no you would not . . with enough recoil-compensation you add the burst/fa-damage to the precision . . and if anything, i would try to ADD that mode instead of replacing SA with BF or FA . . maybe for those time when you need to make one desperate attempt to make something not like being where you're aiming at . . one of those edge-situations maybe for example *g*

That's what I was thinking.

I can just see some NAN Troll Soldier with an ancient M2HB modified for personal use with a Pistol Grip and a Shoulder Brace. Probably working with the Wildcats...

Is the tripod RC stackable with gyromount RC?

I seem to recall there was quite a lot of stuff that would not stack according to Arsenal, but I don't have my book with me to check.

i don't really know why it would stack . .

I didn't include a gyromount in my recoil figures. Rather, a cyberarm gyromount. Which is in fact a gyro system built into the cyberarms wrist, which would stabilize the users arm more so than the gun, which is where I believe the bonus comes from. Also, I did check with arsenal, and they do stack by RAW.

hmm . . would 2 cyber-arm gyromounts and the gyromount harness stack?

No. The cyberarm gyromount states it is not cumulative with the harness. I'd even argue that 2 arm mounts don't work together, but nothing forbids it. Hrm, one cyberarm with 3 cyberarm gyromounts anyone? +9RC in the arm? (Hell, make it a bulky arm and it can fit 4 for a +12 in your cyberarm alone!)

Its too good if you let it stack with itself, thats why I don't think it does.

If you are using a Tripod, gyro mounts(Harness or Arms) not attached to the tripod do not stack. Weapon mount gyrostabilizaton is a different matter.

Stacking a Tripod with any Gyro mount is PURE CHEESE.

WMS

The Best part is with the Military Armor you can put in cyberarm gyromounts in, and not have to worry about the essence.

Hrm, interesting.... Looking it over, the harness is called gyro-stabilization, and the cyberarm is a gyromount. So, a strict reading, you can't combine tripod + cyberarm gyromount, but you can combine a tripod + gyro-stabilization harness.

Stick the Gyro-Harness onto the Tripod, and there you go. Better degrees of fire! Like the old Anti-Aircraft set-ups for Bren Guns.

Augmentation page 148
Emphasis mine


Note gyromounts is not defined by "some" interpretations. To me it means all gyromounts, harness, arms and weapons gyromounts.

WMS

Obviously some here do not know what gyrostablizaton is and how it works.

WMS

RAW page 311
emphasis mine

Says Gyro-mount to me. So it does not stack with tripods.

WMS

Yes wearz, that is the exact passage I was referring to. Gyromount = Cyberarm Gyromount. Gyro-Stabilization = Harness. Though, Looking at it again, the tripod and harness both take the "Under" slot, and so aren't compatible either.

Edit: You posted while I was looking in the books. The Harness is not named a gyro-mount, but it is described as one. Regardless, they don't work because they take the same slot.

oh i think that a troll with a gyro-harness could heft and fire a vindicator, but they're still going to suffer recoil when firing at things. technology may have progressed over 70 years, but the laws of physics remain the same.

as for heavy barrels and gas vents on a gattling gun, i'd only allow it if the cost was mulitplied by the number of barrels. its only fair.

It can be useful but you have to "want it" as a friend says. For a man potable way to use the Vindicator it MUST be used with a gyro harness. A character I've had been playing for a long time got one. With skill 5 + 8 modified agil. and a 6 mod. strength (one point of natural recoil comp.) you start with zero dice. Then you add the gyro and if you have the money a smart link and you can have 8 dice to hit something with 20P, or take away 14 defense dice from the target with a wide burst.
Now because there are more efficient and cheaper ways to shoot stuff I refer you to the begining of the post, "you have to want it", I know I did

For the record -- just as a child of the 80's, I have to clear this up -- Jesse Ventura wasn't Sgt. Slaughter. The two were completely different wrestler/entertainers, who both just happened to have ridiculously awesome giant chins to match their steroid-enhanced muscles.

Lol, I was going to if you didn't!

Well technically speaking... with magic having returned in 2012...

That's a way to do it! Get a Troll Mage to make a Spell that handles the Recoil. Then he handles the bloody thing like it was a really fast assault rifle!

You mean enhance aim?

Though, with double uncompensated recoil, an actual recoil comp spell would be better.

An actual Recoil Comp spell would be better indeed. Then lock an Enhance Aim spell, and there you go! Sniping and firing Full-Auto at the same time!

Whereupon we have the third spell: "Transmute Security Goon To Hamburg"

hmm . . would levitate keep the minigun in place if you were to fire it? would you let the force or net successes of levitate count as recoil compensation? O.o

I'm pretty sure the force dictates the strength of the telekinesis spell.

