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> Gear builder, And other time saving files
Chrysalis
post Jun 2 2008, 11:46 AM
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Please find the newest file here:
http://www.2shared.com/file/4165672/9a7465..._CA_251008.html

Version notes:
The excel workbook is in its near final stages.

The workbook does not have as of yet Cyberware/Bioware/Geneware/Nanoware from Arsenal.
At the moment the Advanced Lifestyle Options have remained a work in progress and needs input for them to be developed further.

The workbook comprises of information collated from 4th edition Shadowrun books:
Core Book
Arsenal
Augmentation
Street Magic
Unwired
Runners Companion

26/10/08: Updated the resources file with the errata released for Arsenal. Updated missing items. Fixed the vehicle mod sheet to be used with vehicles.

----


Hi all,

I have recently been using quite a bit of excel in making files, character sheets and more specifically gear lists. Last week I finished in digitising into excel form all of Arsenal except for weapons and vehicles. This led me to an interesting dilemma.

It has to do with the use of copyrighted material:
1. Can I even make such a spreadsheet?
2. Can I place it in such a place that it can be publically accessed?
3. Would copied descriptions of items be considered infringing on copyright?
4. What other matters should I have taken into consideration before making such a file?


After these questions have been answered can I talk about projects such as weapons, armor, cyberwear, vehicle builders that would greatly increase the speed in which such items are created. If, however, such files would be in breach of copyright I would of course not create them.
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Dashifen
post Jun 2 2008, 01:37 PM
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1. You can make the spreadsheet because you own the book. Thus, as far as I understand it, you can use the information within the book in whatever way you want.

2. I suppose you can until such a time as you receive a cease and desist letter from Catalyst saying you can't. This is a bit of a weird spot, too, because various character generators and other such systems do contain information about the game, but the key thing to remember is that what ever you put online should be reasonably difficult to understand without also owning the books. That way, the freely available information online doesn't invalidate the ability for Catalyst to make cash.

3. Here's where you would approach invalidating the books. If everything in the books is online, why buy the books?

4. Phase of the moon. Always take the phase of the moon into account. Damn, dirty werewolves....... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/silly.gif)

As always, I'm not a lawyer, so if you require honest to god legal advice, talk to someone who is.
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JeffSz
post Jun 2 2008, 01:51 PM
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1) "Fair use" would imply that you can do whatever you want if you're the only one using it. If you're going to distribute it though, see #2:

2) Just ask yourself: "Could someone use this file to play the game, without buying/reading the rulebooks?" If the answer is no, then you're not detracting from CGL's sales and you should be laughing.


3)There are lots of fan-created excel files full of character-gen stuff, and as long as you keep it free of gear descriptions and too many mechanics that aren't related to chargen, you're fine.

DO: Create a spreadsheet with drop-down lists of gear to choose from and each item's cost, that automatically calculates the total cost for all your gear. Go ahead and include Availability rating.
DO NOT: Include the descriptions of the gear so that someone could create a character entirely without ever having the core book in his hand (or on his computer in PDF format).

4) I would suggest a disclaimer at the bottom of your excel file, similar to the "WizKids, Inc has sole ownership of the names, logo, artwork, marks, photographs, sounds, audio, video and/or any proprietary material used in connection with the game Shadowrun." at the bottom of the Dumpshock forums... but be careful not to use any official logos/artwork, since you don't have permission from WizKids.

Also, I'm not familiar with any gear selection spreadsheets, but for every other aspect of the game, there are already excellent projects out there. I would suggest looking into those before creating something, to avoid duplicating effort. It's possible the project's creator might be looking for a hand adding gear, or something.

The one I use for chargen is here: http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?show...=19799&st=0
The first link in the post will download the most recent version, which is updated for everything in Augmentation, and I think additions from Arsenal are in the works.
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Chrysalis
post Jun 3 2008, 09:37 PM
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Look down for updated file.
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Mordinvan
post Jun 3 2008, 10:42 PM
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does anyone know if dageann's character generator was updated to include arsenal and augmentation?, as that is so far my favorite program for making new character concepts in
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Cthulhudreams
post Jun 4 2008, 12:32 AM
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Why didn;t you include guns? Just curious. Otherwise looks useful.
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Chrysalis
post Jun 4 2008, 05:55 AM
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Weapons comprise of 9 pages in total and are often customised. It is also the same reason why there is no vehicle listing. I was actually thinking on having separate sheets that would cover weapons and vehicles.

A smaller scale function would be developing a commlink builder.

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Cthulhudreams
post Jun 4 2008, 06:01 AM
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If yu've got it I'd strongly suggest releasing it. For the majority of characters they just need to tick the 'gun' box with something - like an Ingram Smartgun X or a Ares Alpha or whatever. Same for vehicles. It's okay if riggers or sammies then go on to break out the extra super confusing rulebook/sheet/tool later on, most people don't need it.
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jklst14
post Jun 4 2008, 12:54 PM
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Thanks for sharing! Looks nice.
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Chrysalis
post Jun 4 2008, 12:58 PM
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At the moment weapons have been added to the workbook. All that is missing is the vehicles and drones.

However, this is becoming more of a library at this point. Perhaps this instead should be utilised as a library on which a character generation excel could be based on. Anyone here on Dumpshock make one of the more commonly used character generation workbooks?

