Neo-Tokyo and right to bear arms Options

[Mäx]

In Corporate Enclaves it say on page 85

in the interests of public safety, adults
may bear any form of bladed weapon so long as it is not
concealed (this includes cyberimplant weapons).

Does that really mean that my character can walk trought central Tokyo with a claymore trapped in his back and nobody bothering him.

[RunnerPaul]

Does that really mean that my character can walk trought central Tokyo with a claymore trapped in his back and nobody bothering him.

Well, you may get a few people ask where the rest of your cosplay costume is.

[Backgammon]

Yes an no.

The character can't get arrested for it, but if he looks suspicious in any way (i.e. giant claymore stuck on your back), the authorities are liable to follow him around, harass him, etc.

Most people, if they carry anything at all, will be short swords or traditionnal japanese blades. As long as you fit in, carrying a blade will not be a problem.

[Ancient History]

If your troll wants to wander downtown with a nodachi to go clubbing, it's all good, but Highlander-style hide-it-in-the-trenchcoat is not. Corporate law can be very different on the subject, so sometimes they ask customers to check their blades when they enter Mitsuhama-mart or whatnot.

This is significantly different than in Seattle, where firearms and body armor are much more commonplace.

[CanRay]

Much different from Seattle. The Coroner finds out you weren't wearing even armoured clothing when you got shot, he puts down "Suicide" as the cause of death. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

I still have to go through Corporate Enclaves (Too much fun with Arsenal!), but wouldn't a Troll in Downtown Neo-Tokio going to get harassed for "Walking While Meta" anyways?

[Mäx]

If your troll wants to wander downtown with a nodachi to go clubbing, it's all good, but Highlander-style hide-it-in-the-trenchcoat is not. Corporate law can be very different on the subject, so sometimes they ask customers to check their blades when they enter Mitsuhama-mart or whatnot.

Cool, it just seemed little crazy to that in the interest of public safety people can carry any bladed weapon they want.

Oh and thaks to everyone for quick reaplies.

[Heath Robinson]

Much different from Seattle. The Coroner finds out you weren't wearing even armoured clothing when you got shot, he puts down "Suicide" as the cause of death. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

I still have to go through Corporate Enclaves (Too much fun with Arsenal!), but wouldn't a Troll in Downtown Neo-Tokio going to get harassed for "Walking While Meta" anyways?

Yep. Less so in 2070 when the metas are allowed to live in Japan without being dropped in their own equivalent of Battle Royale, but they still don't like them metas.

Cool, it just seemed little crazy to that in the interest of public safety people can carry any bladed weapon they want.

Oh and thaks to everyone for quick reaplies.

Consider that most public security groups will be okayed to carry firearms. The increased difficulty in apprehending criminals is not all that significant and allowing citizens to go armed will allow them to defend themselves better (criminals don't follow laws, y'see) and, at the very least, it's reassuring. It's also a cultural heritage thing, the Japanese like their swords.

Hell, the world likes Japans swords. I prefer swords made of better steel, but single-edged blades are cool.

[Snow_Fox]

Right you can carry a sword openly but if the locals don't like your look they might not want to deal with you:
"Sorry Oni san but I cannot help you we are closing for lunch now."
and
they just might call the polcie to politely ask what you're doing? A sword in your belt is not going to help much when that patrolman's buddy has an SMG leveled at you.

[Muspellsheimr]

Hell, the world likes Japans swords. I prefer swords made of better steel, but single-edged blades are cool.

You seem to imply that a Katana blade is inferior quality...

I'm not particularly fond of the weapons, but they are the most durable & sharp blades in the world. You simply do not get a higher quality blade than the Japanese Samurai sword. Of course, I am speaking of the actual weapons, not the mass-produced crap anyone can have.

[Jaid]

oh great, not one of these again... WotC flashbacks occuring now...

(as i understand it, the reason the swords are so carefully made is because the raw materials suck so bad. the swords themselves are good quality, but the materials they are made from? not so much).

[Hatspur]

So would you say that the authorities in Neo-Tokyo would bat an eye at a rapier or cavalry saber strapped to my belt? Is it just Japanese style blades that evade scrutiny? I understand the concealment, but a Nodachi and a Claymore have similar purposes and the differences lie in blade style and (obviously) weight.

[hobgoblin]

i recall reading that a specialist sword maker put a european style sword made with modern techniques thru the same test thats traditionally used to test japanese ones. iirc, the test showed that european ones could perform it just as well.

