Twinked weapons, What have people done with Arsenal? Options

[Muspellsheimr]

My group does not have a problem putting gas vent on burst-fire heavy pistols. And adding SA to a BF weapon is a small modification. And I am not sure which gun it is, but I recently fired a pistol with a gas-vent type system in RL, so it is certainly possible.

And for those of you who go purely by the book on this, Personalized Grip still brings the compensation to 3 - enough if you are using short bursts.

[ElFenrir]

Yeah, we never had a problem gas-venting burst fire pistols either. It takes up the slot, of course. But yeah, Personalized Grip works, as well.

And...

Heavy Pistol of choice(super Warhawk)+Bayonet Mount+Melee Hardening+Extended Barrel+Weapon Focus enchantment = Gun Blades!

This is what I'm talking about. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

You could also use a heavy SA pistol like the Predator to do the 'Hyperion' version. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)


Hmm...what would I do...

I'm more of a melee person than the guns...but if a character of mine is only going to one gun, i'd probably want to pimp it out.

Melee hardening is always nice. I mean, the a pair of SA/BF Personalized Grip Vented Melee Hardened Pistols are what you use for Firefight as far as we, and possibly many tables around the globe, are concerned. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I'd have to think about some great Melee stuff. Can't you get Personalized Grip for Melee as well? (don't have Arsenal in front of me.)

[Fortune]

Quote?

Here's one ...

The Weapon chapter of Arsenal was finished long before the errata revised flechettes, and though several of our playtesters caught it, it somehow slipped through various revisions and proof-readings. The Arsenal errata will reflect the revised flechette modifiers in SR4.

[Fortune]

Can't you get Personalized Grip for Melee as well?

Yep. It adds +1 to the user's melee Dice Pool.

[krakjen]

Raecor Sting : 6P(f) : +5
Ares Viper Slivergun : 8P(f) : +5
Remington Roomsweeper : 7P(f) : +5
Mossberg AM-CMDT : 9P(f) : +5
Remington 990 : 9P(f) : +5

Flechette Rounds : +2 : +5

Grenade; Fragmentation : 12P(f) : +5

Rocket; Fragmentation : 16P(f) : +5

Wait... that means special ammunitions are ignoring the base AP of the weapons?

So what, an MMG with flechettes would do the same damage as an assault rifle?
And APDS are not even modifying the Barrett damage code (well, not that I would mind)?

[reepneep]

Wait... that means special ammunitions are ignoring the base AP of the weapons?

So what, an MMG with flechettes would do the same damage as an assault rifle?
And APDS are not even modifying the Barrett damage code (well, not that I would mind)?

I've been wondering whether that was intentional or just an oversight as well. I always thought it would make more sense to apply the ammo's template to the weapon's base stats like they seem to on BBB p.157 Shooting Through Barriers.

This is my baby:
Smartlinked Ruger Thunderbolt w/ Personalized Grip, Extended Clip, Improved Rangefinder, Simple Firing Selection Change(FA), Advanced Safety, Tracking Tags, a Gas Vent 3 accessory and Custom Look 2: The grip is polished soapstone (the reddish-purple one). The metal, black and slightly shiny, is etched in a dull red with a pattern of brambles towards the back and transforms into a snake bearing it's fangs at the muzzle.

I've named him Kaa and regularly feed him corpsec rent-a-cops. I know that RAW says you're not supposed to put gas vents on pistols but I ignore that rule because it is silly.

[Rasumichin]

If you want a gunblade, don't use bayonets.
Take a melee weapon (like a claymore or nodachi, if you mean serious business, or a monosword if you need a free hand) and equip it with the under"barrel" weapon mod.
Arsenal precisely says that this is possible in the underbarrel weapon entry.

For style reasons (and a gunblade is all about posing around and showing off how effing steampunk you are, isn't it?), i'd choose an increased drum Warhawk as the gun part, but this only leaves you with 4 rounds.
However, this should be sufficient until you get into melle range and can start slicing up your enemies instead of just pumping them full of lead.

[MYST1C]

The Russian Federation also developed and produces the highly concealable OTs-38 which is standard issue for special forces agents. Besides it's compact size (almost a hold out), the OTS also has no flash and actually loads the rounds as a clip (basically as disposable speed loader).

