Greenhorns in Seattle, The Out of Character Thread Options

[imperialus]

Hrm... actually my math works the same way. I just calculate it a little differently is all. I'll explain (or at least try to)

There is a total of 3 recoil compensation for the Ingram Smartgun X, a Gas Vent II and a Folding Stock.
Firing two short, narrow bursts puts a total of six bullets in the air for a total recoil of 5.

First Burst: Base recoil was two (first shot never counts), Gas Vent provides two points RC, which cancels that out.
Second Burst: Since the first two shots were already compensated I didn't count them. This means the base recoil for the second burst was 3 but there was only one point of RC left, in the form of the stock. This left two points uncompensated recoil.

Don't ask me why I add up recoil this way... I just always have. Basically I just keep subtracting from the total RC, rather than adding to the total recoil.

And no, the base DV of 6P is me being a moron and reading the wrong bloody weapons table. Thanks for the catch. I don't know how I did that...

[JoelHalpern]

Hrm... actually my math works the same way. I just calculate it a little differently is all. I'll explain (or at least try to)
...

That matches the effect I understand you need to end up with. I think it will even produce the same results when trying to figure out whether there is uncompensated (doubled) recoil.

Joel

[Intro]

Sure, that makes sense once it's explained. I just order the math in my head differently, so it just looked kind of odd to me at first.

[imperialus]

The gangers damage rolls are fixed.

Oh, and Joel, since you're here just so you know I haven't forgotten about you. I'm just going to post the response to your actions once we get to you in initiative order.

[Dusty Ghost]

Sorry for the late reply, I'll get my response rolls up tonight.

[JoelHalpern]

The gangers damage rolls are fixed.

Oh, and Joel, since you're here just so you know I haven't forgotten about you. I'm just going to post the response to your actions once we get to you in initiative order.

No problem. I am back home. Yes, the Van crew with higher initiative should be resolved before me. (I figured since I was in a different place, there was no risk of interactions affecting what I choose, or what they choose. I should probably have posted my soak, and left the rest till after the others had a chance.)

Sorry,
Joel

[imperialus]

Oh, no worries. The quote button exists for a reason (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Dusty Ghost]

I sorry, I'm totally confused.

You're using narrow burst on the second shot at Sweeps. you said it was 8P DV.

I got 2 hits and you got 3 hits in our opposed tests (I've not posted it yet as my IC is not finished and I'm confused)

So that makes 5P damage for bullets, +2 for narrow burst, +1 for net hits. so 8P DV, right?

The rules say on page 142 for Narrow bursts "Note that this DV modifier does not apply when comparing the DV to the armour rating."

my armour rating is 8 ballistic for an armour jacket

so this is now stun damage, correct?

I then rolled 3 on my damage resistance test. So I get 5S damage?

Here are my rolls to check before I post up my IC:

[ Spoiler ]

1st shot at Sweeps:Reaction 6 + 1 Jazz to not getting shot (7d6.hits(5)=3) fogot about -1 for reaction slowdown due to 3P damage alreadyso knock off last dice and that makes 2 hits! So one NET hit.
DV resistence test (10d6.hits(5)=2) 6S Damage!

Second Shot:
6 reaction +1 Jazz second shot (7d6.hits(5)=2) 1 hit
Balistic Armour Jacket 8 + 2 body (10d6.hits(5)=3) so 5S damage? fogot to take -1 for second dodge and - 1 for reaction slowdown due to 3P damage already. So now at 6S damange!

3rd suppressing fire Sweeps not moving so no risk.

Sorry guys, just finding myself running from one page to another trying to suss this out.

[imperialus]

Right you are...

You forgot to subtract one from your second dodge roll for getting shot at a second time though.

[Dusty Ghost]

Bugger, if I take the last dice off that roll then that makes for 6S damage. Crapola, I'm gonna have a headache now.

EDIT:
Hey wait! I didn't knock off -1 to my reactions for having 3P damage already. OH! SHIT this is gonna be baaaaaaad!
amending rolls as needed now.

[Dusty Ghost]

Do I have to take -1 to my damage resistence test for having 3P of damage too?

[Intro]

Do I have to take -1 to my damage resistence test for having 3P of damage too?

