More Twinking Out: Why is Cybermancy necessary when you have so many cool toys to reduce Essence costs? Options

[HentaiZonga]

So, running down the numbers:

Delta-grade cyberware reduces the Essence cost by 50%.
Adapsin reduces it by another 10%.
Getting the 'ware designed as a package reduces it by another 10%.

Given the sheer amount of money poured into cybermancy, it seems like it'd be more cost-effective and reliable to just go ahead and slap those together - and if possible, find people with the Biocompatability Quality for another -10%. If you get all those ducks in a row, you're looking at a total Essence cost reduction of -80% - meaning four full cyberlimbs, a torso, a skull, a chameleon dermal sheath 3, titanum bone lacing, move-by-wire 3, reaction enhancers 3, two eyes, two ears, an encephalon 2, a balance tail, a blood circuit control system, and a skillwire expert system all cost a measly 3.71 Essence - leaving 2.379999 points for stuffing full of Delta-grade bioware and genetech.

It looks like, if you do it right (using up Capacity instead of Essence whenever possible), you can fit every single piece of 'ware in the book into a guy without dropping them below 1 Essence. So as of 2070, is cybermancy really necessary anymore?

[CanRay]

You mean other than Adapsin and Packages being brand spanking new and just on the market, whereas Cybermancy has been around for awhile now?

But there's other benefits from Cybermancy... Evil, sinister benefits that grant power and glory! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/devil.gif)

[Fortune]

Also keep in mind that with Cybermancy, it is not really necessary to use all those expensive Delta implants anyway.

[HMHVV Hunter]

What's Adapsin?

[CanRay]

Adapsin: Augmentation: Page 90.

Brand. Spanking. New.

And untested. Bet it causes cancer.

[Glyph]

Cyberzombies are more like guinea pigs for unscrupulous corporations than optimized sammies. They are mainly NPCs, but there are rules for using them as PCs, with enough drawbacks to discourage most of them from actually doing so (this was far more pronounced in SR3, though).

[CanRay]

Also keep in mind that with Cybermancy, it is not really necessary to use all those expensive Delta implants anyway.

Different costs are involved. And, if you don't have access to a Delta Clinic...

[HentaiZonga]

What's Adapsin?

A new Genetech bioware from Augmentation. Costs 0.20 Essence and 45,000 nuyen, and reduces all cyberware Essence costs by 10%.

[HentaiZonga]

Different costs are involved. And, if you don't have access to a Delta Clinic...

I thought all Cybermancy required access to a Delta Clinic, anyways?

[Fortune]

I understand that, and actually never said anything at all about a Clinic. My point is that you can make a Cyberzombie with only used 'ware if you wanted to. There is no need for Alpha, Beta, and/or Deltaware to be installed, as Essense is not as much of a factor.

[CanRay]

Sorry, meant the 'Ware, not the Clinic. Deltaware systems are expensive not just in the installation, but the building, as well.

Heck, if you wanted to really cheap out, and screw over the Cyberzombie for whatever reason, maybe make the most Sinister Cyberzombie around, use Used Cybernetics for it!

[Larme]

There are all kinds of reasons to cyberzombie. I don't remember the rules entirely, but I'm pretty sure they're a) faster, b) harder to kill, and c) practically immune to magic. Really, magic is the samurai's achilles heel. The cyberzombie is thus a streetsam without any weaknesses. Yeah...

[DocTaotsu]

Adapsin: Augmentation: Page 90.

Brand. Spanking. New.

And untested. Bet it causes cancer.

Course you realize that cybermancy causes cancer...


I can't find it right now but I'm pretty sure all the ware you use in the cybermantic rituals have to be delta.

I will also note that you cybermance the best people you have, not just people with the right genes. I'd imagine they need a specific psyche profile, magical aura, etc to predispose them to... exiting their body and entering a jar full of soul.

And while the methods you mention do mean you can fit more into less, keep in mind that a cyberzombie can fit twice that and that means they can use wares that are beyond what's mentioned in the core books. You want him to shoot bees from his mouth and lasers out of his kneecaps? Well now you've got the room.

With all the new tech they certainly are overkill... but these are corps hitters man, they are by definition overkill.

[krakjen]

Indeed, they are pretty much the walking equivalent of a Thor Shot.

[DocTaotsu]

And you're leaving off the fact that they can call in Thor shots and soak the damage reasonably well. Why is the cyberzombie laughing? Cause he knows how boned you are, that's why.

[krakjen]

That, or because he is a batshit crazy psychopathic maniac.

[DocTaotsu]

Or a combination of the two... But wait! Don't run! Don't run! You'll only die tired!

Man, this makes me want to drop a... NOOOO!!!! YES!!!!

MOOO HOOO HAAAAAA HAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHHAA

*scampers off to the dark corners of the world with his copy of Augmentation and Man&Machine*

[HentaiZonga]

Or a combination of the two... But wait! Don't run! Don't run! You'll only die tired!

Man, this makes me want to drop a... NOOOO!!!! YES!!!!

MOOO HOOO HAAAAAA HAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHHAA

*scampers off to the dark corners of the world with his copy of Augmentation and Man&Machine*

Is there anything from M&M that didn't make it into Augmentation, that would have been useful if it had?

[Stahlseele]

no . . only boosted reflexes for a cheap and quick +1 initiative something *g*
as for cybermancy?
it's still evil, it's still cruise control for cool!

[ElFenrir]

I second the boosted reflexes. What it looks like is they traded this for the ability to buy passes with Edge. Both 3 and 4 had Wired, Move by Wire, Synaptics, Adept Power and Magic. 4e has Edge passes, 3e had Boosted.

Though I have to admit i miss those boosteds. They were great for on the budget initative, even though they had rather crappy preformance overall, couldn't be removed and weren't compatible with some ware. They could stack with Synaptics though.)

[Leofski]

How do the reductions apply? I've always applied each separately leading to a very respectable 64.55% reduction in cost, rather than the 80% used at the top of this thread. On a quick flick through the books I can't a specific ruling, but without a specific clause that the reductions stack I'd treat them individually.

[DocTaotsu]

Man and Machine is one of my favorite game supplements of all time, despites all it's crunchy bits. If I'm going to think up dark awful things involving bioware, cyberware, and cyberzombies, I'd use both books for reference.

[Fortune]

How do the reductions apply? I've always applied each separately leading to a very respectable 64.55% reduction in cost, rather than the 80% used at the top of this thread. On a quick flick through the books I can't a specific ruling, but without a specific clause that the reductions stack I'd treat them individually.

I can't give you the appropriate quote right now, but I know for a fact that the modifiers do indeed stack according to canon. I'm sure you can find a post from Synner discussing this very thing in the Augmentation Q&A thread, if not elsewhere as well.

[Larme]

I'm pretty sure there is a quote somewhere, otherwise we wouldn't know whether taking another 10% off of alphaware, for instance, meant 30% off vs. 10% off of 20% off. I seem to remember reading it somewhere.

[Fortune]

I seem to recall that under the rules for Cybersuites it specifically states that the modifier is cumulative with that of Cyberware Grades. I'm sure that isn't the only mention though.