Genetic Heritage quality, Damn is it ever useless! Options

[last_of_the_grea...]

Okay, so you spend 10 BP's on Genetic Heritage, which is basically 50,000 nuyen if you put it into money. For that you get one genetic modification for free... none of which that you can get to start are worth that much! And they're crappy! You can get better biowear for less! Oh, they try to make up for it by saying it costs 20% less to get more genetic work done. Big deal. How many of you get more than 1 or 2 genetic enhancements during game play, if ever? Each one would save you, maybe, the equivelant of 1 build point! Can you think of a "positive quality" that's more useless?

[WearzManySkins]

Okay, so you spend 10 BP's on Genetic Heritage, which is basically 50,000 nuyen if you put it into money. For that you get one genetic modification for free... none of which that you can get to start are worth that much! And they're crappy! You can get better biowear for less! Oh, they try to make up for it by saying it costs 20% less to get more genetic work done. Big deal. How many of you get more than 1 or 2 genetic enhancements during game play, if ever? Each one would save you, maybe, the equivelant of 1 build point! Can you think of a "positive quality" that's more useless?

I disagree with your statements.

Alot of the characters built with the Heritage adavantage take Genetic Optimization for a starter, also transgenetic genetic enhancements are at 80% cost, like Enhanced Protein Exchange: Pensodyne Neo-EPO, Pensodyne Daredrenaline, Shiawase Vasacon, Genetype Hyper Glucagon and so on. Which can save you 30,000 nuyen in costs.

WMS

[Glyph]

It's not for everyone, but it's biggest advantage is that you get something expensive without taking a hit in your resources - you still have that full 250,000 to spend on other stuff. So you can get genetic optimization, to have the equivalent of the Exceptional Attribute quality for half price, or get Reakt, to get +2 to defense tests on top of any other bonuses. Overall, not a bad deal for 10 points. That's assuming you are spending your full 250,000 on other stuff. If not, might as well use resource BPs to get a genetic treatment instead.

[Cthulhudreams]

Some people interpret that rule as letting you start with a permanent infusion effect, which is dang sweet.

Edit: And genewipe is both useful and more than that right?

[de4dmeta1]

Some people interpret that rule as letting you start with a permanent infusion effect, which is dang sweet.

Edit: And genewipe is both useful and more than that right?

Genewipe is above the normal availability limit, and insanely useful, but still under that 10bp worth of resources, if only slightly.
That brings up another advantage - since you don't purchase your one free genemod, it can be interpreted that it's not subject to normal availability rules. Some might even suggest that since you were born with it, it costs no Essence, though that is the sketchiest of the sketchy as far as arguments go.

So yes, while none of your options for our topical 10bp quality equate to 10bp in resources, there are certain advantages to not actually paying for the genengineering work.

[Cthulhudreams]

Aha, I knew you couldn't get it for some reason. It's very useful the more 'minority report esque' your game is.

My latest game had the perma infusions option available to players but no-one took it up.

[Muspellsheimr]

Advantages:

• You can start with any genetic treatment except Adapsin - and only because that one specifically states it is not available at character creation.
• You gain ~6 Build Points worth of starting equipment that is not limited to your 50 Build Point limit.
• You gain a 20% monetary cost reduction on all future genetic enhancements, many of which are very useful.

Disadvantages:

• You spend 10 Build Points from your 35 limit on qualities for 3 to 9 equivalent in resources.
• The enhancement *does* still cost essence.

I am not personally impressed with the quality, and do not see any of my characters taking it. I do however, see some uses for it, and so can understand why it may be taken. By far not the worst quality *cough* Astral Sight \ Spell/Spirit Knack *cough*, but far from the top of the list.

[Sombranox]

Even though it was stated by one of the devs in the Augmentation Q&A thread that it _does_ cost essence, I house ruled that the it doesn't to make it more attractive for players. I even took it a step further to give the 20% discount not only to cost of future gene treatments, but to essence cost from those treatments, to encourage them to look at getting more.

I just love gene freaks though, so I'm biased towards making it nicer. Otherwise, yeah, it's only useful for going past 250K in resources.

[ArkonC]

Okay, so you spend 10 BP's on Genetic Heritage, which is basically 50,000 nuyen if you put it into money. For that you get one genetic modification for free... none of which that you can get to start are worth that much! And they're crappy! You can get better biowear for less! Oh, they try to make up for it by saying it costs 20% less to get more genetic work done. Big deal. How many of you get more than 1 or 2 genetic enhancements during game play, if ever? Each one would save you, maybe, the equivelant of 1 build point! Can you think of a "positive quality" that's more useless?

What about Genecrafted?
After getting this one, you need to spend 25 BPs on genetech just to break even, and no catching up later since it only applies during chargen...
It's like a cheaper, actually useless version of Genetic Heritage...

[HentaiZonga]

Advantages:

• You can start with any genetic treatment except Adapsin - and only because that one specifically states it is not available at character creation.
• You gain ~6 Build Points worth of starting equipment that is not limited to your 50 Build Point limit.
• You gain a 20% monetary cost reduction on all future genetic enhancements, many of which are very useful.

