all just a matter of practice, really *g*
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3174/235265...364a703df_o.jpg

but yes, Miniguns are a bitch to handle . . they were frigging useless in SR3, because getting recoil compensation was harder back then. .
and why the hell does the recoil from strength table go to *thinks* 6, 12, 18 or 24? it's impossible to get a Strength of 18, let alone 24 . . well, okay, with redlining, maybe, but still!

Well, depends on the situation... If you need to spray the crawler drones, then some 'Runners, then some 'copter drones, then the ceiling, then your own 'copter drones, then your own Posse, then your own crawler drones, then take a nap, it's great!

Nice Stunt Photo.

Last thing you need is to stand in one place braced for the recoil. Some Twink Sniper put you into a Body Bag.

With all that muzzled Flash seeing things not directly in front of you will be interesting.

WMS

Actually, from Arsenal:

It hardly go over 18, but even a troll with maxed out strength can't really go that high anyway...

I don't think there's any reason to nerf miniguns. Per RAW, they can accept barrel mounts. Why does the fact that modern miniguns are not man portable mean anything for a 2070 minigun? I would note that modern miniguns do not have gyromounts available, and I'm sure that gas vents will be more advanced in the future. Yes, it's true that modern miniguns can't be fired by people on foot, but neither can a Vindicator, at least not without a full body harness that only partially compensates it... And miniguns lack the brute power of even an HMG, which can accept every mod. You're just telling your players "you can't use the cool thing in a cool way because I'm stuck back here in 2008 and am unwilling to suspend my disbelief even one iota for the sake of cinema." Way to go

"In order to get a Vindicator, your character has to be as cool as the Terminator. That way, I can suspend disbelief enough for cinema."

"Terminator 3?"

"No, either T1 or T2."

"Damn, harder to do. ... OK, to start with, I need a bike. I find a biker bar, and take everyone in it out to steal a single bike."

But only if you go naked and steal also some leather clothing, shades and a cool shotgun.

I made no comment as to portability. I also made no comment in reference to canon. I merely made a statement about barrel mounts and miniguns. In SR3 (and nowadays I assume), miniguns could not accept barrel mounts in the vein of gas-vents and the like, and this is how things work in my SR4 games.

Sure why not, screw the minigun, why not let the Uber Mega Troll have the 20mm Vulcan Rotary Auto Cannon or a 16 Naval Rifle off the New Jersey.

Look at the HVAR Assault Rifle is specifically states no barrell mounted accesories.

BUT WAIT!!!!!
emphasis mine
RAW Page 142
Heavy Weapons: Any weapon classified as heavy weapon (light, medium, and heavy machine guns and all assault cannons), has all of its uncompensated recoil doubled.....

That means even Big Bubba the War Troll with Uber Munchkin Str and Bod will be having issues with the uncompensated recoil of a minigun.

What is the max compensation you can stack on a weapon that fires 15 rounds or 30 rounds

Lets see
Gas Vent 3 (2 slots)
Gyro Stabilization 6
Shock Pad 1
Electronic Firing 1 (2 slots)
Heavy Barrel 1 (3 slots) not used to slots
Smartgun Link 91 (1 slot)
Strength of 18 4
So we have a recoil compensation of 15 which means unless the firer has a strength of 18+ there will be some uncompensated recoil which will be doubled this is for only firing 15 rounds.

Suppressive fire of 30 rounds means in the above example has 14 points of uncompensated recoil, doubled to a -28 die mod to hitting any target.

Talk about a 1 Trick Pony.

Screw carrying and firing, mount it to a vehicle.

WMS

Ahem.

What recoil?

Miniguns are great for suppressive fire and drone mounting. Against insect spirits they'd be handy because the spirit generally has to close to melee with you and might try coming in swarms. Also, minigun suppressive fire does base damage X 1.5 if it hits which is pretty sweet.

Miniguns would also be good for wrecking barriers and structures, given that damage against those is 2DV per bullet fired.

