Greenhorns in Seattle, The Out of Character Thread Options

[JoelHalpern]

Heading for a long flight. It may be Sunday before I am awake enough to post an IC action.
But I(Mack) am at Init 9, so all the bad guys except Crull (who I don't want to shoot anyway) goes before me.

Joel

[Nigel]

Upon coming back from D&D tonight, I realized that my click had dragged a few pixels and I didn't actually click Add Reply, merely grazed it. I had a post ready to go up which was basically me staying out of sight and getting to the van, but it looks like Imp got that taken care of. Sorry for not ending up posting, completely my mistake. I was in a rush to get out the door (I was about to miss my bus) so I didn't watch completely. I'll post again next time I roll around.

[imperialus]

I'm going to be AWOL for a big chunk of the weekend too. I'll try and post later tonight though so Mack can post Joels actions ASAP.

[Intro]

Ah, reading through the rules more closely, while calling a shot is a free action, you have to do it along with taking aim, which Takashi did not do. I dunno how you want to fix it. The simplest way seems to be to say that the ork had good cover, and just use the same dice rolls (extra -2 for good cover making up for the -2 called shot), and take off 2DV from what I posted. I can edit the post however you suggest.

Also, posting may be sporadic as apparently Nvidia made a whole batch of bad GPUs including, as of today, mine. But work and school have internet aplenty, so we'll see how it goes.

[Dusty Ghost]

Also, posting may be sporadic as apparently Nvidia made a whole batch of bad GPUs including, as of today, mine. But work and school have internet aplenty, so we'll see how it goes.

REALLY? Any idea how to find out if mine are one of them?

[Intro]

REALLY? Any idea how to find out if mine are one of them?

Well, the Apple forum denizens have settled on the 8600M GTs from June/July 2007 being affected (failing at very high rates), and Nvidia had a very uninformative press release saying they'd be taking a charge of ~$200M against possibly recalling a bad batch of chips. It seems to be mostly 8400M and 8600Ms from what I've read. Dell released an update for laptops with those GPUs last week:

http://www.electronista.com/articles/08/07....nv.video.bugs/

But yeah, it's a heat issue, and it's summer in Boston. Once it's fixed, I shall be keeping the air conditioner on when the laptop's on, methinks.

[Dusty Ghost]

PHEW! Mines am 8800gt dual. so with luck, it just missed that batch. Thanks for sharing. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Intro]

PHEW! Mines am 8800gt dual. so with luck, it just missed that batch. Thanks for sharing. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Yeah, it's pretty troublesome. Just missed warranty by a month, too. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif) I suppose that's what I get for getting a laptop when I moved out here. Sure it's a little smaller, but it's a lot harder to troubleshoot and swap out components when everything's integrated and you need specialized screwdrivers to even open the case.

Anyway, went by the shop today and I'll get it back in a few days to a week, most likely to have the joy of reinstalling everything. Oh well, I suppose it's a good warning to take better care of the little thing. At least it seems likely that AmEx will do its warranty extension thing, so I won't ultimately have to pay for it, but sending off papers and whatnot is more troublesome than when something's under the original warranty.

[JoelHalpern]

A couyple of nitpicky but important rules interpretation questions (at least important if I don't end up in big trouble before I can act (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

As I read the Full Burst rules, I ought to be able to fire a wide full burst (a complex action) at the katana wielder without risking hitting our patron (if I try that on the Orc, I would almost certainly hit our patron.) Is that how you rule it?

Also, I don't remember, where we ended up on the extra recoil compensation for strength?

Thanks,
Joel / Mack

PS: It seems obvious to me that if I were so foolsih as to use suppression fire, I would likely hit our patron.

[imperialus]

Ah, reading through the rules more closely, while calling a shot is a free action, you have to do it along with taking aim, which Takashi did not do. I dunno how you want to fix it. The simplest way seems to be to say that the ork had good cover, and just use the same dice rolls (extra -2 for good cover making up for the -2 called shot), and take off 2DV from what I posted. I can edit the post however you suggest.

Also, posting may be sporadic as apparently Nvidia made a whole batch of bad GPUs including, as of today, mine. But work and school have internet aplenty, so we'll see how it goes.

What I was going to suggest is that if the Ork succeeded on his full dodge roll he would have managed to get Ice to take the bullet for him. Fortunately for you he rolled 3 hits instead of 4.

Anyhow. I'm heading to bed. I just wanted to get those soak rolls up tonight. I'll post the actions for Katana Man, the gangers and the cops tomorrow.

Oh, and Joel, yeah, a wide burst could be targeted specifically at the Katana man. A burst and/or suppression on the Ork would hit Ice, no question.

IIRC RC for strength is just my usual house rule. -1 for Str6, -2 for 8, -3 for 10.

[JoelHalpern]

When you post their actions, could you include at the end some indication of range? (I have no idea whether we started out 10 meters apart, 1/2 a block=50 meters, or most of a block apart.)

Thanks,
Joel

PS: I can well believe you specified, but I can't seem to figure it out.