Disadvantages:

• You spend 10 Build Points from your 35 limit on qualities for 3 to 9 equivalent in resources.
• The enhancement *does* still cost essence.

I am not personally impressed with the quality, and do not see any of my characters taking it. I do however, see some uses for it, and so can understand why it may be taken. By far not the worst quality *cough* Astral Sight \ Spell/Spirit Knack *cough*, but far from the top of the list.

*nod* I flat-out disallow the Astral Sight Quality. Anyone who takes it gets the Adept quality instead, with their 1 PP thrown into Astral Perception.

[Muspellsheimr]

*nod* I flat-out disallow the Astral Sight Quality. Anyone who takes it gets the Adept quality instead, with their 1 PP thrown into Astral Perception.

My solution, to actually make it useful, is Astral Sight gives the ability to perceive, but does not give a magic rating, and so cannot be lost when you loose essence.

[WearzManySkins]

What about Genecrafted?
After getting this one, you need to spend 25 BPs on genetech just to break even, and no catching up later since it only applies during chargen...
It's like a cheaper, actually useless version of Genetic Heritage...

I disagree with your statements.

If you are building a Genie, this advantage is most useful and can be teamed up with Genetic Heritage for some good cost reductions ie 40%.

WMS

[adamu]

My solution, to actually make it useful, is Astral Sight gives the ability to perceive, but does not give a magic rating, and so cannot be lost when you loose essence.

Played around with that fix - particularly attractive because it means you don't necessarily lose the Astral Sight the moment you step into anywhere with a background count of 1 - which is most places runners go, if we use the Street Magic examples as our guide.
But then you've got an Astral Perceiver that, on the other hand, is totally immune to even a background count of 6. Cool if that's not a problem for you.

But basically, the Quality is completely and utterly broken, like most in Street Magic.

[ElFenrir]

Perhaps if Genetic Heritage cost 5 BP instead, it would work out more-OR it gave up to 50k in resources, keeping the 10 BP cost.

I mean, a positive quality should indeed be just that. Just like a negative one. IMO, a good rule of thumb I use to see if a + or - quality is broken(in a way that the positive one is mostly useless-the negative one too crippling) is just how many people never want to take it. Is an addiction bad? Sure, it can be, but it's workable. It's a good, balanced, negative quality, IMO. Uncouth? Ouch. Likewise, I see things often like First Impression and Guts; two nice positive ones that aren't too overboard at all. But yeah, Genetic Heritage? Astral Sight? Spell Knack? Don't see em so often.

[Larme]

I think Glpyh nailed it. The barrier for sammies is not points, it's the resources cap. Being able to take something like genetic optimization without knocking 1/5 off your total resources is precious for the tricked out samurai. Improving the quality would make it useful for other people as well. But it would make it a "duh" choice for sammies. Duh is bad guys (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Kyoto Kid]

...Vi has it (works in her backstory as well). She has both the Genetic Optimisation (Logic) and PuSHeD trangenic, and is in the process of getting REAKT. Seems to work pretty well & takes way less essence than an Encephalon.

[last_of_the_grea...]

The quality DOES NOT allow you to ignore availability. You can house rule it that it does, but officially, no. The note in adaption is a suggestion for houseruling type people.

[Muspellsheimr]

The quality DOES NOT allow you to ignore availability. You can house rule it that it does, but officially, no. The note in adaption is a suggestion for houseruling type people.

Genetic Heritage
Such an inheritance means the character can start play with one genetic modification for free

Finally, no piece of gear purchased at character creation can have a rating higher than 6 or an Availability higher than 12

Yes, Genetic Heritage does indeed ignore the availability restrictions.

[Larme]

You're assuming that "purchase" and "for free" are mutually exclusive opposites. But what if "purchase" refers to build points? It could go both ways. But please don't insult our intelligence by pretending that the RAW solves this question for us all nice and neat.

[last_of_the_grea...]

Until I see something official the availability rules cannot be gotten around without houseruling.

[Muspellsheimr]

BBB, page 84 - gear section. Availability restrictions are placed only on gear purchased with Nuyen. Anything that allows you to gain a piece of equipment outside of points spent in Resources is not restricted by availability, unless specifically stated otherwise.

[WearzManySkins]

BBB, page 84 - gear section. Availability restrictions are placed only on gear purchased with Nuyen. Anything that allows you to gain a piece of equipment outside of points spent in Resources is not restricted by availability, unless specifically stated otherwise.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif) Slam and Dunk there Muspellsheimr.

WMS

[last_of_the_grea...]

I like you, Muspellsheimr. You made it easier for me to make my characters even more powerful! Woe to any shadowrun GM i ever get. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[WearzManySkins]

You're assuming that "purchase" and "for free" are mutually exclusive opposites. But what if "purchase" refers to build points? It could go both ways. But please don't insult our intelligence by pretending that the RAW solves this question for us all nice and neat.

INSULT INSULT!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

WMS

[WearzManySkins]

BBB, page 84 - gear section. Availability restrictions are placed only on gear purchased with Nuyen. Anything that allows you to gain a piece of equipment outside of points spent in Resources is not restricted by availability, unless specifically stated otherwise.

so with Genetic Heritage one could get the Transgenetic that reduces essence costs Adpsen(sp).

WMS