No, taking damage you always get your full dice. (Don't remember if it's the only thing, but if not definitely one of the few.)

[Dusty Ghost]

Right!

Well despite that, Sweeps is now knocked out. He has over shot his stun boxes by two. so will no doubt be taking physical damage in the next action round.

[Intro]

Sorry, Dusty, but you're not done with the headache yet. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

For the first shot, the BASE base DV of an SMG is 5P, and the three hits from the ganger is what imperialus put up as 8P. So your two hits on a reaction roll knock it down to 6P, and then your two hits on the soak knock it down to 4S.

For the second same thing. One hit on your reaction means it's 7P, then two hits for the soak means it ends up as 5S. So you're still knocked out, but at least no physical damage rolls over this time

EDIT: Never mind, man, never mind. You're still standing! Wobbly as all get out, but still. I was thinking of your 9 physical boxes filling up, but stun goes from willpower.

This post has been edited by Intro: Aug 6 2008, 04:07 PM

[JoelHalpern]

Sorry, Dusty, but you're not done with the headache yet. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

For the first shot, ... 4S.

For the second ... 5S.
EDIT: Never mind, man, never mind. You're still standing! Wobbly as all get out, but still. I was thinking of your 9 physical boxes filling up, but stun goes from willpower.

This leads to the question of what next. Takashi did beautifully.

Assuming that KatanaMan falls, but is not out, Takashi (and Sweeps) could (should?) shoot him again.

The question is how to stop the suppressive fire so we can get out there and grab Crull and IceLady.
Yeah, the gangers have only one action. But an oddity of the rules is that suppressive fire from a slow character lasts longer (for the same number of bullets) as that from a fast character. Presumably, given how close together we are, and basically in the alley mouth, if any of us try to step out we have to avoid / take damage from both 5P suppressive shots. (not out of the question.)
Does it help any if I throw one (or even two) flashbangs? They are 6S, -3AP, with no range modification for distance from my target. If I throw them past the car, I should be able to get them in range of the gangers, and out of range of us. (I am not sure if it will help us enough, as we will still be acting during the suppression, and it will hurt IceLady. But presumably not too badly. Also would need to check with Imperialus to confirm that this would be a blind throw (-6) plus damage (-2) but no other modifiers.)

Takashi, you have any more tricks up your sleeve?

Mack / Joel

[Intro]

Yeah, the gangers have only one action. But an oddity of the rules is that suppressive fire from a slow character lasts longer (for the same number of bullets) as that from a fast character. Presumably, given how close together we are, and basically in the alley mouth, if any of us try to step out we have to avoid / take damage from both 5P suppressive shots. (not out of the question.)

Well, the way it was described it seemed to me that the suppressive fire was only focusing on Sweeps and me (rationalize it as they're being more controlled than suppressive fire in the RAW to avoid shooting KatanaMan.)

I was figuring that if I knocked the guy suppressing me down on my next IP, that would stop his suppressing effect on me because otherwise I'd have to avoid his rather accurate suppressive fire for 2 more IPs (No support for this in the rules, but it seems logical). KatanaMan is the more dangerous target, but I think it's worth having more freedom of action. Unless KatanaMan is positioned such that I can shoot him without breaking cover. Another thing to consider is how soon the ork can get Icelady into the car. If he can get her inside in his next IP, then it might be worth it to go after him, even.

No tricks, just a pistol and a couple points of edge.

[Intro]

EDIT: Never mind, man, never mind. You're still standing! Wobbly as all get out, but still. I was thinking of your 9 physical boxes filling up, but stun goes from willpower.

Sweeps goes down into a pile of trash.

Oh yeah, knockdown. When I said still standing, I meant flying into a heap of rubbish.

[imperialus]

Well, the way it was described it seemed to me that the suppressive fire was only focusing on Sweeps and me (rationalize it as they're being more controlled than suppressive fire in the RAW to avoid shooting KatanaMan.)

They are being a bit more controlled yes. This is largely because we don't have a battlemat, and trying to calculate overlapping fields of fire and the like would be next to impossible in a play by post.

Anyhow, at the end of the day, it looks like Sweeps is still standing, but barely, and he has a -4 to his dice rolls. -1 due to physical wounds, -3 due to stun damage.