On a gyromount, I'd use one if I expected to perform some awesome surprise attack. I can't see how you'd surprise someone with a gun that takes a turn to spin up and makes so much noise, though . . . . Maybe a vehicle ambush or something.

Unless you have a strength of 18 to get a 4 points of recoil reduction, carrying and firing a mini gun means you will take at least a -2 to hit and more than likely alot more even firing a normal burst.

A suppressive fire burst with the best recoil compensation still gives you -28 dice to hit the broad side of a Obese Troll. Even Mr Lucky would have a hard time hitting with that much negative dice.

WMS

You know, a gattling gun's rate of fire is based on the rotational speed of the barrels. Which, in turn, is based on the speed of the electric motor, which is based on the current provided to it by the batteries (Which geek FAR too quickly, BTW.).

You could just set in a simple rheostat to slow down the rate of fire to a more manageable level. You don't *NEED* to have the Vindicator spit out the rounds at a cyclical rate of 5000-rounds per minute.

You could bring it down to a more manageable level. Sure, it's not as bad ass, and that "Vindicator Spin" will sound slower and deeper, so it won't be exactly like it is on the Trid, but at least you're not slotting off the random flying dragon getting pelted with stray bullets.

Natural limit raised by 1 from Improved Attribute + Natural limit raised by 1 from Genetic Optimization + 10 Normal Max + 6 Augmented Str = 18 Str Troll, so I guess the chart went that high because that is the highest you can get with a character without redlining.

Chris

WMS, Suppressive Fire is not subject to recoil penalties.

Chris

Gatling guns aren't designed for precice shooting IRL, so i don't see why they should in game.

Oh my, I feel like my groups are so deprived, none of us (as players) have ever owned (legally or otherwise) a gatling gun.

Ok Found it.

WMS

Ninja edit Was just about to reply.

Sure they can, they just need improved attribute and gene optimization.
Bah, I got beat to it I see.

If you really need the rate of fire, why not just carry a mg scale revolver cannon instead? That way you don't have to carry around all those extra barrels. And since you are carrying it around, it's not like you will have enough ammo to overheat the barrel anyway. Of course, you could just carry an MG-3 and still get ~1200 rpm for a whole lot less weight, cost, and headache.

I've always disliked that. I ain't a military type but that always seemed wrong to me. Assuming an LMG uses the same caliber rounds as a big Assault Rifle, just fires them from a belt, it should suffer less recoil per round.

Recoil should be determined by caliber and heavier weapons ought to reduce the penalties.

My kids were watching something on Discovery a few weeks ago that featured a Minigun. To be fair it was vehicle mounted but the impression I got was that the Gyroscopic forces generated by spinning the barrels improved accuracy. I seem to recall someone saying that doubling cyclic rof to 3000 improved accuracy 10 fold over a normal HMG.

I remember watching a sequence where they were circling a bunch of cars in the desert at night and unloading this thing with tracer ammo. I distinctly recall thinking 'I wouldn't want to be a Runner taking cover in there.'

Scary biscuits.

That's a movie prop from Resident Evil: Apocalypse, presented by the gunsmith...

And a foregrip makes -1, but I'd argue that the shock pad isn't going to add to the gyro harness, and IIRC, the minigun section says it can't have barrel mounts (not near my book so can't check).


Heavy barrel is [weapon cost] IIRC, so that makes sense.

But if they're only good for suppressive fire, that's not *such* a problem: heard in a cinema after Arnie (goes menkul with it in Predator) "That's a shit-hot way to cut the grass!". I think the problem is that they're not as good at suppressive fire as an HMG, either. So why bother? Which is a shame.

My buddy of mine has a character with a minigun. We use the RAW of allowing gas vents, so he's got -3 for that and the gyro-harness. His Agility is 8 and Heavy Weapons 5 I think, so he gets 13(15 dice with smartlink). His Strength is 7, so he managed the extra +1. So he compensates for 11 points of recoil; the last 4 rounds doubled still gives -8, but he throws 7 dice still to try to hit stuff with it. It's not bad at all and usually the sight of someone with a damn minigun is enough to make the opposition think twice.