To have a high enough strength to reach the RC thresholds in Arsenal you're looking at bloody high force.

hrm, probably . . but a STR6 spell with the 6 hits would lift 6x200 kilo or something . . but STR6 would only generate a Recoil Compensation of 1 @.@

Actually, Im not sure that it translates... Not that I am at home with my books, but I think that levitate is able to carry alot more than someone of force strength. If you went with more specific parameters, note that I have designed a spell since the grimoire lol, but, you could go with physical, personal only, and have it augment your strength only with regards to recoil... minor mind interaction to know what you want to do as you do it without taking an action to command it to move your arms.

Levitate can't shoot the gun, thats what magic fingers is for. And that'd take a high force to get useful RC out of it.

Actually levitate was to hold the weapon steady. You would still be pulling the trigger.

And I'd argue again, levitate is not for fine control. You can hold the gun up yes, but working with levitate to accurately aim it near anything is beyond the control of the levitate spell. Thats what magic fingers is for.

Oh right, gotcha, I wasn't using levitate itself, but thinking of it as a basis for a new spell. I imagine Magic fingers would work well as a base as well, it has the fine control, but levitate has the strength. Either would need altering.

Magic Hands, more Fine-control than Levitate, more Power than magic Fingers, less Power than Levitate, less Fine-control than magic fingers

So many jokes... Just... So many.

Too easy.

bring 'em all, you know you want to *g*

Heavy Weapons Troll: "Only Mage gets to touch Sasha. She needs massage with Magic Fingers and Magic Hands after hard day of shooting Humanis Punks."

...you know what? i'm okay with that. if you're willing to have your big heavy weapons guy team up with the group's spell slinger and make a recoil compensation spell, i don't see any problems with that. whats the point of having advanced technology and magic if you can't comine the two? teamwork and smart planning are a shadowrunner's ultimate weapons.

I've never been quite convinced that the HMG class weapons are actually .50 caliber...

If you take a closer look at the damage codes, they don't quite fit into that range. The only weapon we can safely assume is a .50 BMG is the Barrett 121, which has an SR3 damage code of 14D. This makes sense, given the armor-piercing nature of the cartridge.

The next closest we get in SR3 is the rest of the Sniper Rifle class of weapons, which are 14S. I've always felt this is comparable to a .338 Lapua or some form of Ultra Mag.

The next damage code we have is the HMG, at 10S. We'll skip this for the moment.

The MMG class weapons come in at 9S, the same as the larger sporting rifles. This leads me to believe that they are in the .308 caliber range, or something comparable. This also fits rather loosely with the Ultimax MMG in SR3, which would likely be a 7.62x39.

The LMG comes in at 7S, and using real world weapons as an example, we can assume that this is .223 caliber weapon. As for why it has a higher damage code than the Assault Rifles using the same cartridge, that's a topic for a different debate.

This brings us back to the 10S damage code of the HMG, which is considerably less than the 14D of the Barrett's .50 BMG cartridge. Yet it is just slightly higher than the 9S of the .308 caliber MMG, which leads me to believe that it is actually more along the lines of a .30-06 cartridge, or 7.62x54R. Combining this with the example of the SR3 RPK HMG, which is likely a descendant of the 7.62x54R machinegun of the same name, I feel this caliber more closely fits the damage code than the .50 BMG.

Please keep in mind that all of these examples are using SR3 damage codes, not SR4. I do not have SR4, but would be interested to know how they changed the damage codes of the weapons listed above. Please also keep in mind that this is all subjective, and is based solely on my personal opinion.

With that being said, who's up for an M2-HB with the same damage code as the Barrett?!?

Comments welcome!

Then later on as the troll sits down to eat a sandwich a smart mouth elf comes along taps him in the head with a baseball bat and says "Yo,whats up"

Well, you have the vehicle weapons who do some crazy damage.
Like the Vigilant/Victory autocannon from rigger3. But with damage codes of 18D and 20D respectively they are most likely 20 and 30mm cannons.
That would also make the Panther Cannon a 20mm by the way.

And them I just realized the Vermicide autocannon from the BBB with his 12D damage code is perfectly filling the .50 BMG HMG role.
(A little less damage than the barrett yes, but it's not using some kind of crazy high explosive incendiary armor piercing ammo (yes, they do exist))

I also like to think of the Panther Cannon as being 20mm, but have always wondered how they got it to hold 22 rounds in that tiny magazine...

A four column (double-double-stack) magazine with one in the chamber?

Or else... MAGIC!

ah, yes, the magical clip of howling . . erm, holding *g*