[Dusty Ghost]

Hey guys,

I'm sure at some point Sybercat handed us all some money over, for some reason this is not on my Character Sheet and I can't find the post.
I'm sure she was talking with a silly accent when she was giving it to us.

I could have dreamt this of course. It's been known to happen... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sarcastic.gif)

[Intro]

What I was going to suggest is that if the Ork succeeded on his full dodge roll he would have managed to get Ice to take the bullet for him. Fortunately for you he rolled 3 hits instead of 4.

Just wondering how that worked since I ended up with 6 hits. Two on the first roll, and then 4 more rerolling failed dice w/ Edge, and there were no hits in the rightmost couple of dice for either for range and whatnot. I seem to have missed something.

Alex

[imperialus]

Just wondering how that worked since I ended up with 6 hits. Two on the first roll, and then 4 more rerolling failed dice w/ Edge, and there were no hits in the rightmost couple of dice for either for range and whatnot. I seem to have missed something.

Alex

*headsmack* Count all the dice Dave, not just the rerolls...

Sorry. His final DV is 4S not 2S. I'll fix that IC post. That was my screwup.

Dusty: It was 10,000 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) From post #294. And yes, she was talking in a stupid accent. I don't blame you for loosing track of it. That was the mammoth post I did where I kept hopping back between you guys and Takishi to get the group together.

[imperialus]

When you post their actions, could you include at the end some indication of range? (I have no idea whether we started out 10 meters apart, 1/2 a block=50 meters, or most of a block apart.)

Thanks,
Joel

PS: I can well believe you specified, but I can't seem to figure it out.

I think in my mind I might have specified... but it never quite made it from my head to the keyboard. At any rate, you're basically across the street from them. The alley comes to a T intersection with the street that Ice's shop is on. The shop itself is off to the right just far enough that you can a: use the wall as cover, and b: were unable to see the gangers from any further down the alley.

Everyone is within 5 (give or take) meters though. Effectively short range all around though.

[JoelHalpern]

...
Everyone is within 5 (give or take) meters though. Effectively short range all around though.

Ouch. That is going to make things much harder for me.
As I read the rules, if the swordsman gets to me [Mack] (and I don't see anything that will stop him), I do not have the option of full defense (gymnastic does not apply, I do not have a melee weapon in hand, and I do not have dodge skill.)
Also, it appears that if I try to fire the gun at him, I will be at -3 for being in melee, even though my melee opponent is my target (assuming I am still standing after he probably cuts me in half.) Yeah, I am feeling a bit pessimistic at the moment.

Obviously, we blew it and came at this from the wrong place. But so it goes. (I would have liked to have been about a block further away. But if wishes were horses and all of that.) We can worry about why we did it wrong later. For now, we have to survive this fight, and preferably accomplish something along the way.

Joel / Mack

[Intro]

Yeah, that's a lot closer than I was thinking/hoping, too. But as I read it:

Say Katana Man ™ (I like Sweeps description, with the capitalization and all) is 5m away. With 3 IP he can only move 3.3 m per pass unless he runs. I don't remember much about rules for melee (and I'm at work), but I seem to remember it's a complex action. Even if it's not, he still gets the -2 for running, yes? So I think you could be mostly okay for the first pass at least, Joel. If he doesn't close, you've got one full-auto shot, at least.

But yeah, at this close range, the priority in my head has shifted from "stopping Crull getting away with Icelady" to "have the team survive". Depending on how convoluted the path of the alley we jsut came out of is, that might not be so hard since Mack can outrun them handily (and if it's twisty stay out of sight) and Takashi and Sweeps have grapple guns and can get up to a roof to open up some space between us. But it's still not a good situation to be in, to be sure.

[Dusty Ghost]

run away?

EDIT:

Sorry that was aimed at Joel. What I meant was get some distance between you and katana guy?

[JoelHalpern]

That is a weird effect of the movement rules. If KatanMan does not declare "running" (which takes a free action) then he reaches me during 1 IP if he has two IP, but is more than a meter away if he has three IP per round. (I'm guessing three IP from the numbers, but it could actually be he has four IP.)
However, the way it looks, that won't matter. He will (I guess) charge. That will negate the -2 for running, and instead give him +2 dice for charging. At a run, even if he has 4 actions, he covers 6 meters. Oh well, best to wait and see what actually happens, instead of imaging the sky falling. (It is an odd effect of play by post that we have so much time to foresee problems, when we can not do anything about them.)

Joel

PS: It is too bad that any self-respecting Orc has more than 4 body, or you might have been able to knock down the one Orc. Nice shot anyway.

[Intro]

PS: It is too bad that any self-respecting Orc has more than 4 body, or you might have been able to knock down the one Orc. Nice shot anyway.

Yeah, actually I figured that I was going to until I actually, you know, read the rules and saw that a called shot also requires a "Take Aim" action.