[Faelan]

Yet another example of Katana fever. Check the articles on this site for direct reference to comparisons between modern makers http://swordforum.com/ or for additional discussion amongst practitioner of western sword forms (which seem remarkably unbiased compared to discussions I have seen from the other side) http://www.thearma.org, the second site includes rather useful references to detailed books on the subject matter also. Most of the myth comes from specialist historians, who have no clue what they are talking about when it comes to metallurgy, sword making, or practical application of the tools.

[Jackstand]

So would you say that the authorities in Neo-Tokyo would bat an eye at a rapier or cavalry saber strapped to my belt? Is it just Japanese style blades that evade scrutiny? I understand the concealment, but a Nodachi and a Claymore have similar purposes and the differences lie in blade style and (obviously) weight.

I would expect that it's more a matter of how you're dressed and how you're acting, and, of course, whether or not you're human and japanese which would make more of a difference as to whether you're hassled than what sort of blade you have.

[hobgoblin]

and if you wearing a kimono the sword could very well be part of the dress...

kinda like how you cant carry a knife in public here in norway unless its part of the national costume.

[Shrike30]

It's my understanding that the great number of folds involved in traditional Katana-type blade creation were there to work out impurities in the metal, and to work in carbon.

High-purity, high-carbon steel isn't hard to get these days.

[Snow_Fox]

There's also use. Samurai swords have an aura about them for their sharpness and steel quality. the mystique of the great swordsman BUT for use and style european swords are more effective.

Just fencing style, in kendo a fighter stands with his arms fully extended and has to pump to strike. A western swordsman keeps his arms bent, so it can thrust forward. In Japan a few years ago they tried a tesat to show the supiriority of the asian sword style. Each time the european style swordsman won because of the basic stance. The Japanese fencer never go of a strike. Each time as he pumped to strike, the european thrust into his arms/torso.

[hyzmarca]

There is a video of something that here.

It isn't just the style in this case, its the training. Rigidly-defined sport combat doesn't really trains a person to excel in that particular sport but doesn't really prepare one to face techniques which don't conform to the rules of the sport. In the above video it is very obvious that the kendoka was in way over his head. He just wasn't prepared to deal with aggressive thrusting.

The error here isn't necessarily in the style but in his frame of mind and his footwork, particularly his frame of mind. You can see that he isn't at all prepared to deal with the aggressiveness of the fencer and ineffectually attempts to retreat when the fencer charges. Retreat was the absolutely worst thing he could do in that situation. A far better option would have been to void the thrust be stepping to the side and toward the fencer. Due to the fencer's strong commitment to the thrust he would have been unable to defend against a counterattack if the kendoka has simply voided the thrust by sidesteping.

When fighting with words in real life, the correct footwork and body position is most important because that's what keeps you alive. The kendoka in the video simply didn't have the foundation of footwork required to defend against a fast thrusting blade.

The fencer wasn't really prepared to deal with a slicing weapon, either, and left his head and shoulders extremely vulnerable. It was only his aggressiveness and the kendoka's retreat in response to that aggressiveness that saved him from a counterstrike to his head.

[Muspellsheimr]

Also, European blades are designed for power, and require a good deal of strength. Japanese blades are designed for finesse & speed, and are effective regardless of the user's strength.

A trained Japanese swordsman fighting with a Katana can do an equal amount of damage as that of a European swordsman fighting with a broadsword. The main difference is the broadsword requires a good amount of strength behind the swing to equal what a simple swing form a Katana is capable of. There is a reason in SR4 that the Katana has -1AP and the Sword does not - a Katana's blade when finished is sharpened to the molecular level. What the books don't represent is this should also increase the blade's damage.

[hyzmarca]

Also, European blades are designed for power, and require a good deal of strength. Japanese blades are designed for finesse & speed, and are effective regardless of the user's strength.

Huh?

A trained Japanese swordsman fighting with a Katana can do an equal amount of damage as that of a European swordsman fighting with a broadsword. The main difference is the broadsword requires a good amount of strength behind the swing to equal what a simple swing form a Katana is capable of.

What?

There is a reason in SR4 that the Katana has -1AP and the Sword does not - a Katana's blade when finished is sharpened to the molecular level. What the books don't represent is this should also increase the blade's damage.

Molecular?

[ludomastro]

Also, European blades are designed for power, and require a good deal of strength. Japanese blades are designed for finesse & speed, and are effective regardless of the user's strength.

A trained Japanese swordsman fighting with a Katana can do an equal amount of damage as that of a European swordsman fighting with a broadsword. The main difference is the broadsword requires a good amount of strength behind the swing to equal what a simple swing form a Katana is capable of. There is a reason in SR4 that the Katana has -1AP and the Sword does not - a Katana's blade when finished is sharpened to the molecular level. What the books don't represent is this should also increase the blade's damage.