OTs 38 Silent Revolver

Though you should mention that the OTs 38's silentness is achieved by using a very special and rare type of ammunition (SP-4, 7.62x41) that can be described as a round with a built-in silencer - the round has an oversized case that encloses the powder and traps the explosion, transfering the energy to the bullet through a moving piston.
This means that the shot is very silent as the powder gas never leaves the case or the gun, thus eliminating gun noise source #1. As the round is subsonic (200m/s or 655fps), noise source #2 doesn't matter anyway.

I'd be interested in SR stats for that ammo! Any gun firing such ammo (and it should be custom-built to accomodate the unusual case dimensions and recoil) would be effectively silenced without needing a silencer (meaning no concealment penalty) but damage should be very low (the described SP-4 ammo is slower than common pistols rounds like 9x19 [~400m/s, 1312fps], .45ACP [~250m/s, 820fps] or even .22LR [220m/s, 722fps], which to me is an example of Hold-Out Pistol ammo, though it is heavier than 9mm or .22) and armor penetration should be low.

[krakjen]

Russians have so much fun toys...
Folding anti-material sniper rifle (sorry small pic)
Silenced anti-material sniper rifle (yep, just like the Barrett 121)
Less original but still nice, a silenced assault rifle.
And they got a whole range of underwater guns. Here the assault rifle.
Yay, overkill gun. (Don't show this one to your players)

[CanRay]

I want a AGS-30... For, um, Prarie Dog Hunting.

[krakjen]

Awakened Prairie Dog Hunting?

[CanRay]

Oh no, you need something bigger for that.

Or load it with HEAT rounds.

[krakjen]

You DO realize that the Awakened Prairie Dog is only slightly larger than his mundane cousin and his only magical property is glowing in the dark?

[Kingboy]

You DO realize that the Awakened Prairie Dog is only slightly larger than his mundane cousin and his only magical property is glowing in the dark?

Oh sure, that's what they tell you. It's what they'd like you to beleive. How are we to know that glow isn't the by-product of some sort of super-lethal magical cancer-inducing radiation field? Best bet is to blow the little suckers to kingdom come before they get close enough to irradiate you to sterile oblivion I say. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

[toturi]

The fifth printing actually was released after the initial (PDF) release of Arsenal. The errors could not be corrected after that point due to it already being a good way through the print run.

On topic, my favorite two guns in the game are now Rugar Thunderbolt modded for SA & Gas-Vent 3 - 5 points of recoil comp, SA/BF modes, for 3 slots, leaving plenty of room for further modifications, and Barrette modded for Easy Breakdown & Ceramic/Plasteel Components (Full) - costs a shitlode, but well worth it.

Those are not as yet reflected in the online Errata. The fifth printing was released after the initial PDF release of Arsenal but it is still released before the print of Arsenal, regardless of the fact that Arsenal was in the middle of the print run.

It does not address the point that the 2 brand new flechette guns are still +2AP which would have been +5AP if the design decision was really to make all flechette weapons +5AP. Therefore the "errors" could be a reversal of the 5th printing decision.

[CanRay]

You DO realize that the Awakened Prairie Dog is only slightly larger than his mundane cousin and his only magical property is glowing in the dark?

You DO realize that I grew up in a Mining town, am stuck in the middle of the Praries, and miss the Earth Shattering Kaboom?

[Heath Robinson]

An AK-98 (or Alpha, if you'd rather) with Internal Smartgun (with Thermographic on the cam) and the Pilot upgrade. Tack on a database of vehicle and armor preferences, Facial Recognition, Image spotter and Vehicle Identification softwares. Add a second clip, and RC. Load different ammo loads in the two clips - one for hitting more armoured targets and another for hitting softer bodies. Command the pilot to identify the objects and targets it can see and switch to the anti-armour rounds when pointed at given classes of vehicles and body armour otherwise use the anti-infantry clip.

This design should be able to detect a group of enemies and switch the trigger to fire a grenade. It saves using that action to switch ammo types, it could be used (with a particular martial art) to take an aim action or some other potential use of the action (I can never remember what else you can use a free action for, maybe situational awareness?). Alternatively you could drop the second clip option and just use the pilot to switch to grenades based on target density or for anti-vehicle work.

With an underslung shotgun for flamethrower you could use it to autofire the shotgun if it passes over a target that is too close (laser rangefinder on the smartgun system).

Droneguns do not have to fly or crawl to be useful.

[Bashfull]

I enjoyed your thread, Raven, but I was a bit concerned about upgrading gas vent systems. I understood that, once gas vent systems were added, they couldn't be removed. How do you then upgrade an existing gas vent 2 to gas vent 3? Is this my erroneous understanding?