He's got 3 (it was noted in one of the initiative posts). The ork has 2, all the rest have 1. But yeah, I was conflating the rules for running and sprinting, and he does seem to be less than 8 meters away.

(Possibly another foolish misrecollection of the rules:) As I remember it, you can use gymnastics for a melee dodge. It's just that it can only apply to one of melee or ranged in any single round, not both at the same time like dodge. So the sky's still hanging up there.

[JoelHalpern]

Yeah, actually I figured that I was going to until I actually, you know, read the rules and saw that a called shot also requires a "Take Aim" action.

He's got 3 (it was noted in one of the initiative posts). The ork has 2, all the rest have 1. But yeah, I was confusing running for sprinting, and he does seem to be less than 8 meters away.

(Possibly another foolish misrecollection of the rules:) As I remember it, you can use gymnastics for a melee dodge. It's just that it can only apply to one of melee or ranged in any single round, not both at the same time like dodge. So the sky's still hanging up there.

Looking at the melee rules, my base defense is supposed to be Reaction + one of Weapon, Unarmed, or Dodge skill. Full defense lets you add dodge skill again. There is a note at the end of the Full Defense section that you can use Gymnastic dodge instead of Dodge for full defense. I suppose the GM could rule that I can use gymnastic dodge for the base defense. I wonder where the Ingram would end up? I wonder where I would end up?
My actual inclination is to take the damage from the sword, and see whether I can hit him at that point. (He should have a -3 penalty to defense against guns, and I should have -3 for firing while in melee, and -2 for damage.) Assuming I go with that, the question is whether to go with a wide full burst (-2 recoil, so only 4 dice, but he should be unable to dodge at -12 dice) or a wide long burst (6 dice, -8 dice dodge) followed by a short burst (only 4 dice, but could be wide or narrow. At wide it is -5 dice dodge, plus any penalty from the first hit.)

Joel / Mack

PS: Of course, this also depends upon what the other gang members do when KatanaMan engages me. If they shoot me as well, all bets are off.

[imperialus]

Ok... next IC is up. I'll get the cops and Sybercat for Team Van up later.

Joel: Unfortunatly you can't use gymnastics as your base defense. You can however use the Ingram to parry in place of your knives. What I'll rule in that case is that your gun will jam and be unavailable until you have time to fieldstrip it. The other option is to drop the Ingram and use quickdraw to try and get a knife out in time. This would let you do a straight forward knife fight. Remember that he has the same reach as you, it would be a fairly level playing field skill wise and you hit a whole lot harder.

Of course there is also the option of simply taking the sword hit, rolling your reaction, hoping that you soak whatever damage is left over, and then forcing Katana Man to do the chaingun shimmy. Remember he only has 4 dice worth of reaction left for dodging (though if he does opt for full dodge he does have a dodge skill of 4 as well). It's risky, but it would probably end the fight pretty quickly.

[JoelHalpern]

Thanks Imperialus. That's fits with how I read the situation.
I will be curious to see which choice the swordsman makes, since at least briefly he has no good choices.
What I am really hoping is that either he uses full defense (I get to shoot again) or the second shot knocks him down.
Of course, the way things have been going....

Also, can Mack at least shift enough that the wall protects him from the rest of the firing?

Thanks,
Mack / Joel

PS: part of the reason for the choice is that I actually have only 1 more damage in hand to hand than he does. And he has at least 3 dice more than I do. So at is at best even, and probably slightly to his advantage for me to engage in melee.

[imperialus]

Ok... did the rolls for the cops. I think I crossed all me t's and dotted the i's. Let me know if it isn't clear.

Those gangers sure couldn't roll for shit there... One success on a dodge roll and they would have lived... Sad really.

[Intro]

imperialus,

Just wondering how you worked out the recoil for the gangers shooting and me and Sweeps

Ganger 3, Targeting Sweeps: First Shot: 3 round, narrow Burst: Agility 5, Automatics 3, Smartlink 2, Cover -2, firing from cover -1, -2 recoil, 2 Recoil comp (7d6.hits(5)=3) Base DV: 9P. No AP.

Second Shot: 3 round, narrow Burst: Agility 5, Automatics 3, Smartlink 2, Cover -2, firing from cover -1, -3 recoil, 1 Recoil comp (5d6.hits(5)=3) Base DV: 9P. No AP.

The first shots make sense. For the second, it seems like it should be -5 recoil, and still 2 recoil comp, meaning that they get one less die apiece. http://www.shadowrun4.com/resources/faq.shtml#3
I can see where you'd get the -3 recoil for a second short burst, 'cause the rules in the BBB aren't the most clearly written (plus the numbers they give in the example are wrong, per the errata), but I don't think I've seen anything on less recoil comp for second shots.

Not trying to be rules-lawyerly or what-have-you, just trying to get a handle on what I can expect from people shooting large quantities of metals at us at high velocities.

Alex

*EDIT* Also, I take it they're firing explosive ammo? Because they look like they're starting with a base DV of 6P before hits.

This post has been edited by Intro: Aug 5 2008, 07:49 AM