Spellcasting Foci usage, Can multiple Foci be used Options

[Renraku]

Given that Spellcasting foci can be used for the act of casting or withheld for drain tests. (I cannot verify, I am with out my BBB).

Could a player use one spellcasting foci for casting and a 2nd for drain tests in the same round?

[WeaverMount]

You can use one focus per test. In casting 1 spell you could use a spell casting focus, power focus, and a sustaining focus.

[Renraku]

That concept I understand, but specifically can a character use a force 3 spellcasting foci for casting the spell and then using a second force 3 spellcasting foci to resist drain.

[WeaverMount]

I'd think that would be a go. The only restriction I'm aware of on foci use is 1 per test.

[Aaron]

Er ... unless it's been changed, the text goes something like "Spellcasting foci add their Force to a magician’s Spellcasting and Ritual Spellcasting dice pools. These dice may be used to cast a spell more effectively as long as it of the category appropriate to the focus." That'd be on page 191 in your hymnal (with the 1.5 errata).

[Backgammon]

Relevant quotes are:

Regardless of the number of foci a magician may possess, only one focus may add its Force to any single dice pool.

Spellcasting foci add their Force to a magician’s Spellcasting and Ritual Spellcasting dice pools. These dice may be used to cast a spell more effectively or withheld to help the magician with Drain.

Technically, Spellcasting and Drain resistance are seperate pools, so the first quote would make 1 focus per test kosher.

The second quote says you can effectively split your Focus dice between the two tests. But this does not contradict the rule of 1 focus per test.

So I believe you are correct, you can use a Focus for Spellcasting and another Focus for resisting.

That's very interesting....

[Jaid]

Er ... unless it's been changed, the text goes something like "Spellcasting foci add their Force to a magician’s Spellcasting and Ritual Spellcasting dice pools. These dice may be used to cast a spell more effectively as long as it of the category appropriate to the focus." That'd be on page 191 in your hymnal (with the 1.5 errata).

in a manner of speaking, it *has* been changed.

specifically, it *used* to say you could withold the bonus dice from a spellcasting focus to use in the drain resistance test. it is widely thought that said rule (which apparently was a c/p error, i think) should still exist however, since it actually gives a reason for the spellcasting focus to exist at all.

(on a side note, iirc there are other focus types that still say you can withold dice to add to drain resist i think... not 100% sure though)

[Backgammon]

You are correct -

These dice may be used to cast a spell more effectively as long as it of the category appropriate to the focus.

So you can't even use the Focus to help with resist drain, so nevermind a debate on whether or not you can use 2 Foci.

Ahh well...

[ArkonC]

Which makes investing in a Power Focus a much better choice, IMO...

[Fortune]

Power Focus can't be used for Drain at all. Only for tests that include the Magic Attribute.

The little bit in the Errata is highly debatable, and may itself be in need of errata, as the same 'fix' was not made for Binding and Summoning Foci.

[Aaron]

As it should be, IMHBDAO. Phenomenal cosmic power, itty-bitty living space. Drain codes (at least for spells) are pretty darn low as it is.

[Fortune]

Just to avoid confusion, the Errata to which I was referring concerns only the Spellcasting Focus. It doesn't relate to the Power Focus, which I agree should be left exactly the way it is.

[FrankTrollman]

I'm not fond of the Spellcasting Focus Errata, as indeed it makes there be no reason for anyone to ever have one.

-Frank

[ArkonC]

Well Fortune, it may be debatable, but it is the way RAW works now...
So spellcasting foci really don't do anything Power foci don't do, hence no reason to invest in one...
That being said, we still allow them to add to drain tests, to give them a reason to exist...

[Muspellsheimr]

Power Focus can't be used for Drain at all. Only for tests that include the Magic Attribute.

The little bit in the Errata is highly debatable, and may itself be in need of errata, as the same 'fix' was not made for Binding and Summoning Foci.

Summoning foci add their Force in dice to any attempt to summon the appropriate type of spirit. These dice may be used for the Summoning Test, as long as the type of spirit is appropriate to the focus.


Binding foci add their Force to the magician's Magic + Binding dice pool when binding an appropriate type of spirit. A binding focus can also add its dice when the magician is re-binding a spirit.

Summoning & Binding foci can not be used to resist drain. The reason the foci exist is because they are cheaper to bond than Power foci (although I believe they are still to expensive in comparison).

[Fortune]

Not in my book ...

Summoning foci add their Force in dice to any attempt to summon the appropriate type of spirit. These dice may be used for the Summoning Test, or they may be withheld to help resist Drain.

Binding foci add Force to the magician’s Magic + Binding dice pool when binding an appropriate type of spirit, or the extra dice may be withheld to help resist Drain. A binding focus can also add its dice when the magician is re-binding a spirit.

[Renraku]

Thanks for all the input.

One of my PC's is going for two spell casting foci: one for casting and one for drain. This struck me as alittle unbalanced until I caught the hit cap based on force of the spell. From what im hearing he is dumping resources into 2 foci when he should only need one for drain if thats his intent.

[Muspellsheimr]

@Fortune: Notice my quote specifies Fifth Printing.

[Fortune]

Shrug. My book is the 3rd printing, and I have the 5th version of the Errata, which does not reflect the changes you describe in any way. Strange.

[Muspellsheimr]

Shrug. My book is the 3rd printing, and I have the 5th version of the Errata, which does not reflect the changes you describe in any way. Strange.

It is not odd - the errata was simply not updated with the Fifth printing changes. It has been covered many times on the forums, particularly regarding Flechette/Fragmentation AP. During the most recent chat, it was said that the changes were in the errata, but that was later rebuked on the forums by Adam.

As was mentioned in the chat, errata 1.8 will come out after Unwired is 100% final and sent to press, which should be within a couple weeks. Peter misspoke about 5th printing being equal to errata 1.5.

[Fortune]

Yeah, I'm not stupid, but thanks. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

The Spellcasting Foci change was made in the fourth edition of the Errata. No changes were made to the other two Focus types I mentioned in that or the subsequent Errata released.

So, yes, in my opinion it is indeed strange.

[Muspellsheimr]

Hopefully it will be clarified in a few weeks with eratta 1.8. Along with an explanation why Spellcasting Foci bonding cost is 50% that of a Power Foci, but with aprox. 7.5% of the usefulness (assuming it remains you cannot use them for Drain).

[Fortune]

The thing is, they definitely would have their use if they were left how they were originally written. They need to have a function other than that of a poor man's Power Focus in order to really be useful, and being usable to resist Drain makes them worthy of consideration.

[Sombranox]

So, yes, in my opinion it is indeed strange.

It is strange, though not the first time there's been differences in different printings that in no way were ever mentioned in any kind of errata.

The issue of cranial commlinks and sim modules from http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=20549 for instance had half the printings showing one thing and half showing the other.

That stupidity aside, I could have sworn I remembered one of the devs posting that all drain handling had been intended to be removed from foci to help "streamline the system", though I can't for the life of me find the post, so I could be completely misremembering.

That said, it's one of those "if it's stupid, use your own rule" type of things for me. I _like_ category casting and conjuring foci being able to help resist drain, like most have said, so was just throwing in my +1 for house ruling it and pointing out that it's not the first time of strangeness between printings.