[WearzManySkins]

An AK-98 (or Alpha, if you'd rather) with Internal Smartgun (with Thermographic on the cam) and the Pilot upgrade. Tack on a database of vehicle and armor preferences, Facial Recognition, Image spotter and Vehicle Identification softwares. Add a second clip, and RC. Load different ammo loads in the two clips - one for hitting more armoured targets and another for hitting softer bodies. Command the pilot to identify the objects and targets it can see and switch to the anti-armour rounds when pointed at given classes of vehicles and body armour otherwise use the anti-infantry clip.

This design should be able to detect a group of enemies and switch the trigger to fire a grenade. It saves using that action to switch ammo types, it could be used (with a particular martial art) to take an aim action or some other potential use of the action (I can never remember what else you can use a free action for, maybe situational awareness?). Alternatively you could drop the second clip option and just use the pilot to switch to grenades based on target density or for anti-vehicle work.

With an underslung shotgun for flamethrower you could use it to autofire the shotgun if it passes over a target that is too close (laser rangefinder on the smartgun system).

Droneguns do not have to fly or crawl to be useful.

IIRC Sensor Targeting is
Sensor Test = Sensor + Perception Test(Sensor + Clearsight) using the Signature Table for mods, metahumans is a -3 mod.
Passive = Sensor Attribute + Gunnery
Active = Needs a successful sensor test then use Sensor Test with successes adding to the Gunnery test.

As of right now this is how RAW treats your weapon design, since the sensor rating is yet to be clarified/etc.......*shrugs*

WMS

[Heath Robinson]

IIRC Sensor Targeting is
Sensor Test = Sensor + Perception Test(Sensor + Clearsight) using the Signature Table for mods, metahumans is a -3 mod.
Passive = Sensor Attribute + Gunnery
Active = Needs a successful sensor test then use Sensor Test with successes adding to the Gunnery test.

As of right now this is how RAW treats your weapon design, since the sensor rating is yet to be clarified/etc.......*shrugs*

WMS

The intent is, in the end, to leave the firing options to the character. The design instead automatically switches between the two clips and between the primary weapon system and the underslung weapon according to target profiling. If you really want, it can also send AR target indicators to eyes or glasses.

It saves that free action you might otherwise use for switching the active clip (switch device mode) for running to the next piece of cover, for calling a shot (additional damage?) or dropping prone to avoid return fire.

If you decide to splash out, one can get Pilot 6, sensor softs at 6 and Vision Enhancement 3 for a DP of 9 (sensorsoft replaces normal DP, VE is a positive modifier) to identify a particular object (armour), vehicle or face (last is an ancilliary use for identifying soft targets explicitly) and then react to the identification. I cannot find anything that states that sensor perception runs along different modifiers to the normal perception mods, so we can tack on the active searching modifier of +3 to hit a DP of 12. I can't find any reason that Clearsight actually benefits this DP. You can expect roughly -4 in mods in a normal combat situation, so we knock the DP down to 8. When buying (because I don't want to roll a bunch of tests just to determine if my gun fires the right kind of ammo for me) it gets two hits. Sufficient to identify, I would say.

Your Pilot uses a free action to perceive in detail for the combat turn and then uses all further actions to switch device modes (doesn't need to control vehicle since it doesn't control movement) because it holds it action for the pass until its trigger is pulled. I think we can actually abstract this all away to "can select the right kind of ammunition for the job in most reasonable cases".

[WearzManySkins]

The intent is, in the end, to leave the firing options to the character. The design instead automatically switches between the two clips and between the primary weapon system and the underslung weapon according to target profiling. If you really want, it can also send AR target indicators to eyes or glasses.

It saves that free action you might otherwise use for switching the active clip (switch device mode) for running to the next piece of cover, for calling a shot (additional damage?) or dropping prone to avoid return fire.

If you decide to splash out, one can get Pilot 6, sensor softs at 6 and Vision Enhancement 3 for a DP of 9 (sensorsoft replaces normal DP, VE is a positive modifier) to identify a particular object (armour), vehicle or face (last is an ancilliary use for identifying soft targets explicitly) and then react to the identification. I cannot find anything that states that sensor perception runs along different modifiers to the normal perception mods, so we can tack on the active searching modifier of +3 to hit a DP of 12. I can't find any reason that Clearsight actually benefits this DP. You can expect roughly -4 in mods in a normal combat situation, so we knock the DP down to 8. When buying (because I don't want to roll a bunch of tests just to determine if my gun fires the right kind of ammo for me) it gets two hits. Sufficient to identify, I would say.