Think twice about what? All I'd be thinking was "manabolt/shoot/stab this guy first."

Some guns are just so big I don't see a reason to mount them on a person instead of the drone, not just for recoil compensation purposes, but simply because it's going to be an instant fire magnet.

I recall that the mini used in preadator was modified to use .22 rounds as anuthing larger made it impossible to manuver & fire but Jesse "Sgt. Slaughter/The Body" Ventura. Jesse is big but, he ain't no troll so if it can work IRL I don't see why it can't be modded in SR for man portable use. At worst (stat wise) it would be similar to a machine pistol, just with a greater ROF and no conceal.

the minigun in predator was a movie prop that fired blanks, and it's power source was actualy off camera (run through a cable in Ventura's pants), so it didn't acutaly work IRL.

Pace Daier Mune's entirely valid points (which I'll handwave away by saying that Mr Ventura didn't have a 2050s gyroharness...), you're mistaking calibre for power Machine pistols mostly come in 9mm pistol-ammunition variants. *Assault Rifles* and LMGs are mostly .22 (5.56mm) these days, but they use a much longer cartridge and so have greater muzzle energy.

Not that cartridge type means a fat lot in a game that has "rounds" that fit any weapon smaller than a Cannon...

Actually, with a tripod, (instead of a gyro harness) one is able to get full recoil compensation on the minigun without need of strength enhancement.

Tripod 6
Gas vent 3
Folding Stock 1
Electronic Firing or Personalized Grip 1
Cyberarm Gyromount 3
= 14 RC, and able to fire full auto from the Vindicator with no penalty. Of course, then you have to lug a tripod around and set it up.

Which is the reason for the Vindicator, really. It's a Crew-Served Weapon after all.

I mean, how many Shadowrunners go around lugging a M2-HB .50 BMG Heavy Machine Gun?

...

I just gave Troll players an idea, didn't I?

That would be the Stoner-Ares M107 I guess.

Yep! Or the Ultimax HMG-2.

THere'S the Barret Sniper Rifle, basically the same weapon only in bolt action single shot or single auto, i ain't really sure . . and there's enough trolls lugging around Heavy MG's *g*
Edit: hmm . . could one adapt the Barret or however that thing is spelled for Burst-Fire or Full-Auto? O.o

Much different weapon! The Barret Anti-Material Rifle is not a Heavy Machine Gun, it's "Just" Semi-Auto. Which, frankly, when you're talking about .50 BMG, is bad enough!

There's also Bolt-Action AMRs in the same calibre. The world Sniper's Record was just made recently in Afganistan, BTW, by a Canadian Soldier using one of those. (2,430 metres on the second shot. The first hit a bag in the hands of the target!).

The previous record was 2,250 metres, set by a U.S. Marine in Vietnam.

But, yeah, a Burst-Fire Barret would be killer, even for a Troll!

I always disagreed with the uncompensated recoil on heavy weapons being doubled as well. Judging from RL weapons and SR damage codes, it would seem that:

LMG's are normal AR caliber weapons ie the SAW which is a support maghinegun that fires the same .223 that an m16 uses
MMG's are heavier rifle caliber weapons used in most good sniper rifles and hunting weapons, ie the m60 utilizing .308's
HMG's would be the 50 calibers and the like.

If i have uncompensated recoil from my m16, I would expect alot more 'felt' recoil than with a SAW, due simply to the lack of weight of the m16 comparatively.

I think it would be relatively simple for a trained machinist/gunsmith to adapt a Barrett M82 for autofire. I just can't see why. You would give up the M82's main asset, long range precision, if you fired it full-auto. The weapon might tear itself apart too.

Anyone strong enough and massive enough to manage the M2's recoil won't mind the M2's weight. (90lbs + ammo)