-Chrysalis
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Cthulhudreams
post Jun 4 2008, 01:50 PM
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I like it. Once you release the version with guns I can rapidly work down the list and check all the boxes like "gas mask" and "Smartgun X" THe drop down menu select method in the spreadsheet I use is actually counterproductive on very long lists - navigating through the cyber list is a PITA

A cool additional feature would be if it automagically caculated the encumberance for the armour you selected
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Dumori
post Jun 4 2008, 09:15 PM
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Looks good are you adding modifications or not as that would also be useful. Looks like ill be using this along with the char gen spreed sheet to manage the gear and just adding the total to the sheet.
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Dashifen
post Jun 5 2008, 05:37 PM
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To facilitate further work by you all, and at the request of Crysalis, I moved this thread to Community Projects.
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Chrysalis
post Jun 5 2008, 06:33 PM
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Thank you Dashifen (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I have to honor this move with a new file for you to look at:

See last post

No it does not include vehicle modifications, since I think that would involve a vehicle builder.

Never built a vehicle in Shadowrun so I would not know how to create one.

-Chrysalis
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Dumori
post Jun 6 2008, 10:48 AM
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There is already a vehicle builder for SR4 but I am unsure of where I found it. You need to change the max bow ratings from 12 to higher as you can reach such epic heights of strength. Another problem the stats for (F) weapons need to be changed to AP +5 as its now changed to that. also i find the custom parts quite hard to get my head round. but i thing youd be making a vehicle and a weapon mod program i could be only a small problem. I'll have more feedback when I hand this out to my group in a week or 2. One last thing you don't provide for multipal rating equipment or more that one suite of modded armor if they need to use different ratings of the same modification.
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Chrysalis
post Jun 6 2008, 12:06 PM
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The new version has the +5 AP for flechettes and 30 maximum strength rating for the bows.

This is more of a library of data. Originally this grew out of our team demands for a team gear builder. Very good for building team gear but maybe not as useful when having to design individual weaponry or equipment.

I would actually prefer that there would be seperate armor and weapons design spreadsheets for such a purpose, an initial one is the custom firearms examples one.

You can have as many none firearms accessories but only one for under,top, and barrel, which should make any weapon building easier.


Armor like with all rating dependent availabilities and costs are calculated by choosing from the drop down list the right rating. As most devices ahve a limited rating it should not allow anything further.

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Dumori
post Jun 6 2008, 03:58 PM
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But what a bout the rule for modifications on page 148 of Arsenal. As far as i know there is no sheet or tool to make this quicker/ easier. I like your work its really good and save me the time of doing the same for my group after I finish my end of year exams.

Edit:
just had a quick idea adding a page reference for the gear would allow you to find the info about it quicker this would be a useful addition and may or may not take to long to add in.
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Chrysalis
post Jun 7 2008, 09:32 AM
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Never fear. I am planning on adding information that is found in the descriptions to the notes section, but first off page numbers, which will be done tomorrow. I am also working on making a similar type of manuscript for Augmentation with page numbers as well.

Page numbers will be in the form:

pppSR4
Shadowrun 4

pppArs
Arsenal

pppAug
Augmentation

pppStM
Street Magic


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Dumori
post Jun 7 2008, 09:19 PM
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Looks good. If you need a hand with anything after next week I'll lend a hand as my exams will be over ^_^
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Chrysalis
post Jun 10 2008, 04:34 PM
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Right.

The new version of the SR4 gear list can be found in the latest post.

Updated the software part of the workbook.

Added reference pages.

Added descriptions of game related modifiers of gear from the Core book.

Redesigned the workbook to be more pleasing to the eye.

The next challenge is adding information to the notes section from Arsenal. At the moment the firearms section is partially complete. However, before I continue with that section I need help in coming up with a better way to mark what accessories a weapon comes with and how it can be modified. If it can at all.


I also need people to test the file and make sure that sums are tallied correctly and that prices are correct.
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Chrysalis
post Jun 11 2008, 06:38 AM
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I was thinking about a way to facilitate faster customising of weapons. So you have your usual stats and then in the notes section you have:

| weapon mod I| location | slots | cost (+xx) | weapon mod II| location | slots | cost (+xx) | slots used /6 | modifiable (y/n) | notes |

What do you think?
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RobertB
post Jun 12 2008, 07:13 PM
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Great sheet! Very comprehensive except for one category...magical equipment. Lodge, binding, enchanting materials, foci, spell formulas, that kind of thing. In any event, I'm using and loving the sheet. Keep up the great work!
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Chrysalis
post Jun 12 2008, 09:11 PM
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Oh wow a response! I have to say that it was not easy to make me typing away busily from book back to computer.

Does Street Magic have in the back all of the magical items? I don't own that book you see so obviously I cannot add them.

Also it is missing vehicles mods and weapon mods, but that is not really the scope of this sheet, except just getting the existing weapon mods already with each weapon in a more comprehensive manner.

My plan is just to make it as comprehensive as possible and also portable as possible, so you can just copy and paste any necessary items and equipment.
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Chrysalis
post Jun 13 2008, 06:24 AM
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Duplicate post.

-Chrysalis
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RobertB
post Jun 13 2008, 02:18 PM
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Sure, I understand. If you don't have the book, you can't get the info, but what about the magic item costs from the basic rules (on page 340)? Can you add those easily?
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