Uh ... no.


Emphasis mine.

[hyzmarca]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olP_kwsEZ6w
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ema3lkqwZlY...feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FWXnK5UyRI...feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mu4Dr3B3Rg4...feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyQXLXRFFbg...feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlGIHSeG260...feature=related

These videos pretty much give you a good idea of the attitudes of police and citizens about open carry. On occasion, someone who doesn't listen to enough Conservative Talk Radio will get scared and call the police demanding that they do something, but this will just lead to a funny conversation to police who are annoyed at the caller rather than you, unless you're just a total jackass about it.


The big issue is social attitudes rather than the practicality of open carry. If you allow open carry you foster an enviroment in which citizens interact with the government and the police as equals and take their rights and duties seriously. If you disallow you, you create a situation where the citizens are either subservient to government officials and police or are openly antagonistic to them.

With Neo-Tokyo's open carry law in regard's to blade, they are very much promoting a return to the Samurai ethos -or a highly romanticized version of it. The idea is of the citizen-samurai is very favorable to the corporations as it produces both a sense of duty and responsibility in the citizens who choose to openly carry and serves as a free advertisement that encourage others to carry as well. This in turn means greater loyalty, less anti-social behavior, and more people reporting anti-social behavior; it will also be much more difficult for outside powers and criminal organizations to intimidate citizens or spread terror.

[Heath Robinson]

You seem to imply that a Katana blade is inferior quality...

I'm not particularly fond of the weapons, but they are the most durable & sharp blades in the world. You simply do not get a higher quality blade than the Japanese Samurai sword. Of course, I am speaking of the actual weapons, not the mass-produced crap anyone can have.

Historically Japanese steel was crap. It only needed to be crap, they had too little iron for making suits of armour out of it. The blade design is a work of genius, but it's a design that compensates - in many ways - for the failings of the material from which it is made.

Someone mentioned the folding thing; I am of the understand that they were attempting to stretch steel (which was expensive to make for them) with iron.

Also, European blades are designed for power, and require a good deal of strength. Japanese blades are designed for finesse & speed, and are effective regardless of the user's strength.

Wapanese lies. Rapier, dude - it epitomises the finesse style of combat. And, in actual fact, Sword and Board combats between talented practitioners were generally fast paced finesse affairs. A lot of western sword designs actually lightened the blade in a way that sacrificed the minimum of the blades strength, by thinning the central portion of the blade. This is because the blades had to be balanced for thrusts (most efficient way to penetrate armour), where a heavier blade is worse because your arm is entirely outstretched and at its weakest.

Note that Japanese swordsmanship does not include many thrusts.

[Backgammon]

edit: removed snippy comment about katanophiles.

[Snow_Fox]

Beyond the fact the katana armed fencer wasn't prepared for the agressive western fencer, the western swords use a thrust, which the katana, in a sweeping stroke would have tropuble evading. A good thrust should be able to disengage under the parry of the katana.

Do not be so sure about a western style fencer not being able to block. Sure a fencer with a foil if not use to defending from a cut but someone with a sabre is.

Most modern sabrists use the very blocky "Hungarian" style introduced in the 1956 Olympics. They seem to forget their points and would give the japanese swordsman more of a chance but get a man with a sabre, prefering the "Italian" style, introduced in the 1924 Olympics, where it is held point forward like a foil but the smwordsman is still use to parrying cuts and the asian style is toast.

Don't get me wrong. The katana, a true one and not mass produced tourist stuff, is a beautiful , elegant weapon capable of doing great harm and imortalized in Japanese art and litterature, but in a practical terms it doesn't stand up. Part of the mythology came about because that was all they had for weapons. After the unification of Japan under the Tokugawa shogunate around 1603, They did away with guns. On the battlefield the Samurai were very upset how a commoner with a musket could down the lfower of nobility. so instead of adapting tactics as the europeans did, they devolved moving their military back a step so they coul have Samurai still as the masters of the fierld for another 2050 years. In that period swords became mythologisted while in the west firearms entered myth, The kentucky Rifle, the Brown Bess, Colt 'peacemaker' or Winchester rifle spring to mind.

To go back on topic, any one with ablade is going to get a funny look, legal or not you know the person is carrying and it makes you more careful around them. An oxidental blade might be legal but it is still alien and in xenophobic Tokyo it is going to make the people even more on edge. it's different and dangerous and not japanese.