Your Pilot uses a free action to perceive in detail for the combat turn and then uses all further actions to switch device modes (doesn't need to control vehicle since it doesn't control movement) because it holds it action for the pass until its trigger is pulled. I think we can actually abstract this all away to "can select the right kind of ammunition for the job in most reasonable cases".

Sorry but per RAW Vision Enhancement 3 is not yet part of Sensors used for Sensor Targeting. What makes a sensor rating 3 from a sensor rating 6 has yet to be defined, but much promised by the devs.

RAW Page 162
Table : Signature Table.

Sensors:
To detect a person, critter, or a vehicle with sensors, the character/vehicle must make a successful Sensor + Perception Test (Sensor + Clearsight autosoft in the case of drones)..........Sensors are designed to detect the "signature" (emissions, composition, sound etc.) of other vehicles, so modifiers from the Signature Table apply to the detecting vehicles dice pool.

From that table Metahumans, critters are a -3 dice mod.

Clearsight autosoft is the only sensor soft available at this time. But the maximum rating for autosofts is 4.

WMS

[Bashfull]

This thread is going well, but I've got a few questions and requests:

Firstly, Raven has done remarkable work on his weapon mod thread, but I'm sure core rules say that once a gas vent system is fitted, it stays fitted, meaning upgrades to Gas Vent 3 are impossible.
Secondly, I am sure only larger weapons need chameleon coating, so the sneaky pistol he designed is quite as sneaky as he had hoped (anyways, it doesn't add to the concealability of the weapon; rather it stops the weapon from reducing your camo).
Thirdly, since I'm not GMing, I'm not allowed to disregard the rules, so I can't fit gas vents on pistols etc.

I'm playing a B&E specialist. I need something I can sneak through the front door, and something with more bang for when I come in through the roof/window/airconditioning. Any number crunchers want to help me out, please?

Edit: At present, I've got a Yamaha Sakura Fubuki with skinlink, smartlink and silencer and an Ingram Smartgun with Chameleon coating (goes with the suit), auto-adjusting barrel weight and sling. Comments welcome.

[Fortune]

Those are not as yet reflected in the online Errata. The fifth printing was released after the initial PDF release of Arsenal but it is still released before the print of Arsenal, regardless of the fact that Arsenal was in the middle of the print run.

It does not address the point that the 2 brand new flechette guns are still +2AP which would have been +5AP if the design decision was really to make all flechette weapons +5AP. Therefore the "errors" could be a reversal of the 5th printing decision.

I gave you an appropriate quote from Synner earlier in the thread concerning this subject as soon as you requested it.

[WearzManySkins]

Pilots are used in drone/vehicles, and such use the rules for drones/vehicles. Also the rating 6 pilot is beyond starting character generation. Rating 4 pilots are the max allowed by RAW. Also the max Response at character generation is 5.

If you are not using the Pilot and or its rating then, yes you the user can use the Mark 1 Eyeball rules with any vision enhancements.

WMS

[Muspellsheimr]

I'm playing a B&E specialist. I need something I can sneak through the front door, and something with more bang for when I come in through the roof/window/airconditioning. Any number crunchers want to help me out, please?

Pistol of your choice
- Ceramic/Plasteel Components, Level 3; 1 slot (Arsenal 150)
- Easy Breakdown; 1 (Manual) or 2 (Powered) slots (Arsenal 150)
- Internal Silencer; 2 Slots (Arsenal 153)
- Hi-C Plastic Rounds (Arsenal 34)

The idea is you wear it as jewelry, and it is undetectable by MAD scanners. Ammunition can be stored in a hollowed out boot heel or similar. -6 Perception to notice it firing. Best used with a Face.

Pistol of your choice
- Ceramic/Plasteel Components, Level 3; 1 slot (Arsenal 150)
- Chameleon Coating; 2 slots (Arsenal 150)
- Internal Silencer; 2 slots (Arsenal 153)
- Hi-C Plastic Rounds (Arsenal 34)

Undetectable by MAD scanners, and -4 (Heavy) or -6 (Light) concealability. -6 Perception to notice it firing. Does not require 2-3 rounds to assemble as Breakdown does, making it the preferred choice for Covert Ops that may go bad.

Either design leaves 1 or 2 slots open for mods of your choice. Smartlink/Skinlink is a good choice (use a pistol that comes smartlinked for Chameleon & Powered Breakdown to avoid overmodding)