Mack, go ahead and toss the flashbang if you want. I'll at least rule that it ends their suppression early in addition to the stun damage... after all, in real life that's exactly what they're supposed to do.

Anyhow, the next IC is up. Sybercat's action was to chat it up with you guys. This brings us to Padre. Then the Ork with Team Ice, Mack, the Van Gangers, and finally Crull. Just so you know Mickle, you might want to cover the cop. She's pretty vulnerable right now and has two gangers aiming SMG's at her. They'd be at medium range and have no cover if you do want to shoot.

*edit* Oh, and Sweeps is out of sight for the gangers. You don't need to worry about them shooting at him anymore unless he sticks his head up.

[Intro]

Mack, go ahead and toss the flashbang if you want. I'll at least rule that it ends their suppression early in addition to the stun damage... after all, in real life that's exactly what they're supposed to do.

Well, if Mack does that instead of the LMG bursts, I'm perfectly content to shoot KatanaMan twice while he's not looking, which should hopefully free up Mack to fire more accurately in his next IP without the ranged from melee modifier.

(And I read called shot more fully last night, such that I now believe that it is just a free action. The "may Take Aim and call a shot" part of the BBB just means that the two actions are compatible - i.e. you don't have to take a shoot action just after a call shot action, not that the two have to go together. If I'd known that, I probably would have knocked down the ork at the beginning, until I reread and second-guessed myself and whatnot. Ah well, so it goes. In any case, I'm reasonably confident that I won't be changing my mind on how it works in the future, which isn't nothinig.)

[JoelHalpern]

Well, if Mack does that instead of the LMG bursts, I'm perfectly content to shoot KatanaMan twice while he's not looking, which should hopefully free up Mack to fire more accurately in his next IP without the ranged from melee modifier.
...

I stick with the LMG burst (what I already posted) for my first IP.
Trying to throw grenades out of melee just is a recipe for disaster.
What I am hoping is that KatanaMan will have some trouble with the LMG shots, which will give me a chance to do something else on my second IP of the round. (throw the grenade. I don't know if Takashi has two or three actions. In any case, on the next round he will go before the gangers. And if the suppressive fire is stopped, you can accomplish something. Eventually, I expect we have to run in and grab the two targets.)
Some of this is confusion caused by my posting slightly ahead, and trying to think ahead. (Sometimes this causes me to borrow trouble.)

Joel

[Intro]

Some of this is confusion caused by my posting slightly ahead, and trying to think ahead. (Sometimes this causes me to borrow trouble.)

Yeah, me too. The suppressive fire throws things off since its effects don't map cleanly onto IPs, so my thinking about the timing of things was a little off.

But in any case, thinking through everything, your plan makes sense.

[Dusty Ghost]

*edit* Oh, and Sweeps is out of sight for the gangers. You don't need to worry about them shooting at him anymore unless he sticks his head up

I think Sweeps is going to stay down for now. Consider him severely shaken by that attack. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Thanks for helping me out with that confusion. Sorry if it held things up.

[Dusty Ghost]

For the first shot, the BASE base DV of an SMG is 5P, and the three hits from the ganger is what imperialus put up as 8P. So your two hits on a reaction roll knock it down to 6P, and then your two hits on the soak knock it down to 4S.

I thought narrow bursts increase the base DV+2.

Page 142 of BBB:

"Narrow bursts are intended to inflict a target with maximum damage. Narrow bursts increase the attackers DV by +2.
Note that this DV modifier does not apply when comparing the DV to the armor rating"

So I think I was right the first time on the 6S damage for first shot and now 7S for second. Am I wrong?

[Intro]

Oh yeah, you're totally right. I figured that the base DV that imperialus had posted referred to the 3 net hits, since 8DV didn't make sense otherwise, so I forgot about the burst. But if it was the mistaken 6DV that he had originally thought + the 2DV for a burst, then that explains it too. So yeah, it'd work out to be 7 and 5, but back to 12 in any case. So now you are unconscious in the rubbish pile again. Sorry.

You had the right idea all the way up at the top of the page, and then imperialus and I started correcting things.

[Dusty Ghost]

lol ok.

so all my stun boxes are gone. +2 physical overflow.

Imperialus, you may need to amend your IC with regard to Sweeps. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)